how does one regain rep/warning level box

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Post by Lupi Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:43 am

thanks
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Post by Kick Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:53 am

It comes back over time. I believe it is a couple of months or so.
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Post by McLewis Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:16 am

Behave and contribute positively to the forum and we will restore it as we see fit.
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Post by Casciavit Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:02 pm

Depends on which kind of poster the admins view you.

If the admins view you as a troll, they'll keep you at 25% to make sure you have 2nd thoughts before you troll on the forum, so you would have to be good for a long time to get +25% back.

If they don't view you as a troll, then you'll have to post and behave well consistently to get an extra +25%.


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Post by Die Borussen Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:18 pm

they treat us in the wrong way

low warning level urges a user to keep trolling More as he sees his account as an already wrecked one
you see several users immediately after they got unbanned, start trolling again, they see the 25% and it launches their dander to promote their bad side.

it would be better once a user gets banned to start with a warning level of 100% after it.
and with the inclusion of personal messages by the admins they would cool it off instead of getting banned directly after the end of their punishment.

in general the warning level should either not exist or just regain quicker

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Post by Kick Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:49 pm

@Die Borussen wrote:they treat us in the wrong way

low warning level urges a user to keep trolling More as he sees his account as an already wrecked one
you see several users immediately after they got unbanned, start trolling again, they see the 25% and it launches their dander to promote their bad side.

it would be better once a user gets banned to start with a warning level of 100% after it.
and with the inclusion of personal messages by the admins they would cool it off instead of getting banned directly after the end of their punishment.

in general the warning level should either not exist or just regain quicker

surely, after a ban, if you had full rep you could troll more than at 25%.

staying at 25% means you should learn from your ban and be a good poster in order to boost your rep? scratch
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Post by Forza Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:30 am

@Kick wrote:
@Die Borussen wrote:they treat us in the wrong way

low warning level urges a user to keep trolling More as he sees his account as an already wrecked one
you see several users immediately after they got unbanned, start trolling again, they see the 25% and it launches their dander to promote their bad side.

it would be better once a user gets banned to start with a warning level of 100% after it.
and with the inclusion of personal messages by the admins they would cool it off instead of getting banned directly after the end of their punishment.

in general the warning level should either not exist or just regain quicker

surely, after a ban, if you had full rep you could troll more than at 25%.

staying at 25% means you should learn from your ban and be a good poster in order to boost your rep? scratch
In a bizarre way, I think Die Borussen is correct.

Let's say someone commits an offence and goes to prison for it... when they get out, should they not be given a clean slate? Have they not paid their debt to society? Should we not encourage them to reform rather than constantly reminding them of their criminal past?

hmm
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Post by Kick Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:33 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:
@Kick wrote:
@Die Borussen wrote:they treat us in the wrong way

low warning level urges a user to keep trolling More as he sees his account as an already wrecked one
you see several users immediately after they got unbanned, start trolling again, they see the 25% and it launches their dander to promote their bad side.

it would be better once a user gets banned to start with a warning level of 100% after it.
and with the inclusion of personal messages by the admins they would cool it off instead of getting banned directly after the end of their punishment.

in general the warning level should either not exist or just regain quicker

surely, after a ban, if you had full rep you could troll more than at 25%.

staying at 25% means you should learn from your ban and be a good poster in order to boost your rep? scratch
In a bizarre way, I think Die Borussen is correct.

Let's say someone commits an offence and goes to prison for it... when they get out, should they not be given a clean slate? Have they not paid their debt to society? Should we not encourage them to reform rather than constantly reminding them of their criminal past?

hmm

No one who comes out of prison is given a clean slate.

If a rapist walks out of prison and starts working at your work, as soon as you learn this information you will know him as the rapist. People are judgemental like that.

Over time, if he is good and does nothing wrong, you'll think of him less as a rapist and more as a person and work mate.

Just my personal opinion.
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Post by Forza Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:58 am

@Kick wrote:
Forza Rossoneri wrote:
@Kick wrote:

surely, after a ban, if you had full rep you could troll more than at 25%.

staying at 25% means you should learn from your ban and be a good poster in order to boost your rep? scratch
In a bizarre way, I think Die Borussen is correct.

Let's say someone commits an offence and goes to prison for it... when they get out, should they not be given a clean slate? Have they not paid their debt to society? Should we not encourage them to reform rather than constantly reminding them of their criminal past?

hmm

No one who comes out of prison is given a clean slate.

If a rapist walks out of prison and starts working at your work, as soon as you learn this information you will know him as the rapist. People are judgemental like that.

Over time, if he is good and does nothing wrong, you'll think of him less as a rapist and more as a person and work mate.

Just my personal opinion.
The problem with your analogy is that rape is a crime for which there is great social stigma attached. However, trolling is a 'crime' on this forum where there is virtually no social stigma attached. It's like the speeding ticket of criminal offences. Yes, it's wrong and yes, it's harmful, but I would never think worse of someone because they got a speeding ticket. Agreed?
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Post by Guest Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:13 am

Are you implying that posters get -25% for speeding ticket type offenses? In my opinion the moderators are very fair and I fail to see Die Borussen's point. Staying at 25% warning level is the equivalent of probation and failing to keep such a system will only promote trollish behavior. Do you really think trolls continue to troll because they see their account as wrecked? Why did they not think of such things when their account hit 75% and 50% (for the record, that is a rhetorical question - they just do not care to contribute to this forum in a positive manner).

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Post by Kick Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:15 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:
@Kick wrote:
Forza Rossoneri wrote:
In a bizarre way, I think Die Borussen is correct.

Let's say someone commits an offence and goes to prison for it... when they get out, should they not be given a clean slate? Have they not paid their debt to society? Should we not encourage them to reform rather than constantly reminding them of their criminal past?

hmm

No one who comes out of prison is given a clean slate.

If a rapist walks out of prison and starts working at your work, as soon as you learn this information you will know him as the rapist. People are judgemental like that.

Over time, if he is good and does nothing wrong, you'll think of him less as a rapist and more as a person and work mate.

Just my personal opinion.
The problem with your analogy is that rape is a crime for which there is great social stigma attached. However, trolling is a 'crime' on this forum where there is virtually no social stigma attached. It's like the speeding ticket of criminal offences. Yes, it's wrong and yes, it's harmful, but I would never think worse of someone because they got a speeding ticket. Agreed?

There are very few crimes on a forum which can have a great social stigma and I am sure any of them would result in a permanent ban.

but who goes to jail for speeding tickets?

basically, what I am saying is, for you to go to jail (ban) you have to have done something which would more than likely hang over your head for sometime. If it was a once off thing, you would have to slowly build your reputation back.
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Post by Forza Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:48 am

@Kick wrote:
Forza Rossoneri wrote:
@Kick wrote:

No one who comes out of prison is given a clean slate.

If a rapist walks out of prison and starts working at your work, as soon as you learn this information you will know him as the rapist. People are judgemental like that.

Over time, if he is good and does nothing wrong, you'll think of him less as a rapist and more as a person and work mate.

Just my personal opinion.
The problem with your analogy is that rape is a crime for which there is great social stigma attached. However, trolling is a 'crime' on this forum where there is virtually no social stigma attached. It's like the speeding ticket of criminal offences. Yes, it's wrong and yes, it's harmful, but I would never think worse of someone because they got a speeding ticket. Agreed?

There are very few crimes on a forum which can have a great social stigma and I am sure any of them would result in a permanent ban.

but who goes to jail for speeding tickets?

basically, what I am saying is, for you to go to jail (ban) you have to have done something which would more than likely hang over your head for sometime. If it was a once off thing, you would have to slowly build your reputation back.
It is important to recognise that my original example of going to jail was only used because it is similar to banning someone in that the offender is separated from the rest of society/the forum. Whether the metaphorical punishment is a jail sentence or a speeding ticket is irrelevant.

Now I return to the point initially raised by DB. Psychologically, having a constant reminder of that punishment each time you post may encourage you to re-offend instead of acting as a deterrent. I think this is certainly a possibility. More than that, I think this is likely and that this has happened in the past on this forum.

Turning to the consequent issue of what to do about this phenomenon, I suggested that the warning level be returned to 100% after the banning. I agree with you, though. These offenders are deserving of some kind of probationary period. However, would it not be possible to have a period of probation without having a reduced warning level?

I will continue this train of thought in my response to Dom...
ranDOM 10 wrote:Are you implying that posters get -25% for speeding ticket type offenses? In my opinion the moderators are very fair and I fail to see Die Borussen's point. Staying at 25% warning level is the equivalent of probation and failing to keep such a system will only promote trollish behavior. Do you really think trolls continue to troll because they see their account as wrecked? Why did they not think of such things when their account hit 75% and 50% (for the record, that is a rhetorical question - they just do not care to contribute to this forum in a positive manner).
The fairness of the moderators is not in question. I cannot agree more with you when I say that the moderators do a superb job and have the discretion to deduct or replenish % points as they please.

What I propose is that the warning level shown when someone is welcomed back into the forum is 100%.

But how would it be possible to convey the idea of a probationary period without putting the offender on 25% on their return? Once again, I refer back to DB's original post, "with the inclusion of personal messages by the admins they would cool it off".

So rather than having a numerical value assigned to tell you that you are treading on thin ice, the moderators would talk to you on your re-entry into the forum and explain that you will be given a 100% rating and accepted back into the forum community wholeheartedly, but also reminding you that breaking the rules of the forum is serious and that any future indiscretions will not be viewed favourably. What's more, this conversation gives the returning member the opportunity to apologise and explain their actions - a kind of mediation or friendly dispute resolution, if you will.

Once again, I must emphasise that it is most definitely not the judgement of the moderators that I take issue with, rather it is the way in which the concept of this probationary period is communicated to formerly banned members.

Spoiler:
By the way, I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Thumbs up
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Post by Kick Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:56 am

Here is another problem with what you are saying, People who currently sit on 25% will intentionally get themselves banned so they can take the slap on their wrists and return to 100% instead of working hard to increase their rep by contributing to the forum. This will encourage trolling and other illegal acts in order for posters to get the easy way out.

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Post by Forza Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:02 am

@Kick wrote:Here is another problem with what you are saying, People who currently sit on 25% will intentionally get themselves banned so they can take the slap on their wrists and return to 100% instead of working hard to increase their rep by contributing to the forum. This will encourage trolling and other illegal acts in order for posters to get the easy way out.
Ah, but their 100% will still be viewed by the moderators as 25%. It will just appear to be set at 100% as a gesture of goodwill towards the returning offender.

Think about it, as it is, how many people on this forum get banned, only to immediately re-offend? Through proper communication of what is going on from the mods and the positive reinforcement of this apparent 100% rating, I think that we can have more people striving to contribute rather than set in a downward spiral of offence and re-offence.
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Post by Kick Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:12 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:
@Kick wrote:Here is another problem with what you are saying, People who currently sit on 25% will intentionally get themselves banned so they can take the slap on their wrists and return to 100% instead of working hard to increase their rep by contributing to the forum. This will encourage trolling and other illegal acts in order for posters to get the easy way out.
Ah, but their 100% will still be viewed by the moderators as 25%. It will just appear to be set at 100% as a gesture of goodwill towards the returning offender.

Think about it, as it is, how many people on this forum get banned, only to immediately re-offend? Through proper communication of what is going on from the mods and the positive reinforcement of this apparent 100% rating, I think that we can have more people striving to contribute rather than set in a downward spiral of offence and re-offence.

While I understand the good will gesture, I don't see the point in it. If it's the same as 25%, it's only cosmetically different from 25% therefore only making the particular user happy.

I still feel promoting a poster to work hard for their rep is better than giving them a quick fix.

Also, I hold pride in the fact I have 100% and feel giving banned posters 100% would somewhat tarnish that Pride.

However, I'd love an admin to weigh in to get their opinion.
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Post by Guest Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:13 am

This is a forum with adults and young men/women, not kindergarden. Trolls understand why they are sitting at 25% and I fail to see why they should be given a gesture of goodwill (one could argue that the gesture of goodwill is the warning system itself). Why should the moderators spend time babying said trolls? If posters sitting on 25% percent keep their mouth shut and contribute, they will be given there percentage back. There is no need to reward posters who do not deserve it and the moderators already spend enough time having to read through nonsense posts (not to mention that the moderators warn users in most cases before deducting percentages, so why should they waste anymore time explaining the rules of the forum?)

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Post by Guest Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:13 am

@Kick wrote:
Also, I hold pride in the fact I have 100% and feel giving banned posters 100% would somewhat tarnish that Pride.

Thumbs up

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Post by Forza Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:27 am

@Kick wrote:
Forza Rossoneri wrote:
@Kick wrote:Here is another problem with what you are saying, People who currently sit on 25% will intentionally get themselves banned so they can take the slap on their wrists and return to 100% instead of working hard to increase their rep by contributing to the forum. This will encourage trolling and other illegal acts in order for posters to get the easy way out.
Ah, but their 100% will still be viewed by the moderators as 25%. It will just appear to be set at 100% as a gesture of goodwill towards the returning offender.

Think about it, as it is, how many people on this forum get banned, only to immediately re-offend? Through proper communication of what is going on from the mods and the positive reinforcement of this apparent 100% rating, I think that we can have more people striving to contribute rather than set in a downward spiral of offence and re-offence.

While I understand the good will gesture, I don't see the point in it. If it's the same as 25%, it's only cosmetically different from 25% therefore only making the particular user happy.

I still feel promoting a poster to work hard for their rep is better than giving them a quick fix.

Also, I hold pride in the fact I have 100% and feel giving banned posters 100% would somewhat tarnish that Pride.

However, I'd love an admin to weigh in to get their opinion.
Yes, I totally understand that non-offenders like ourselves would feel annoyed that someone with a worse record has the same rating. That is only normal. However, it is up to us to understand that our pride comes second to the overall improvement and harmony of the forum. Our names, personalities and contributions remain intact.

Only that little percentage bar that is changed.

Through acceptance of these prodigal sons, our pride and standing should be enhanced rather than damaged. And for those who have returned, the creation of a pathway to redemption is laid out.

I would be equally interested in seeing what the moderators think of this discussion.

~~~

EDIT: In reply to Dom (who posted at the same time, so I missed it), I agree with you. Although, we are talking about two different types of people.

"The banned" are not just a category, they are individual people.

For some, the ones I refer to, they have been foolish in the past, but they are willing to reform and contribute with some encouragement.

For others, those battle-hardened, abrasive individuals you refer to, they should absolutely get their just desserts. There is no room for people who degrade the forum and waste the moderators' time.
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Post by Die Borussen Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:42 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:However, it is up to us to understand that our pride comes second to the overall improvement and harmony of the forum. Our names, personalities and contributions remain intact.
great words


i would like to give some examples for what we are implying

real kandahar was a poster with pretty much 3 hundred posts, until that day he was acting like a normal person, willing to contribute obviously liked to debate a lot but still was fair to the rules,
and that was for more than a month.
he trolled once or two i don't know,
--his warning level got reduced, then probably immediately he trolled again, and again until he got banned, all that in a small amount of time-!
now you see him getting banned right after he gets unbanned, every time..


right above you can see the different sides of his actions on the forum, his ''two sides''
a month of fair posts and months of sole trolling, now tell me that his first month as a poster was pure luck?
was it? no, he was willing to play the good guy cause he was being looked like one by the community, but that no more after his warning level started ticking in his and many poster's mind and followed the path of constant trolling

the guy you people call sepi, the damn troll that is, with his previous account he had like thousand of posts,
do you expect me to believe that the first thousand where all including that much trolling? cause if you do then i wont believe you.

if they see you as a troll, and your account is a reason for further promulgation, you yourself won't fall back, you won't play by the rules if the rules diminish your pride,
but you will improve if the community itself gives you a hand in the right direction, not by forcing you a sign that issues your bad side, but by treating you as an equal even if you don't act like one cause for the specific case the matter will only be temporary and fixable.
trolls that came to troll in the first place should be banned, but there is a difference between them and people who once gave a shit and played by the rules.

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Post by Casciavit Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:48 am

I don't see why a poster has to wait 6 months or more just to get his +25% back.

What if a poster has been good and that behavior goes unnoticed? He'll end up realizing that there is no point to post seriously and will troll.

Giving back quicker +25% is the way to go imo.
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Post by Guest Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:53 am

Man/Woman up and hold yourself accountable for your own actions. If you had a bad day, understand that was on you and take the appropriate steps (being a good poster) to get your warnin back. There are no handouts in the game of life.

There is no time period for getting warning back, just post and keep your mouth shut about warning level (not directed at you). I find it hilarious how much some of you desire a good warning level, yet your actions say otherwise. It is clear to me that this system is working because there is no need to want warning level back outside of wating the luxury of trolling without getting banned again.

As the Great Mole would say...lettuce be real!!!

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Post by Die Borussen Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:01 pm

it ain't working, many good posters have typically left, cause the community didn't do anything to help them and make them stay
no you could say to me that they pay for their own actions but they still are not here, they could be if the system was different

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Post by Guest Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Changing the system to benefit some, could turn other good posters off. Forums will always have to deal with the loss of posters, we can not save everyone. While I understand what you are trying to get at, I do not believe it is a necessary change. Those posters are perfect examples of people who can not responsibility of their actions - they did not leave because of warning level, they left because they disagreed with the reason they lost warning level (big difference).

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Post by Pedram Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:15 pm

I can understand them, It's frustrating when you see you're not trolling but your warning is still on 25%. while i understand mods are busy and can't keep an eye on everything i think they should try to react faster in these situations.

Keeping members on 25% for a long period will discourage them of behaving properly.
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Post by Lupi Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:17 am

hmm why all these about a rapist and murderers , its an online forum . Suffering is not necessary but one can wish for a more equal ground for debate . its the power of majority and i think somehow is fair
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