Higuain's father : ' Juve made great offer for Higuain, but...'

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Post by DeviAngel Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:32 am

sportsczy wrote:Yeah... signing a 30 yo forward who has had 2 meh seasons back-to-back where you pay €12 mil and are committed to over 15 mil in wages with absolutely little to no resale value.

That's better than a 25 yo CF that is just entering his prime.

drunken 

If this is his prime than pls MArotta sign Di Natale

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Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:53 pm

Funny thing is that Tevez has 87 goals in the last 5 seasons while Higuain has 110 :coffee: 

Higuain scored more goal last year too despite playing far fewer minutes than Tevez.
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Post by dronte Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:30 pm

Funny thing is that you should never compare EPL with La Liga regarding goals scored.

I'm not saying either one is a better player, but I wouldn't judge a striker by this in a league where 90% of FCB&RM matches are nothing but a complete trashing of horrible defenses.

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Post by S Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:45 pm

sportsczy wrote:Funny thing is that Tevez has 87 goals in the last 5 seasons while Higuain has 110 :coffee: 

Higuain scored more goal last year too despite playing far fewer minutes than Tevez.

- Since he arrived at Manchester City, he has scored 58 goals, 3rd with most goals scored at the EPL, only below RvP (83) and Rooney (76).
- Of all FWs to play in the PL in the past 4 seasons only Rooney & van Persie have picked up more assists than Tevez(24).
-Tévez has participated in 82 goals in just 113 games.
- Has scored 12 goals from outside the box in the last 4 seasons.
-Regarding their overall CL record,Tevez has scored 6 goals out of 15 starts in his total of 35 appearances.Higuain has scored 8 goals out 30 starts in his total of 48 appearances in the CL.
.......

Think you may well leave this thread now.
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Post by Clandestino Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:12 pm

I don't want to be called Captain Obvious, but you are overcomplicating this waaaaaay too much. Basically, you are comparing two Argentine players that play in the same position. Gonzalo Higuain is Argentine's first choice striker for some time now and leading goalscorer of the current South American WC qualifying campaign. Carlos Tevez hasn't made the Argentine squad in just under 2 years now.

Now, player comparisons don't get much simpler than that, do they?
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:17 pm

Clandestino wrote:I don't want to be called Captain Obvious, but you are overcomplicating this waaaaaay too much. Basically, you are comparing two Argentine players that play in the same position. Gonzalo Higuain is Argentine's first choice striker for  some time now and leading goalscorer of the current South American WC qualifying campaign. Carlos Tevez hasn't made the Argentine squad in just under 2 years now.

Now, player comparisons don't get much simpler than that, do they?

What a terrible, terrible way of comparing players.


Gilardino is better than Di Natale then.
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Post by S Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:18 pm

First of all who even started the comparisons ? It was you Madrid fans who barged into this thread in a Juventus forum and started talking smack.Nobody cares here,seriously.If you want to compare both of them ,go to the dump that is the RB section and talk all you wish to.
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Post by Luca Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:22 pm

Clandestino wrote:I don't want to be called Captain Obvious, but you are overcomplicating this waaaaaay too much. Basically, you are comparing two Argentine players that play in the same position. Gonzalo Higuain is Argentine's first choice striker for  some time now and leading goalscorer of the current South American WC qualifying campaign. Carlos Tevez hasn't made the Argentine squad in just under 2 years now.

Now, player comparisons don't get much simpler than that, do they?

I'm not sure how we got from comparing the better transfer to comparing who is the better player. If national team status was the criteria then you may have a point. Fortunately, it's not a factor in judging the transfers.

Juventus did not want to or was able to meet Real Madrid's valuation of Higuain. Tevez became a cost effective alternative at less than half the price. End of story

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Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:25 pm

i think talking a bit is justified given that 2 months ago all Juve fans were popping champagne bottles that Higuain was signed and he's the next coming of Trezeguet... when Madrid fans mentioned that the reports seem premature and, frankly, insane given the financial figures reported... you guys ridiculed us.

Should i dig up all the quotes for fun? Laughing
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:28 pm

Next coming of Tre.. wtf


Who said that?


Only thing I said was he'd be a good addition and that I don't think he'll work with Llorente.

Also called him a CL flop, remember to dig those quotes up instead of a couple of random ones that suit your agenda.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:30 pm

I thought it was a crazy comparison too TL...  Trezeguet was a legend and as clutch as it got.  

Anyhow, i think Tevez/Llorente is a massive upgrade over last year, which was frankly pathetic up front.  Jovetic/Higuain would have been a lot better.  But beggars can't be choosers.
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Post by S Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:31 pm

sportsczy wrote:i think talking a bit is justified given that 2 months ago all Juve fans were popping champagne bottles that Higuain was signed and he's the next coming of Trezeguet... when Madrid fans mentioned that the reports seem premature and, frankly, insane given the financial figures reported... you guys ridiculed us.

Should i dig up all the quotes for fun?  Laughing

Not really ,you are coming here and creating an unnecessary argument for no reason trying to downplay Tevez's signing as much as you can.That urged me to defend Tevez cos in my view its a great transfer taking all aspects into account and thereby it made me give arguments not favoring Higuain.

Despite that,i still remain a fan of Higuain.(And i wish we had signed him.)
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:34 pm

Personally i'm happy, I would be a fool to defend our recent strike force they were collectively shit.

However, As much as I still want Jovetic he's not yet an improvement on Tev tbh, look at his stats last season. They were mediocre, and whilst you could rightly argue that Fiorentina have an inferior team to Juve, they definitely had a very, very creative midfield.

Higuain would be great in the league, the jury is still out on him in the CL.

Would Jovetic/Higuain have been better? Possibly.

Much better? I don't see it. When both players reach their peak then yeah, but that's a while away.


Also, Ibra/Cavani would be a stupendous improvment on either line up. But we can't live in fantasy world, what's important is that we took what was by FAR and away our biggest weakness and turned it into a respectable part of the squad for 10Million euros and no fuss.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:40 pm

For the present and the future i meant... it would have been nice to put guys 26 and below together in key positions and let them grow together.

In a year or two, Juve will have to go looking for a another striker while also trying to replace Buffon, Pirlo and Marchisio... would have been better to spread the needs over several years. But i guess it couldn't be helped.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:42 pm

If Leali is as good as the hype suggests, we should be fine for the GK department.

I don't think there is a legit Pirlo replacement, a change in tactics perhaps just sitting Pogba in place of him but doing a different job would make more sense.


As for a new striker, well maybe then we'll go after the big guns.
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Post by Luca Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:42 pm

sportsczy wrote:i think talking a bit is justified given that 2 months ago all Juve fans were popping champagne bottles that Higuain was signed and he's the next coming of Trezeguet... when Madrid fans mentioned that the reports seem premature and, frankly, insane given the financial figures reported... you guys ridiculed us.

Should i dig up all the quotes for fun?  Laughing

We celebrated Aguero, Rossi, Dzeko too. Pardon fans for being excited. Not to say I wouldn't have been happy with Higuain, I like him, but I'm happy with Tevez too.

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Post by Clandestino Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Well, I am sorry for "barging in", thought it was an open forum meaning you can post in any club supporter's thread - as long as you stay respectful. Now, officially I think you made a good transfer and got a solid player quite cheap.
However, when you read stuff like Tevez is twice the player Higuain is, I thought it was a direct comparison between the players and quite frankly, some of you posted utter nonsense.

And yes, I believe it is a good comparison to compare two players of same nationality playing the same position - you can make one example that might be or might not be true, but I can make thousand examples where a better player makes a national team and the worse one doesn't.

Simply said, Tevez was in the national team, fell out of it and never made his way back, while Higuain took over the starting place and is scoring for fun. The results of the team have also improved. If you can't make a conclusion out of this, well, then there is simply nothing more to say.

But if the topic was better transfer as in value for money (although then it got quite out of hand, didn't it?), then I'd actually say that both transfers at reported numbers would be there or thereabouts.
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Post by S Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:54 pm

Tevez and Llorente are going to cost a total of €46.5m both in transfer fees and wages.

Higuain and Jovetic would be costing €60m in transfer fees alone.Add their wages(with 5 year contracts cos of their age) it would surely have amounted to over €100m on investment.Would you say its beyond our financial capabilities without selling anyone important ? I would say so.

See,if you look at this way ,its a great deal business wise and Marotta should be commended for that cos with the budget constraints he got us two quality strikers for bargain prices.Instead you people are doing everything you could to make Tevez-Llorente look like some sort of scrub partnership or something in comparison Jove-Higgy.

Jovetic is not better than Tevez,dont kid yourself.Paying €30m for him would sound like an oil club-esque deal.We are not one of those,thanks.

Higuain is definitely better than Llorente though.I am not arguing that at all.But lets how it goes as Llorente is very eager to prove himself here and i am very happy with his transfer.

At the end of the day what matters is how they fare on the pitch though and personally i'm confident it could prove to be a fruitful partnership for Juve for a good 2-3 seasons.
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Post by S Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:59 pm

sportsczy wrote:For the present and the future i meant... it would have been nice to put guys 26 and below together in key positions and let them grow together.

In a year or two, Juve will have to go looking for a another striker while also trying to replace Buffon, Pirlo and Marchisio...  would have been better to spread the needs over several years.  But i guess it couldn't be helped.

You forget Juventus' finances is getting better and better.I mean the turnover is getting higher and higher by each season.

Not to mention clubs like yourselves would come fishing in for the likes of Pogba and Vidal who would only be sold for exorbitant prices.

Taking all those aspects into account ,i really wouldnt worry too much about the replacements.
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Post by Juventude Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:19 pm

Wow, this debate really deteriorated. I didn't read this thread until today because I was enjoying the Fourth of July holiday.

Would we have loved Higuain if we signed him? Yes because we really want a top striker, but most of us though 25m was a bit high.

Was Tevez a great signing at his price, age, and salary? Yes, he was a steal and Juve fans are happy with him.

It's that simple. We would loved to have either player because we really needed a striker. We got Tevez and are happy with him.
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Post by Luca Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:25 pm

Clandestino wrote:Well, I am sorry for "barging in", thought it was an open forum meaning you can post in any club supporter's thread  - as long as you stay respectful. Now, officially I think you made a good transfer and got a solid player quite cheap.
However, when you read stuff like Tevez is twice the player Higuain is, I thought it was a direct comparison between the players and quite frankly, some of you posted utter nonsense.

And yes, I believe it is a good comparison to compare two players of same nationality playing the same position - you can make one example that might be or might not be true, but I can make thousand examples where a better player makes a national team and the worse one doesn't.

Simply said, Tevez was in the national team, fell out of it and never made his way back, while Higuain took over the starting place and is scoring for fun. The results of the team have also improved. If you can't make a conclusion out of this, well, then there is simply nothing more to say.

But if the topic was better transfer as in value for money (although then it got quite out of hand, didn't it?), then I'd actually say that both transfers at reported numbers would be there or thereabouts.

No need to apologize, I enjoy healthy debate but I never wanted to get into the Tevez vs. Higuain on an ability criteria because I think they're both great players.

Yes, when comparing them the national team is a fair way but there are examples against your rule as Tom pointed out (not to say the exception proves the rule but it deserves consideration).

And yes, it did get quite out of hand. I'm happy with Tevez because stylistically I think he works better with Llorente, who was already signed prior to a deal for Tevez or Higuain and is on high wages at Juventus. Tevez-Llorente is a vast improvement from Vucinic-Matri and we'll go from there.

Other discussions about age don't seem warranted. Pirlo is the soul of the team and he is in his 30s. This team is designed to play right now. Are they defenseless for the future? I wouldn't say so but every year there will be constant re-assessments.

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Post by djfawnz Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:49 pm

sportsczy, you say beggars cant be choosers or whatever, but this comes from a team who was won less with your "star studded" team and with a CRACK manager who was shown the door.
This comes from a team who as of now does not have a team, a formation, way of playing, tactics, let alone that when carlo implements everything itll take a while for them to start winning titles.

This comes from a team who has wantaway stars like Kaka, Ronaldo, Pepe, Alonso, whereas not even 1 juve player wants to leave.

You're saying beggars cant be choosers yet you Nerman choose Barca over Real and your coach was your only option left.....hell your only transfer has been Isco and Carvajal...........


dude gtfoutta here son, Juventus is one of the best teams in the world who dont need crap from anybody. we only lost in the champions league cuz it was destiny for bayern to win the champions son.
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Post by DeviAngel Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:53 pm

calm down
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