Re: Antoine Griezmann Appreciation Thread

[Unique]

It can't be that hard to understand that when dealing with racism, there is no equivalence between black and white and this argument which your emplyong never works.

Posing as black is not a problem because you are posing as someone else, but because there's a massive history of stereotypical and oppressive representation of blacks in the US which was perpetrated by blackface representation.

That's the thing one needs to argue about, not your silly sophistics worthy of a five year old.

Your question would be appropriate if black people had enslaved white people too, for hundreds of years, with all that entails. THEN we could have arguments of equivalence.

you do know that's lots of black people also enslaved other black people as well don't you. when you see that movie poster and griezmann in a party costume you see slavery. all I see is a white man making a joke and 2 black guys doing the same. it depends on how you want to see things. the way people get offended these days I'm surprised we have any stand up comics left in the world

Racism is all about context. Is it that hard to understand. Colorism is also a huge problem in a lot black communities and if black people did that, then it would be comparable since there's racist history in regards to that subject.

White people haven't been oppresed, which is why it's racist. Your argument to counterpoint this is that black people are racist towards other black people? I don't know what your point is here.

so the bottom line is a white man dressing up as a black man as a joke is racist but 2 black guys dressing up as white woman for a comedy film is not racist. my opinion is none of them are racist its all a bit of fun.

[Warrior]

Agreed with Unique

People should wear looser thongs nowadays

[Luca]

Really surprised to see Unique is on the wrong end of the race argument given his previous, equal minded and considerate responses to everyone’s view and his deep and caring understanding that certain things are offensive even if they don’t offend you. It’s not a matter of being sensitive but only realizing that the world looks and feels different depending on which shoes you wear.

Blackface is a big no, as in never, not even once. Robert Downey Jr. got a pass in Tropic Thunder because he’s Iron Man and gave us the full retard argument.

Griezmann isn’t being racist. Racism is the intentional differential treatment of others on the basis of their race or an innate disposition. Griezmann is being insensitive and clearly, like brother unique, doesn’t realize it. It’s just another reminder that athletes aren’t geniuses.

[Freeza]

Really surprised to see Unique is on the wrong end of the race argument given his previous, equal minded and considerate responses to everyone’s view and his deep and caring understanding that certain things are offensive even if they don’t offend you. It’s not a matter of being sensitive but only realizing that the world looks and feels different depending on which shoes you wear.

Blackface is a big no, as in never, not even once. Robert Downey Jr. got a pass in Tropic Thunder because he’s Iron Man and gave us the full retard argument.

Griezmann isn’t being racist. Racism is the intentional differential treatment of others on the basis of their race or an innate disposition. Griezmann is being insensitive and clearly, like brother unique, doesn’t realize it. It’s just another reminder that athletes aren’t geniuses.

Robert Downey got a pass because of the context. It wasn't okay for him to do it and it was an overall criticism of both acting and casual racism and inconsiderateness, which his scenes with Brandon T. Jackson helped establish. If it was never mentioned on the other hand.

More like Joel Edgerton as Ramses in Exodus

[farfan]

I remember the time prince harry went to a party dressed as a Nazi. the back lash was bad yet harry is in no way a nazi and does all kinds of charity work all over the world so maybe we should wait to see if griezmann is a racist twat.

In this case, the context is an 80s costume party in France or Spain, which we should keep in mind when judging this nonsense.

"Blackface" wasn't even a thing in most of the world. American culture is so influential that people are even importing stereotypes from there and conforming to what's politically correct in the US.

In the past few years, I've heard French kids mention white people's unseasoned chicken and black people's supposed love of watermelon and fried chicken, neither of those stereotypes makes sense in France.

[Unique]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

[Nishankly]

I remember the time prince harry went to a party dressed as a Nazi. the back lash was bad yet harry is in no way a nazi and does all kinds of charity work all over the world so maybe we should wait to see if griezmann is a racist twat.

In this case, the context is an 80s costume party in France or Spain, which we should keep in mind when judging this nonsense.

"Blackface" wasn't even a thing in most of the world. American culture is so influential that people are even importing stereotypes from there and conforming to what's politically correct in the US.

1000% agree about the importing stereotypes from the US to other countries.

[Luca]

Really surprised to see Unique is on the wrong end of the race argument given his previous, equal minded and considerate responses to everyone’s view and his deep and caring understanding that certain things are offensive even if they don’t offend you. It’s not a matter of being sensitive but only realizing that the world looks and feels different depending on which shoes you wear.

Blackface is a big no, as in never, not even once. Robert Downey Jr. got a pass in Tropic Thunder because he’s Iron Man and gave us the full retard argument.

Griezmann isn’t being racist. Racism is the intentional differential treatment of others on the basis of their race or an innate disposition. Griezmann is being insensitive and clearly, like brother unique, doesn’t realize it. It’s just another reminder that athletes aren’t geniuses.

Robert Downey got a pass because of the context. It wasn't okay for him to do it and it was an overall criticism of both acting and casual racism and inconsiderateness, which his scenes with Brandon T. Jackson helped establish. If it was never mentioned on the other hand.

More like Joel Edgerton as Ramses in Exodus

I was joking about Downey’s role which was satirical and of course contextually fine

Good shout about Ramses

[Freeza]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

This guy really does have bad takes for days

[Hapless_Hans]

you do know that's lots of black people also enslaved other black people as well don't you. when you see that movie poster and griezmann in a party costume you see slavery. all I see is a white man making a joke and 2 black guys doing the same. it depends on how you want to see things. the way people get offended these days I'm surprised we have any stand up comics left in the world

Racism is all about context. Is it that hard to understand. Colorism is also a huge problem in a lot black communities and if black people did that, then it would be comparable since there's racist history in regards to that subject.

White people haven't been oppresed, which is why it's racist. Your argument to counterpoint this is that black people are racist towards other black people? I don't know what your point is here.

so the bottom line is a white man dressing up as a black man as a joke is racist but 2 black guys dressing up as white woman for a comedy film is not racist. my opinion is none of them are racist its all a bit of fun.

Yes. In these cases, I think so too.

But still, you need to understand the potential of racism when a white person impersonates a black person, and for that you need to understand the reality of historical racism. This representation of blackness through whites has a history and is tied to the way blacks were oppressed. This is not the case the other way round.

I'll need to you to pay attention now, because I'm only going to explain this once.
This is a very important point IMO as I'm *bleep* tired of getting these counterarguments like yours, also from libertarians and such. You're a clever guy so I know you can understand this, and this is not about online banter.

Your argument is an "IN AN IDEAL WORLD" argument.
It assumes, there just happens to be 'white' people and 'black' people, with those labels entailing no other difference, or history, or power relations.
In this ideal world you would be right. It would be same whether a 'black' person or a 'white' person does it. There would be equivalence.

Now the question you have to answer is: Are we living in an ideal world?

Specifically, if we take a look at the reality of what happened in the world in, say, the last 400 years, in terms of black people, white people, their relationship, -- are we living in an ideal world?
Where 'black' and 'white' are just innocent equivalent labels?

I think you'll come to the conclusion that we are not. Shit is complicated, and has a history.

In this complicated, less than ideal world, with its history of imbalance, where the concept of race has always been used as a tool for exploitation, your argument does not work, and the naivety with which it is often employed can become offensive very quickly.
Please try to acknowledge that.

[Unique]

what about this guy does anyone think this is racist.

[Hapless_Hans]

Sasha Baron Cohen's stuff has actually always been often pretty borderline. Walking a VERY fine line between using stereotypes and being stereotyping itself.

[Unique]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

This guy really does have bad takes for days

my point was the hypocricy in the world today is shocking.

[Nishankly]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

Because the people who were oppressed during Giza don't face the same oppression now. They live harmoniously. But that's not exactly the case in America yet.

Eminem is a white rapper, He has never used the n word in any of his songs while all his black compatriots do. Why? Because he knows its off limits, He can't say it. Don't know why is it so hard to understand.

When we talk about confederates and Nazi's, Some who faced the oppression are still alive and most of the current people still face similar problems it so its not okay.

I completely agree with people jumping on things very quickly but a better example would be assuming the religion or motive of a man before a crime or an act of terrorism etc.

Back on topic now

[Warrior]

Well if you watch Borat (especially the beginning of the film) it's pure racism, much more than what Griezmann did

Them good ol double standards

If Griezmann's disguise was meant as mockery, then it wouldn't be unacceptable. Unacceptable i say. Sadly it seems Internet avengers care less about putting things into perspective than being offended and splash their inner rage on everything that is not 100% fairy tale tolerance.

[Unique]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

Because the people who were oppressed during Giza don't face the same oppression now. They live harmoniously. But that's not exactly the case in America yet.

Eminem is a white rapper, He has never used the n word in any of his songs while all his black compatriots do. Why? Because he knows its off limits, He can't say it. Don't know why is it so hard to understand.

When we talk about confederates and Nazi's, Some who faced the oppression are still alive and most of the current people still face similar problems it so its not okay.

I completely agree with people jumping on things very quickly but a better example would be assuming the religion or motive of a man before a crime or an act of terrorism etc.

Back on topic now

because telling a white man he cant say a word and telling a black guy it is ok for him to say it is racist in its self and only adds to the race problem. how racist would it be if the world said we have a word that white people can say but black people will get arrested and charged if they say it. basically you have a law that separates blacks from whites. how can you expect everyone to treat each other the same no matter what colour they are when the law makers separate black people and white people.

[Hapless_Hans]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

Because the people who were oppressed during Giza don't face the same oppression now. They live harmoniously. But that's not exactly the case in America yet.

Eminem is a white rapper, He has never used the n word in any of his songs while all his black compatriots do. Why? Because he knows its off limits, He can't say it. Don't know why is it so hard to understand.

When we talk about confederates and Nazi's, Some who faced the oppression are still alive and most of the current people still face similar problems it so its not okay.

I completely agree with people jumping on things very quickly but a better example would be assuming the religion or motive of a man before a crime or an act of terrorism etc.

Back on topic now

because telling a white man he cant say a word and telling a black guy it is ok for him to say it is racist in its self and only adds to the race problem. how racist would it be if the world said we have a word that white people can say but black people will get arrested and charged if they say it. basically you have a law that separates blacks from whites. how can you expect everyone to treat each other the same no matter what colour they are when the law makers separate black people and white people.

I can't believe you don't get what's the problem with the word in question and what's the problems with its usage
I made a long post extra for you
It covers also this topic.
You're treating the word as if it's a neutral word. Is it a neutral word?
It's really not hard to understand. If you don't try, I have to assume you don't mind being a guy who's ignorant to racism.

[Nishankly]

I think people just jump on things without thinking these days. its like the confederate flag. people said ban it because it represents slavery. if we are going to ban things that are linked to slavery when are we going to knock down the great pyramids of giza instead of using them to make money from tourists. in America they banned a tv progrom from the 70s because a car had the flag on its roof. yet in America you have rap songs and movies coming out every week with the n word used every 3 lines. the n word has as much to do with what went on years ago as the con flag did. why don't they also ban the movies and songs.

Because the people who were oppressed during Giza don't face the same oppression now. They live harmoniously. But that's not exactly the case in America yet.

Eminem is a white rapper, He has never used the n word in any of his songs while all his black compatriots do. Why? Because he knows its off limits, He can't say it. Don't know why is it so hard to understand.

When we talk about confederates and Nazi's, Some who faced the oppression are still alive and most of the current people still face similar problems it so its not okay.

I completely agree with people jumping on things very quickly but a better example would be assuming the religion or motive of a man before a crime or an act of terrorism etc.

Back on topic now

because telling a white man he cant say a word and telling a black guy it is ok for him to say it is racist in its self and only adds to the race problem. how racist would it be if the world said we have a word that white people can say but black people will get arrested and charged if they say it. basically you have a law that separates blacks from whites. how can you expect everyone to treat each other the same no matter what colour they are when the law makers separate black people and white people.

My final post on this. Its because it was INVENTED by white people to be used as derogatory term against them. So you can't use it, I can't use it. They can use the way they want since they've suffered through it. Can't believe its so hard.

[zigra]

So, to be fair, the blackface taboo is mostly a US thing. If anything aglosaxon world. Is it fair to expect a French-Spaniard to abide by the same standards when he's probably not even aware that it is a taboo thing in certain countries?

I guess HE should probably know it because from what I've read he's pretty much into american culture, hip hop, basketball and stuff. Also an advised top athelete.

As for a general french-spaniard I'd actually agree. Matter of fact if I ask around my friends most people won't know what blackface is. If I go to carnival I will see people do this. Doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean you can't be offended but many people in Europe will really never have heard of this being wrong or offensive.

[Nishankly]

So, to be fair, the blackface taboo is mostly a US thing. If anything aglosaxon world. Is it fair to expect a French-Spaniard to abide by the same standards when he's probably not even aware that it is a taboo thing in certain countries?

I guess HE should probably know it because from what I've read he's pretty much into american culture, hip hop, basketball and stuff. Also an advised top athelete.

As for a general french-spaniard I'd actually agree. Matter of fact if I ask around my friends most people won't know what blackface is. If I go to carnival I will see people do this. Doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean you can't be offended but many people in Europe will really never have heard of this being wrong or offensive.

I don't believe this was racist and Im expecting some people to come out in his support very soon.

[Unique]

Because the people who were oppressed during Giza don't face the same oppression now. They live harmoniously. But that's not exactly the case in America yet.

Eminem is a white rapper, He has never used the n word in any of his songs while all his black compatriots do. Why? Because he knows its off limits, He can't say it. Don't know why is it so hard to understand.

When we talk about confederates and Nazi's, Some who faced the oppression are still alive and most of the current people still face similar problems it so its not okay.

I completely agree with people jumping on things very quickly but a better example would be assuming the religion or motive of a man before a crime or an act of terrorism etc.

Back on topic now

because telling a white man he cant say a word and telling a black guy it is ok for him to say it is racist in its self and only adds to the race problem. how racist would it be if the world said we have a word that white people can say but black people will get arrested and charged if they say it. basically you have a law that separates blacks from whites. how can you expect everyone to treat each other the same no matter what colour they are when the law makers separate black people and white people.

I can't believe you don't get what's the problem with the word in question and what's the problems with its usage
I made a long post extra for you
It covers also this topic.
You're treating the word as if it's a neutral word. Is it a neutral word?
It's really not hard to understand. If you don't try, I have to assume you don't mind being a guy who's ignorant to racism.

I think you read my post and assumed I wanted the word to be used by all. my point was the word is racist and by making a law that says black people can use the word and white people cant only adds to the problem and by definition is a racist law. if you want to end racism then ban anything racist and make the law so it applies to everyone that way nobody can argue. it don't have to be a perfect word to make a law that treats everybody equal.

[Unique]

Because the people who were oppressed during Giza don't face the same oppression now. They live harmoniously. But that's not exactly the case in America yet.

Eminem is a white rapper, He has never used the n word in any of his songs while all his black compatriots do. Why? Because he knows its off limits, He can't say it. Don't know why is it so hard to understand.

When we talk about confederates and Nazi's, Some who faced the oppression are still alive and most of the current people still face similar problems it so its not okay.

I completely agree with people jumping on things very quickly but a better example would be assuming the religion or motive of a man before a crime or an act of terrorism etc.

Back on topic now

because telling a white man he cant say a word and telling a black guy it is ok for him to say it is racist in its self and only adds to the race problem. how racist would it be if the world said we have a word that white people can say but black people will get arrested and charged if they say it. basically you have a law that separates blacks from whites. how can you expect everyone to treat each other the same no matter what colour they are when the law makers separate black people and white people.

My final post on this. Its because it was INVENTED by white people to be used as derogatory term against them. So you can't use it, I can't use it. They can use the way they want since they've suffered through it. Can't believe its so hard.

my point is its a law. laws are set in stone and by making a law that applies to a white person but not a black person how do you expect to end racism. you can only have a chance to end racism by treating everybody the same and laws are the first thing that should apply to all.

[Nishankly]

because telling a white man he cant say a word and telling a black guy it is ok for him to say it is racist in its self and only adds to the race problem. how racist would it be if the world said we have a word that white people can say but black people will get arrested and charged if they say it. basically you have a law that separates blacks from whites. how can you expect everyone to treat each other the same no matter what colour they are when the law makers separate black people and white people.

My final post on this. Its because it was INVENTED by white people to be used as derogatory term against them. So you can't use it, I can't use it. They can use the way they want since they've suffered through it. Can't believe its so hard.

my point is its a law. laws are set in stone and by making a law that applies to a white person but not a black person how do you expect to end racism. you can only have a chance to end racism by treating everybody the same and laws are the first thing that should apply to all.

Its not a crime to use the N word in America, Anyone can use it, America has free speech. Its a crime when you use it as hate speech.

Now add this to what I've already told you and arrive at the position where you understand you can use it but you should not because its not nice and you're a nice person.

[Firenze]

Hans' playing devil's advocate and Unique who has likely dressed up in blackface before downplaying this

just another day on GL

[Doc]

Yeah, I don't think it was racially fueled. I just think most French footballers (or footballers in general) are as dunce as a goat's back foot and are so detached from anything that isn't in their little bubble that they genuinely have no clue of a lot of things.

I doubt Antoine knew what "black face" was. Like really doubt it. How could he? That is an American thing. The Caribbean didn't have black face either. Just the English being all tyrannical and oppressive but that's about it.

Sure, a lot of people would be all up in arms but us at GL are above that. We already know he is a big game fraud.

[Nishankly]

Actually Unique is correct in his stance

http://www.latlmes.com/world/equality-equals-equal-law-for-all-1

apologies.

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