GdS - Diamanti and Jovetic fundamental to the 4-2-3-1 that Conte has in mind

According to "Gazzetta dello Sport", Antonio Conte would be thinking more and more about a change of form in the next season. Witnessing live the Champions League final between Bayern and Borussia Dortmund, the Juventus coach has been able to closely observe the 4-2-3-1 with which the two German routinely line up and it seems that it would be geared towards this type of solution. However, to adopt this scheme in his Juventus, the technician Salento would require some key players at the time, however, not present in pink. The roles are those of midfielders discovered to be placed behind lone striker, the names that would fill this gap Diamonds and Jovetic. The two would guarantee a wide range of tactical solutions that would allow the coach to change the module even in the current game. It then goes to a Juve the German way.

Not entirely sure how we could pull off a 4-2-3-1 without changing quite a lot of what's working for us.



MVP are all first team players, that's not going to change so...



Licht----------Andrea B-------Bonucci-------Chielini--
-----------------Pirlo-----------Marchisio-------------
???-------------------Vidal---------------------????
-----------------------???------------------------------


First of all this would mean messing with our strongest asset. The back 3.

Secondly, we would need two top quality wide players. And I mean top quality.

Which would mean we would need two big star wingers if we want to play teams at their own game.


Reus, Ribery, Robben calibre wide men don't come cheap. It wouldn't make sense financially to change to a 4-2-3-1.


Also, we're interested in all of these strikers yet only one would be playing. And Jovetic is not a lone striker by any means.


The only way I see this happening is if we don't bother with true wide players and just play attacking midfielders such as Chelsea do. Or perhaps the 4-2-3-1 would focus more around a CF behind the striker, not a CAM.



4-2-3-1 without wide men:



Licht------------Bar--------Bonucci----------Chiellini
-----------------Pirlo---------Marchisio---------------
Vidal----------------------------------Giovinco/Diamanti
-------------------Jovetic---------------------------------
-------------------Llorente/Higuain---------------------



Again, dropping Bar, Bonbon, Chiello is odd to me, 3 fantastic defenders, the core of our success.


Vidal does sometimes switch with Licht in small periods of the game, considering we surely wouldn't push Jovetic out wide, we wouldn't drop Pirlo or Marchisio out of the team and obviously we'd never bench Vidal I guess he'd be playing RAM. Which is a bit odd.


Giovinco/Diamanti I imagine would occupy the left, neither can ever play as a lone striker and both have the tools to come in from slightly wider. Giovinco enjoyed success doing this for Parma.

Jovetic would be playing off of our lone striker who would be Llorente or possibly Higuain.


I don't know, it seems that changing to a 4-2-3-1 could either screw up our core team, provide to be extremely costly if we use wide men or possible both.



I'm not in favour of this.

Well 4-2-3-1 explains why conte wants Left back, CB , and two players for upfront ..

-------Marchisio----Pogba------
---Giovinco----Vidal----Jovetic---
-----------------Llorente-----

If you wanted to change to a back 4 then a 4-3-2-1 would make more sense IMO.


I suppose you could also look at other AMs and CFs too.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If you wanted to change to a back 4 then a 4-3-2-1 would make more sense IMO.

Buffon
Lichtsteiner Barzagli/Bonucci-Chiellini New LB
Pirlo
Vidal Marchisio
Vucinic Jovetic
Llorente

I suppose you could also look at other AMs and CFs too.

The thing is Conte wants Jovetic and Hiuain or Tevez ... I dunno why he wants 2 for the top ....

My biggest concern is that in switching to a 4-2-3-1 we'd end up with a couple of AM spots that we just filled with anybody we had who fits the bill. So in a sense if we don't spend stupid money we'd just have a shit, watered down version of Bayern/Dortmunds attacking system.

4-3-2-1 is interesting and could work, but my 2nd biggest concern is that should 4-anything be our new go-to line up. One of our 3 best performing players gets benched.

Andrea B might be the only one who could accept being benched given his age. However he happens to have been absolutely world class for us. And that's not a term I like to use too often because people the world over have watered it down.

DeviAngel wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If you wanted to change to a back 4 then a 4-3-2-1 would make more sense IMO.

Buffon
Lichtsteiner Barzagli/Bonucci-Chiellini New LB
Pirlo
Vidal Marchisio
Vucinic Jovetic
Llorente

I suppose you could also look at other AMs and CFs too.

The thing is Conte wants Jovetic and Hiuain or Tevez ... I dunno why he wants 2 for the top ....

Tbf Jovetic and Tevez can both play off the main striker in that system, in fact both are more comfortable there.

Only thing i will say Tom about benching one of your 3 CBs is Barzagli is quite old now even he is still brilliant so you will have to use Bonucci-Chiellini eventually anyway.

No doubt, I'd be more in favour of this in 2 years time. But the thing is we're letting a World class CB in world class form ride the bench and essentially waste away.

Benching Chiellini is not acceptable, Bonucci is ever improving and benching him would be stupid. So Bar is the only one we COULD bench, but even then it's not a wise move. And barring an injury to one of Chiellini/Bonucci it wouldn't make sense to keep rotating your back 2. It could lead to instability.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

DeviAngel wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:If you wanted to change to a back 4 then a 4-3-2-1 would make more sense IMO.

Buffon
Lichtsteiner Barzagli/Bonucci-Chiellini New LB
Pirlo
Vidal Marchisio
Vucinic Jovetic
Llorente

I suppose you could also look at other AMs and CFs too.

The thing is Conte wants Jovetic and Hiuain or Tevez ... I dunno why he wants 2 for the top ....

Tbf Jovetic and Tevez can both play off the main striker in that system, in fact both are more comfortable there.

Only thing i will say Tom about benching one of your 3 CBs is Barzagli is quite old now even he is still brilliant so you will have to use Bonucci-Chiellini eventually anyway.

Yeah but against team like BM, RM we need strong CF and tall something like Llorente or Tevez, Jovetic can be bullied.

as for back 4 it would its like blade with two sharp ends, Licht is growing old and in back 4 he will play RB and save up energy, Bonucci and Chiello can be tested and we will have great rotation with Barzagli. Caceres can play RB and Isla can be traded with Fiorentina for Jovetic. Asamoah will be moved to B2B CM again and we'll have great cover there to. But I want us to sign Lulic so bad

But why fixing something that ain't broken ....

Exactly. If it were up to me, I'd be keeping the back 3 until Andrea is too old to maintain his excellent form.

Basically the second we move from a back 3 to a back 4, we're weakening the strongest part of our team. Now the only way to justify doing that would be to overhaul our attack with a plethora of top class talents. Which is asking for far too much and we'd sound like a bunch of greedy fan boys If we asked Elkann to spend 80M on wingers/attacking midfielders. Not an option.

I'm against this. Defense and midfield are our strongest points, why fix what is not broken ? Plus it would make no sense to play 4-2-3-1 without a proper AM.

There are three scenarios:

1) Sacrifice Chiellini and see a world class center back turning into an under performing left back.

2) Bench Barzagli and play with Bonucci and Chiellini which would bring me back the nightmares of 10-11 season.

3) Bench Bonucci and lose a player that has finally found a role that suits him best and had an excellent season.


Conte isn't stupid. The chemistry of our team is excellent, he wont break overnight what he built in 2 excellent years.

Actually Giacchercini is AM,Vidal is to, Pogba can and is AM in my eyes. Tevez can play there 4-2-3-1 is not just AM you can use the one in the middle as Inside Forward Tevez,Jovetic,Vucinic,Gio they can all play there even Marchisio but as we said why fix something that ain't broken

Alessandro Diamanti has commented on speculation surrounding his future, insisting that he is happy to stay with Bologna.

The playmaker has been linked in recent weeks with a transfer out of the Renato Dall’Ara this coming transfer window in light of an impressive season of form for the Felsinei.

However, the 30-year-old has insisted today that his departure is not a foregone conclusion.

“My team for the future is Bologna, I am very happy in Emilia,” commented Diamanti to reporters today.

“I’ve had some good seasons in the Rossoblu shirt, so that I have made it to the national team, I hold this team close to me.

“I feel good, I live in a great city, I have had two great years.

“We will talk and see if it is possible to continue our relationship.”

We have players who could fit the role, but like I said if you think about it we'd just have a weakened version of the other teams 4-2-3-1's.


Instead of Roben and Ribery we'd use Giac and Diamanti whilst at the same time weakening our defence. Which is the part of our team that's better than the teams we're aiming to compete with.

We should just strengthen our attack, buy a Pirlo back up and a left back. Then if it becomes obvious that our system is not good enough to compete with the best teams in the world we can think about changes.


Until then this just looks like we're blaming our system instead of our techinically incapable strikers for our shortcomings.

Conte’s Euro Juve plan B

Antonio Conte is speculated by the Gazzetta dello Sport today as open to changing formation with Juventus in the Champions League next season.

The Bianconeri, who were eliminated in this season’s competition at the quarter-final stage by eventual winners Bayern Munich, are reportedly under consideration by their Coach for a new strategy next year.

In the Champions League for 2013-14, the Gazzetta dello Sport report that Conte is considering abandoning the 3-5-2 formation in favour of implementing a 4-2-3-1 shape.

Conte’s idea is to maintain the former line-up for predominantly domestic fixtures, but to introduce the latter for European games.

However, it is seen as dependent on the club’s work in the transfer window, whilst it may also present a problem for Andrea Pirlo, who is seen as unlikely to fit into the 4-2-3-1.

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:We have players who could fit the role, but like I said if you think about it we'd just have a weakened version of the other teams 4-2-3-1's.


Instead of Roben and Ribery we'd use Giac and Diamanti whilst at the same time weakening our defence. Which is the part of our team that's better than the teams we're aiming to compete with.

We should just strengthen our attack, buy a Pirlo back up and a left back. Then if it becomes obvious that our system is not good enough to compete with the best teams in the world we can think about changes.


Until then this just looks like we're blaming our system instead of our techinically incapable strikers for our shortcomings.

Gio is actually to deadly on that wing role to deadly on 1v1 he is hard to be stopped form LW.

---Giovinco---Vidal----Jovetic---

--Giovinco----Pogba---Jovetic---


--Giovinco----Tevez----Jovetic--
----------------Lllorente-----

That is Conte's plan Jovetic+Tevez\Higuain... hmm I love the last one

------Licht-----Bonucci----Chiellini----Lulic---
---------------Marchisio-----Vidal----
-----Giovinco------Tevez-----Jovetic---
--------------------Llorente/Matri----

Still Devi, even if we have the options to play the Christmas tree formation, the team has come to a level where experimentation should be and in my opinion is over. We should continue building in our 3-5-2 philosophy.

Benching Pirlo in favour of a 4-2-3-1 doesn't seem like a good option to me. In my opinion you need to field your best starting 11 to have the most success. The only way to do that without radically changing the core of the team is as follows:

4-3-1-2:

Lichtsteiner Bonucci Chiellini Kolarov

Vidal Pirlo Marchisio

Pogba

Higuain Jovetic

With this formation your best 11 are on the pitch and all are in their natural positions except Pogba. But I believe Pogba can become a future Ballon d'Or winner playing as an attacking midfielder, so hopefully Conte will play him in that position.

The only 2 players left out are Barzagli and Asamoah. Asamoah can be a backup CM and Barzagli is getting up there in age so he is first choice CB. We need top quality players on the bench in order to succeed in Italy and in Europe, so having players like Barzagli, Asamoah, Giovinco, Vucinic and Llorente on the bench will allow us to compete in all competitions with the chance to win the treble a possibility.

So we get Jojo, Higuain and Kolarov this summer and Marotta will surely become a Juventino legend...

The good thing about the 4-2-3-1 is that you don't really need a pure regista Pirlo as long as the B2B has good passing range, such as Schweinsteiger and Alonso. So Marchisio would fit that role perfectly, and with Pirlos age he can be a rotational player. Marchisio could also be tried as the 10. One of these I think would work well.

juventus101 wrote:The good thing about the 4-2-3-1 is that you don't really need a pure regista Pirlo as long as the B2B has good passing range, such as Schweinsteiger and Alonso. So Marchisio would fit that role perfectly, and with Pirlos age he can be a rotational player. Marchisio could also be tried as the 10. One of these I think would work well.

--Buffon--
--Lichsteiner-- --Barzagli-- --Chiellini-- --Kolarov--
--Vidal-- --Marchisio--
--Giovinco-- --Vucinic-- --Jovetic--
--Higuian--

Or:

--Buffon--
--Lichsteiner-- --Barzagli-- --Bonucci-- --Chiellini--
--Vidal-- --Pirlo--
--Jovetic-- --Marchisio-- --Vucinic--
--Llorente--

You have four strikers in the first formation. That is just crazy and won't happen. In the second, you are not going to get much out of the left flank with Chiellini as the LB. Chiellini is not string in bringing the ball up at his feet or crossing.

Some of these formations are just crazy. Similar formations worked for Bayern because they had extraordinary personnel at each position. Juve doesn't not really have the same level of quality. Also, there is more than one way to win UCL. We don't need to throw out 3 to 4 strikers on to the pitch. Dortmund very nearly one with one striker and an overall less quality team than Juve. Players like Jovetic, Higuain, and Vucinic are very good, but they are nowhere near guys Robben and Ribery. Juve needs to use what works for Juve not what works for Bayern.

A lot of the 4-2-3-1 you lot have in mind won't work.

Casciavit wrote:A lot of the 4-2-3-1 you lot have in mind won't work.

I agree. It's just the flavor of the day because one team wins with it. Juve shouldn't abandon what has been working.

I can't stress enough that trying to copy what's worked for Bayern and Dortmund would be a complete failure.

We don't have any top class CAM's or Wingers. So we'd be playing with a makeshift, shit version of that those two teams have in terms of the front 4 whilst also weakening our defence.

In my eyes if we do a 4-3-1-2 (this is including the people we are currently going after), I feel our best bet is
Buffon
Lichtsteiner, Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini
Pirlo, Vidal, Pogba
Marchisio
Higuain, Jovetic

However I believe tho our best bet is to stick with the 3-5-2
Buffon
Barzagli, Bonuci, Chiellini (center backs)
Lichtsteiner, Coentrao (wingbacks)
Vidal, Pirlo, Pogba
Jovetic, Higuain

if I recall Marchisio has suuuuuucked as a trequartista for Italy... Yet I keep seeing so many people wanting to play him out of position so Juventus can change when no change needs to be made :S just get some damn finishers and more back up and you'll be fine