Top 5 Best Wingers

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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:48 am

Cristiano Ronaldo hasnt played as a winger since his penultimate season at Man U.

Just because you lineup out there on the team sheet means nothing.

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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:57 am

top 5 right now... even harder.

Ribery, Di Maria, Hazard. After that, the gap in quality IMO is immense. These are the top 3 pure wingers (dont count the likes of Ozil, Mata, etc., as wingers). Id probably round it out with Jesus Navas and maybe Nani (out of form). I cant really comment on Reus too much because in all honesty I havent watched BvB as much as I did last season so im not too certain on his level of form.
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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:58 am

Nah, Ronaldinho was no winger either. He stayed wider than Cristiano does now funny enough, but when you see his goals vs Milan (last minute vs Nesta), or vs Chelsea (that toe poke) and so many others...he often picked the ball up in between the lines and in the middle.



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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:58 am

as I am thinking of all these wingers, I am really hard pressed to find 1 that would be in the top 15 that plays in serie a, unless im just too hungover to think clearly right now.
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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:00 am

The Franchise wrote:Nah, Ronaldinho was no winger either. He stayed wider than Cristiano does now funny enough, but when you see his goals vs Milan (last minute vs Nesta), or vs Chelsea (that toe poke) and so many others...he often picked the ball up in between the lines and in the middle.




Right... Dinho was pretty much just an operator all over the pitch IMO. He rarely operated wide on the right, from what I remember, but he wasnt a winger in the true sense.

where are you and mole getting those positioning charts.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:00 am

I do think a set of rules should be put in place before making a list like this tbh.

Reason being the idea of a winger is hardly used any more.

Most players that play in wide positions are either wide playmakers or inside forwards or even SS.

The idea of a winger has been replaced by the attacking fullback, who replace the winger role when the actual wide player goes inside.

I struggle to think of 5 wingers matter about the best wingers.

Even Ribery has changed his game and now operates all across the front line isn't just a natural winger any more.

The Figo type winger doesn't really exist any more and if he does you see his type as an attacking fullback more than an actual winger.

Winger isn't like CB, CM,CF etc etc its a role that has evolved over time and it doesn't exist much any more.







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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:06 am

The positioning charts I just stumple across when reading articles, be it zonalmarking.net or things like The Guardian online.

But what Mole said is correct and it makes good sense for coaches when you consider the type of fullbacks that exist these days.

Though, I am still a believer than having a true winger in your squad can be very useful.
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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:06 am

100% agreed. Perhaps the conversation should be more focused on who lines-up, stays, and operates out wide.

In addition, whose strengths are best exemplified when playing out wide?

These are perhaps better guidelines for the conversation, as I, like you, struggled to think of 5 true wingers. As I said, I really cant think of one in Serie A.

A player like CR linesup there on paper but doesnt play there. A player like Bale is very effective there, and linesup there, but his role isnt to be a winger its to be the most dangerous player on the pitch and as such he shows up centrally as well more often than not.
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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:07 am

The Franchise wrote:The positioning charts I just stumple across when reading articles, be it zonalmarking.net or things like The Guardian online.

But what Mole said is correct and it makes good sense for coaches when you consider the type of fullbacks that exist these days.

Though, I am still a believer than having a true winger in your squad can be very useful.

I agree as I dont think an attacking FB can ever be as effective as an all out winger.

But you can counter that by saying in the modern game you need to change your system around to fit in true wingers.
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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:15 am

What website are those Ronaldo graphs from?

Also just because he isn't on the wing, doesn't mean he isn't a winger. Wingers can have the license to roam around depending on the role. By wingers I don't mean traditional winger, I just mean a player on the wing, who can have different roles.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:15 am

Ribery, Bale and Di Maria I would even question now actually.

All 3 were wingers, all 3 can easily play the position..but none of them play there full time anymore.

Ribery as Mole said goes all over the place.

Bale plays in the middle now and I dont think he will ever go back left full time.

Di Maria is still a winger but at the same time, for Argentina, he has been deployed much more centerally.

So yeah, just for the sake of discussion I would include them (though maybe not Ribery) but overall...there arent very many in the mold of Jesus Navas, Valencia.

I am glad Barca still creating with Cuenca, hes a real throwback.
The Nature Boy wrote:
The Franchise wrote:The positioning charts I just stumple across when reading articles, be it zonalmarking.net or things like The Guardian online.

But what Mole said is correct and it makes good sense for coaches when you consider the type of fullbacks that exist these days.

Though, I am still a believer than having a true winger in your squad can be very useful.

I agree as I dont think an attacking FB can ever be as effective as an all out winger.

But you can counter that by saying in the modern game you need to change your system around to fit in true wingers.

Thats true. I especially like the winger because he is already in an advanced position. You can get the ball out to him quickly and allow him to go 1 v 1.

With a fullback, you have to wait, give him time to get forward...and then once there, the defence is set.

Also on top of that, if you rely on that fullbacks only, if you turn the ball over, he is out of position.

I agree, to use that kind of winger you have to change certain things. Though, Barca for example have brought on Cuenca for some minutes and he has caused instant danger and given a new dimension without us changing anything because its towards the end of games where structure is begging to fade.


Last edited by The Franchise on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:16 am

Yohan Modric wrote:What website are those Ronaldo graphs from?

Also just because he isn't on the wing, doesn't mean he isn't a winger. Wingers can have the license to roam around depending on the role. By wingers I don't mean traditional winger, I just mean a player on the wing, who can have different roles.

IF HE AINT ON THE WING, HE IS NOT A WINGER.

Please stop.
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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:18 am

Cuenca's given a new dimension, but players being on the end of crosses isn't Barca's strongest point.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:20 am

And yet, most of the time he played, something happens and he creates chances.

Messi, Xavi are actually superb at getting on the end of low crosses and Alexis is actually good in the air.

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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:22 am

The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:What website are those Ronaldo graphs from?

Also just because he isn't on the wing, doesn't mean he isn't a winger. Wingers can have the license to roam around depending on the role. By wingers I don't mean traditional winger, I just mean a player on the wing, who can have different roles.

IF HE AINT ON THE WING, HE IS NOT A WINGER.

Please stop.

Wingers have different roles. If he isn't on the wing, he isn't a traditional winger.

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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:22 am

The turnover piece is the scary thing. Inter and Barca were very good with Maicon and Alves respectively but in theory lesser players and teams that are less tactically astute will suffer.

Who operates best while on the wings is probably a more appropriate question as it is true that now all out wingers are not as popular.

@Yohan Modric: I think that what you are saying is impossible. A winger in the true sense is someone like Nani who just plays on the flank pretty much exclusively. While you are right that wingers can do other things, if staying wide and making crosses/incisive dribbles isnt your main role, then you are not a winger.
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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:32 am

The Nature Boy wrote:The turnover piece is the scary thing. Inter and Barca were very good with Maicon and Alves respectively but in theory lesser players and teams that are less tactically astute will suffer.

Who operates best while on the wings is probably a more appropriate question as it is true that now all out wingers are not as popular.

@Yohan Modric: I think that what you are saying is impossible. A winger in the true sense is someone like Nani who just plays on the flank pretty much exclusively. While you are right that wingers can do other things, if staying wide and making crosses/incisive dribbles isnt your main role, then you are not a winger.

A player who stays wide and crosses etc is a traditional winger.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:32 am

Whats wrong with you lol

Wing-er.

You see the word wing in there?

What next a centerback who plays in midfield?



Nature boy I agree about Dani and Maicon. I think the difference is, Barca are in your final third, they have forced you back...and when they press you, you cant escape and actually punish Alves.

As for Inter, they had Zanetti in midfield..a rightback in his own right, it was an easy transition for him to get out to cover him. Most teams dont have those two things.
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Post by The Nature Boy Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:42 am

Yohan Modric wrote:
The Nature Boy wrote:The turnover piece is the scary thing. Inter and Barca were very good with Maicon and Alves respectively but in theory lesser players and teams that are less tactically astute will suffer.

Who operates best while on the wings is probably a more appropriate question as it is true that now all out wingers are not as popular.

@Yohan Modric: I think that what you are saying is impossible. A winger in the true sense is someone like Nani who just plays on the flank pretty much exclusively. While you are right that wingers can do other things, if staying wide and making crosses/incisive dribbles isnt your main role, then you are not a winger.

A player who stays wide and crosses etc is a traditional winger.

thats what i said... if staying out wide and making crosses/incisive dribbles ISNT your main role (meaning that you do other things besides that, primarily), then you are NOT a winger.

___

Dani: your right, most teams dont. for that reason adding the dynamic of a true winger would be an easier option for teams that are less tactically aware. However, it can be hard to use true wingers as you either lose the presence of an inside forward if the wingers forté is crossing, and you also lose the hustle of a box to box player (that might paly out wide). I think in todays day and age where roles are more ambiguous than they used to be, something as specific as wingers falls out of favor because you need to be able to do more than one thing now. A player like Marc Overmars would find himself on most benches because he didnt defend. he was a hell of a player but he pretty much did just one thing: attack you at pace down the sideline.

Players like Gareth Bale on the other hand, are thriving because they have been asked to, and can do, more than one thing. They can fill more than one role.
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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:44 am

Players like Ronaldo, Silva etc's starting positions are still from the wing. From there they roam around. 'Winger' doesn't just have to mean a traditional winger. There's more to the word 'Winger' than just being on the wing all the time.

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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:46 am

The Nature Boy wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:
The Nature Boy wrote:The turnover piece is the scary thing. Inter and Barca were very good with Maicon and Alves respectively but in theory lesser players and teams that are less tactically astute will suffer.

Who operates best while on the wings is probably a more appropriate question as it is true that now all out wingers are not as popular.

@Yohan Modric: I think that what you are saying is impossible. A winger in the true sense is someone like Nani who just plays on the flank pretty much exclusively. While you are right that wingers can do other things, if staying wide and making crosses/incisive dribbles isnt your main role, then you are not a winger.

A player who stays wide and crosses etc is a traditional winger.

thats what i said... if staying out wide and making crosses/incisive dribbles ISNT your main role (meaning that you do other things besides that, primarily), then you are NOT a winger.

___

Dani: your right, most teams dont. for that reason adding the dynamic of a true winger would be an easier option for teams that are less tactically aware. However, it can be hard to use true wingers as you either lose the presence of an inside forward if the wingers forté is crossing, and you also lose the hustle of a box to box player (that might paly out wide). I think in todays day and age where roles are more ambiguous than they used to be, something as specific as wingers falls out of favor because you need to be able to do more than one thing now. A player like Marc Overmars would find himself on most benches because he didnt defend. he was a hell of a player but he pretty much did just one thing: attack you at pace down the sideline.

Players like Gareth Bale on the other hand, are thriving because they have been asked to, and can do, more than one thing. They can fill more than one role.

A traditional winger is just a role of a winger. There's different roles for wingers. 'Winger' doesn't literally have to mean someone who is a traditional winger or someone who's on the wing all the time.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:47 am

Attacking fullbacks tend to have high turn over rates reason being is because what they are there for is to get down the byline and put crosses in or pull passes back into space.

And unless your ridiculously good a very low percentage of crosses will find their mark its just a case of high risk and high reward.

Also the graphs are from Whoscored i don't like standard stats but some of the advanced stuff there is quite interesting.

Also i agree with Dani true wingers are extremely useful to those day just look at how Spurs improve with Lennon playing its just very rare to find these players.

I'm sure in years gone by the likes of Alba would have been a winger, Alaba for example started as a midfielder.

Most of these players are converted to fullback now, its just an example on how things are changing.

Marcelo is another one.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:48 am

Nature boy thats true, very true.

MT you really need to consider thinking about what your saying.
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Post by Onyx Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:49 am

Marcelo played on the wing but he was one dimensional and is better suited as an attacking fullback. Same probably goes for Alba.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:50 am

To add to Moles list, Coentrao, who started as a winger in fact, but Benfica dont use wingers in that way, so he was quickly converted to leftback.

They use shuttlers, players who need to play as center midfielders one moment, but wingers the next. Di Maria and Ramires being the most famous two.
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Post by The Franchise Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:51 am

Attacking fullback just means a fullback who cant defend. Horrific players I have no time for.

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