Top 5 Best Wingers

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Post by TheRedStag Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:44 am

Downing

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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:47 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:But if Ronaldo was a winger.... surely Marcelo injured wouldn't be a problem?

Surely he can provide said width if he's the winger you claim him to be?

Maybe its because he isn't and your fullbacks provide your width?

Also heat maps say nothing because Ronaldo has a free role and goes where the f*ck he likes his average position is more telling and he hasn't been a winger for years.

You can't hide from the facts he's basically next to Benzema/Higuain in every single game.

Another thing if he was a winger then Benzema and Higuian would score more goals him occupying their space is directly effecting their goalscoring potential.

I suppose you would call Bale a winger too yes hmm

Where he goes/roams to isn't his position.

Heatmaps show Dani Alves at RW, is he a RW?

The heatmap vs Man Utd for Ronaldo, who is in the LW area:


Top 5 Best Wingers - Page 6 Mwfiwi

Being a winger isn't just playing an inch from the touchline.

No, but the average position shows Dani Alves as a fullback...so yeah, hes a fullback.

That average positon vs Man Utd, hes not in the left wing area....clearly...

Bring a winger doesnt mean being an inch from the touchline..makes more sense than playing on the edge of the box.

So you expect ronaldo to hug the touchline on the average position map??? Suspect da fuq?
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Post by Gil Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:10 pm

This might be the worst thread of all time.

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Post by The Nature Boy Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:13 pm

Well looks like the worst thread of all time added another useless comment.

BTW Gil you got a source to back that claim up? :coffee:
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Post by The Franchise Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:56 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:But if Ronaldo was a winger.... surely Marcelo injured wouldn't be a problem?

Surely he can provide said width if he's the winger you claim him to be?

Maybe its because he isn't and your fullbacks provide your width?

Also heat maps say nothing because Ronaldo has a free role and goes where the f*ck he likes his average position is more telling and he hasn't been a winger for years.

You can't hide from the facts he's basically next to Benzema/Higuain in every single game.

Another thing if he was a winger then Benzema and Higuian would score more goals him occupying their space is directly effecting their goalscoring potential.

I suppose you would call Bale a winger too yes hmm

Where he goes/roams to isn't his position.

Heatmaps show Dani Alves at RW, is he a RW?

The heatmap vs Man Utd for Ronaldo, who is in the LW area:


Top 5 Best Wingers - Page 6 Mwfiwi

Being a winger isn't just playing an inch from the touchline.

No, but the average position shows Dani Alves as a fullback...so yeah, hes a fullback.

That average positon vs Man Utd, hes not in the left wing area....clearly...

Bring a winger doesnt mean being an inch from the touchline..makes more sense than playing on the edge of the box.

So you expect ronaldo to hug the touchline on the average position map??? Suspect da fuq?

Erm, if hes a winger...then yeah...
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:15 am

The Franchise wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

No, but the average position shows Dani Alves as a fullback...so yeah, hes a fullback.

That average positon vs Man Utd, hes not in the left wing area....clearly...

Bring a winger doesnt mean being an inch from the touchline..makes more sense than playing on the edge of the box.

So you expect ronaldo to hug the touchline on the average position map??? Suspect da fuq?

Erm, if hes a winger...then yeah...
Not nessesarily..

Players interchange positions in games, as I said why do wingers specifically have to stay on the wing? they don't..

I don't think you get my point, and I don't get yours. Agree to disagree

Please none of your facts bs. You provided zilch Laughing but whatever
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Post by The Sanchez Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:41 am

Franchise :bow: Complete truth and such a same that butthurt fanboys cannot see the facts and common sense... :coffee:
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:45 am

Mole & Dani Proud

didnt notice this thread, started getting headaches after the 4th page but the schooling was nice Very Happy
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:16 pm

Schooling? please..

Hilarious how some of you kiss ass to others on here. Carry on
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:22 pm

yeah, specially when you lads dont understand what a "winger" is and is not.
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Post by The Nature Boy Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:24 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:yeah, specially when you lads dont understand what a "winger" is and is not.

TBF mole and dani werent the only ones saying what they were ad nauseum.

But yes, it was nice Cool
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:32 pm

oh, true, special mention for the nature boy Proud
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Post by Doc Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:24 pm

I think I may have figured out MT dilemma. Whenever you see a starting lineup for let's say, Real Madrid, Cristiano would usually be placed on the left wing. I assume that is his starting position or just to make life simple for the viewing audience. Hence the whole "scoring from a winger's position". The actuality of it is that Cristiano doesn't stay on the wing. In fact, Cristiano can be found in any part of the attacking third during a match at any given time.

It's called drifting. Most skillful players tend to drift to wide areas to free up space in the middle by "dragging" defenders along with them (some do it better and smarter than others) or simply to find space. Most times it can be natural movement or just tactical instructions. Cristiano hasn't been a winger since SAF realised how much of a liability he can be in a team oriented defensive system. The likes of Silva and Iniesta aren't wingers either. They just drift wide. I doubt anyone who watches Messi collect the ball deep considers him a central midfielder.

Though Dani can be a bit snooty when he is visibly annoyed, nothing he said was wrong. A winger is a player who plays on the wing. Nothing complicated at all. Navas, Susaeta, Pedro Leon, Joaquin, Vicente, Figo, David f-ing Beckham, these guys are wingers.


Last edited by Doc on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Onyx Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:24 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder#Winger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_forward


There are different types/roles for wingers. A winger isn't just someone who stays out and wide and crosses the ball. That is called a traditional winger.

In fact the first ever type of winger was actually an outside forward, but over the years the role has changed.

The winger role is continuing to change now as well.

Again, a winger isn't just someone who stays out wide and crosses the ball.

Ronaldo is a winger, but if there was a forward, midfield, defense category, he'd be in the forward one, because he's more of a forward. David Silva is a winger, however he'd be in the midfield category, because he's more of a midfielder.

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Post by Doc Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 pm

Why not call Iniesta a winger as well if you insist on Silva being a winger [which neither are btw]...
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Post by Onyx Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:12 pm

Because Iniesta usually plays CM.

If Silva isn't a winger, then what position does he play? He can't be an attacking midfielder because he doesn't play centrally at AM. I'm not sure where he plays at Man City currently, but this is based on when he has/or does play on the wing.

Again, by winger I don't mean a traditional winger who hugs the touchline and crosses the ball.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:19 am

Wikipedia Laughing

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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:21 am

Doc wrote:

Though Dani can be a bit snooty when he is visibly annoyed, nothing he said was wrong. A winger is a player who plays on the wing. Nothing complicated at all. Navas, Susaeta, Pedro Leon, Joaquin, Vicente, Figo, David f-ing Beckham, these guys are wingers.

Very true, I cant help it lol

I will try twice in a normal way, if people arent getting obvious shite after it then im done and I become an ass.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:22 am

Giggity5313 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

No, but the average position shows Dani Alves as a fullback...so yeah, hes a fullback.

That average positon vs Man Utd, hes not in the left wing area....clearly...

Bring a winger doesnt mean being an inch from the touchline..makes more sense than playing on the edge of the box.

So you expect ronaldo to hug the touchline on the average position map??? Suspect da fuq?

Erm, if hes a winger...then yeah...
Not nessesarily..

Players interchange positions in games, as I said why do wingers specifically have to stay on the wing? they don't..

I don't think you get my point, and I don't get yours. Agree to disagree

Please none of your facts bs. You provided zilch Laughing but whatever

Yes and if a players changes positions guess what? Hes not a winger.

Yes, wingers have to stay on the wing...if not, they are not a winger Laughing

I get your point, your just incredibly wrong.

Facts? What facts? As I told MT earlier, no facts here, just common sense.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:30 am

Yohan Modric wrote:

In fact the first ever type of winger was actually an outside forward, but over the years the role has changed.

.

And btw, not true at all.

Back in the original days of the "outside forward" formations were just arbitary, they basically didnt exist.

Teams played "235" and all 5 forwards played wherever they liked...they simple were called outside forward because on paper, they appeared on the outside.

But what the games, they were not all wingers, just 5 players playing wherever they liked.

Then, just like now, if you were staying on the wingers you are what you might call a winger. Thats the evolution.

For example, Garrincha.in 1958 played in a "424" as a "outside forward"...what it actually was on the field was a lobsided 4231 with Garrincha the only winger on the pitch for Brazil.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:34 am

Yohan Modric wrote:Because Iniesta usually plays CM.

If Silva isn't a winger, then what position does he play? He can't be an attacking midfielder because he doesn't play centrally at AM. I'm not sure where he plays at Man City currently, but this is based on when he has/or does play on the wing.

Again, by winger I don't mean a traditional winger who hugs the touchline and crosses the ball.

what are you talking about dude, you have RAMs, CAMs and LAMs, i think fifa does a pretty good job describing that.

At City he mostly plays Right attacking midfielder, because Yaya is the central attacking midfielder. some other times you will find him on the left.

When malaga deployed their 4222, they effectively used 2 AMs, both with the freedom to roam wide and center, one LAM predominantly on the left, one RAM predominantly on the right.

being positioned on the left or right, doesnt make him a playmaking winger. Just as Ronaldo being positioned on the left, is not a left winger.

come to think of it, natural wingers can only actually play on the bands, they are allergic to playing centrally. That's why, as mole described earlier, most attacking fullbacks today are yesterday's wingers.
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Post by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:48 am

The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:

In fact the first ever type of winger was actually an outside forward, but over the years the role has changed.

.

And btw, not true at all.

Back in the original days of the "outside forward" formations were just arbitary, they basically didnt exist.

Teams played "235" and all 5 forwards played wherever they liked...they simple were called outside forward because on paper, they appeared on the outside.

But what the games, they were not all wingers, just 5 players playing wherever they liked.

Then, just like now, if you were staying on the wingers you are what you might call a winger. Thats the evolution.

For example, Garrincha.in 1958 played in a "424" as a "outside forward"...what it actually was on the field was a lobsided 4231 with Garrincha the only winger on the pitch for Brazil.


I think them supposedly playing all over the pitch was due to their role.

The responsibilities of an outside forward include:

They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.

They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.

Anyway the 'outside forward' position apparently turned into a 'winger' position. Nowdays the 'winger' position is changing as well. It's just an evolution.

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Post by Abramovich Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:49 am

The Franchise wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Erm, if hes a winger...then yeah...
Not nessesarily..

Players interchange positions in games, as I said why do wingers specifically have to stay on the wing? they don't..

I don't think you get my point, and I don't get yours. Agree to disagree

Please none of your facts bs. You provided zilch Laughing but whatever

Yes and if a players changes positions guess what? Hes not a winger.

Yes, wingers have to stay on the wing...if not, they are not a winger Laughing

I get your point, your just incredibly wrong.

Facts? What facts? As I told MT earlier, no facts here, just common sense.

I remember Giggity supposedly playing LWF on fifa pro clubs, yet ended up at RB in our own half trying to call for the ball hmm

Think the problem for MT is that he needs to leave the house more.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:54 am

Yohan Modric wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:

In fact the first ever type of winger was actually an outside forward, but over the years the role has changed.

.

And btw, not true at all.

Back in the original days of the "outside forward" formations were just arbitary, they basically didnt exist.

Teams played "235" and all 5 forwards played wherever they liked...they simple were called outside forward because on paper, they appeared on the outside.

But what the games, they were not all wingers, just 5 players playing wherever they liked.

Then, just like now, if you were staying on the wingers you are what you might call a winger. Thats the evolution.

For example, Garrincha.in 1958 played in a "424" as a "outside forward"...what it actually was on the field was a lobsided 4231 with Garrincha the only winger on the pitch for Brazil.


I think them supposedly playing all over the pitch was due to their role.

The responsibilities of an outside forward include:

They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.

They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.

Anyway the 'outside forward' position apparently turned into a 'winger' position. Nowdays the 'winger' position is changing as well. It's just an evolution.

They played all over the pitch because they had no role...in the 40's and earlier football was a free for all.

And no, as I already explained..the outside forward didnt "turn into the winger"...if you cant read, I cant help you.

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Post by RealGunner Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:55 am

Greatest rivalry since Pele maradona
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Post by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:56 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Because Iniesta usually plays CM.

If Silva isn't a winger, then what position does he play? He can't be an attacking midfielder because he doesn't play centrally at AM. I'm not sure where he plays at Man City currently, but this is based on when he has/or does play on the wing.

Again, by winger I don't mean a traditional winger who hugs the touchline and crosses the ball.

what are you talking about dude, you have RAMs, CAMs and LAMs, i think fifa does a pretty good job describing that.

At City he mostly plays Right attacking midfielder, because Yaya is the central attacking midfielder. some other times you will find him on the left.

When malaga deployed their 4222, they effectively used 2 AMs, both with the freedom to roam wide and center, one LAM predominantly on the left, one RAM predominantly on the right.

being positioned on the left or right, doesnt make him a playmaking winger. Just as Ronaldo being positioned on the left, is not a left winger.

come to think of it, natural wingers can only actually play on the bands, they are allergic to playing centrally. That's why, as mole described earlier, most attacking fullbacks today are yesterday's wingers.

True, he can be called a RAM, however I don't think there would be anything wrong with saying he's a playmaking winger. Both are kinda similar. Winger doesn't mean he's a traditional winger, it just means he's playing out wide, but having a playmaking role.


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