What the internet could learn from the Barcelona defeat

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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:15 am

Okay, the amount of press from one game is getting ridiculous.
Let's take a step back and look at what actually happened:
A top-club lost against another top-club.

Yes, Barca are, for years now, top dog, and I'd reckon they still are, but this shit happens: big clubs lose against other big clubs. This doesn't automatically mean that Milan is better than Barca in absolute terms, just like Bayern isn't automatically better than ManU right the second after they beat them.

The core lesson I want to instill with everyone is this:
The gap between the "best", and the "very good" is much, much smaller than you think.
If everyone could please remind themselves of this every once in a while, we would get less much less panicky reactions to everything.

And this goes for players too.
Yeah Messi is the best. That doesn't mean that, on a good day, basically any top player might have a better game than him. Whether it's Xaviesta outshining him in his own team, or him getting bullied by an excellent defensive player, hell he might even get shut down by some kind of Khedira on the odd day.

This happens.
Because this isn't FIFA, where the difference between 80 and 94 is some unbridgable gap. It's about split-second decisions. If a defender guesses the direction Ronaldo is going to run in 5 times in a row, a world class speedster is probably getting dispossessed 5 times in a row.

And just like Milan won just now, they can lose again tomorrow. Barca can win again. And even if Bayern have looked great every game so far, they can still find some embarassing way to crash out, if luck has it.

Please, stop the knee-jerkery, and remind yourselves that the level of play in pro football is very, very, high, and most teams that got out of the UCL group stages will be able to cause upsets. Just like every year.
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Post by fatman123 Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:24 am

Agreed

When comapring clubs its importnat to consider the big picture, the top 5 teams from PL, Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1, Superliga etc dont make up 99% of the clubs in the world, they make up 1%.

Once you start factoring in teams from the lowest teirs in Europe and small leagues outside of Europe then all of a sudden the gap between Barca and Wigan isnt even that big
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Post by barca 2011 Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:42 am

VivaStPauli wrote:Okay, the amount of press from one game is getting ridiculous.
Let's take a step back and look at what actually happened:
A top-club lost against another top-club.

Yes, Barca are, for years now, top dog, and I'd reckon they still are, but this shit happens: big clubs lose against other big clubs. This doesn't automatically mean that Milan is better than Barca in absolute terms, just like Bayern isn't automatically better than ManU right the second after they beat them.

The core lesson I want to instill with everyone is this:
The gap between the "best", and the "very good" is much, much smaller than you think.
If everyone could please remind themselves of this every once in a while, we would get less much less panicky reactions to everything.

And this goes for players too.
Yeah Messi is the best. That doesn't mean that, on a good day, basically any top player might have a better game than him. Whether it's Xaviesta outshining him in his own team, or him getting bullied by an excellent defensive player, hell he might even get shut down by some kind of Khedira on the odd day.

This happens.
Because this isn't FIFA, where the difference between 80 and 94 is some unbridgable gap. It's about split-second decisions. If a defender guesses the direction Ronaldo is going to run in 5 times in a row, a world class speedster is probably getting dispossessed 5 times in a row.

And just like Milan won just now, they can lose again tomorrow. Barca can win again. And even if Bayern have looked great every game so far, they can still find some embarassing way to crash out, if luck has it.

Please, stop the knee-jerkery, and remind yourselves that the level of play in pro football is very, very, high, and most teams that got out of the UCL group stages will be able to cause upsets. Just like every year.
Games are never won on paper and I'm not sure why everyone wrote off Milan just like that. Hopefully this wakes Barcelona up. And I don't see how some people directly blame Roura for the loss. IMO the biggest factor that led to Barca's loss was Milan's masterclass in defense/parking the bus. But you can't hate on it. They blocked out Barcelona And they took their chances. Props.
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Post by Zealous Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:43 am

I agree whole heartedly viva but I'd just like to point out that Khedira shutting down Messi has become a regular occurrence.
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Post by barca 2011 Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:44 am

And even with Zapata's clear handball, it would've ended 1-0, so I'm not too mad. Camp Nou will be a different story though.
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Post by the xcx Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:47 am

Barca was already beatable before the Milan clash...Its not like they set a record or something. 2-0 is not an comfortable result you would wanna go to Camp Nou. The best way to defeat your opponents is when they think they have a hope against you, thats what Barca loves to do. I wouldnt be surprised if we saw similar thing occured in CN.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:50 am

Zealous wrote:I agree whole heartedly viva but I'd just like to point out that Khedira shutting down Messi has become a regular occurrence.

Of course it is, once you have tactics adjusted the difference between a Messi and a Khedira in a direct duel isn't that impressive.

Also what xcx just wrote now: Barca was always beatable, it just didn't happen that often. And they're still great, even now that they've just lost.
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Post by Zealous Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:55 am

barca 2011 wrote:And even with Zapata's clear handball, it would've ended 1-0, so I'm not too mad. Camp Nou will be a different story though.

The handball call was 50/50 tbh. I've seen refereeing experts on TV say that not calling handball was the correct decision.
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Post by the xcx Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:55 am

Barca was always beaten is bs tbh.
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Post by Die Borussen Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:12 pm

partly agree, but given both teams current contrast in quality id say people's reaction is normal.
it was milan's this year's situation in combination with barca's demonic form that made the outcome of 2-0 seem impossible just before


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Post by the xcx Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:28 pm

The victory was compelling for Ac Milan, but the biggest test is yet to come.
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Post by Onyx Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:53 pm

It's possible for smaller teams to beat top teams, however that doesn't really mean the gap between them becomes small. By smaller teams I mean midtable, lower table etc.

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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:34 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:It's possible for smaller teams to beat top teams, however that doesn't really mean the gap between them becomes small. By smaller teams I mean midtable, lower table etc.

That's not my point, though. My point is that the gap between Barca "and the rest" is much, much smaller than people tend to think.
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Post by Swanhends Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:39 pm

Great post, agree entirely

Knee-Jerking is fun(ny) though :coffee:
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Post by barca 2011 Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:17 pm

Zealous wrote:
barca 2011 wrote:And even with Zapata's clear handball, it would've ended 1-0, so I'm not too mad. Camp Nou will be a different story though.

The handball call was 50/50 tbh. I've seen refereeing experts on TV say that not calling handball was the correct decision.
Ok, and I'm not trying to dwell on it because whats done is done but for what reasons have they said that not calling a handball is correct?
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:32 pm

barca 2011 wrote:Ok, and I'm not trying to dwell on it because whats done is done but for what reasons have they said that not calling a handball is correct?

GET ON TOPIC FFS,
that being said: an element of a handball is usually "intent", and there was hardly any intent to be had, because it happened to quickly. So it basically comes down to the ref deciding what a "natural" position for your hand is, and when you're moving at the time, it basically is a 50/50 call.
So you can easily argue: no intent = no handball, especially not in the penalty box.

NOW GET ON TOPIC BEFORE I GET OUT MY WHIPPING-WHIP, WHICH I GOT. FOR WHIPPING!
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:33 am

Replace Milan with Madrid, repeat.

Messi still knows how to play the football. Barca isn't done for. Mou is still not perfect. Tiki-taka can still be beaten, but does not suck.
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Post by Zealous Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:25 am

Well that's no fun ffs
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Post by barca 2011 Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:32 am

VivaStPauli wrote:
barca 2011 wrote:Ok, and I'm not trying to dwell on it because whats done is done but for what reasons have they said that not calling a handball is correct?

GET ON TOPIC FFS,
that being said: an element of a handball is usually "intent", and there was hardly any intent to be had, because it happened to quickly. So it basically comes down to the ref deciding what a "natural" position for your hand is, and when you're moving at the time, it basically is a 50/50 call.
So you can easily argue: no intent = no handball, especially not in the penalty box.

NOW GET ON TOPIC BEFORE I GET OUT MY WHIPPING-WHIP, WHICH I GOT. FOR WHIPPING!
Lol I just saw this now. And we've lost yet again but I just have to say, if you can argue no intent=no handball, just keep in mind that 9 times out of 10 it would've gotten called. Clearly I'm still bitter and trying to dwell! Moving on.
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Post by the xcx Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:34 am

Didint Madrid like already showed the gameplan how to play against Barca after 5-0?

No idea why add Milan in there.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:38 pm

Because this thread is from after the Milan game, not after the Madrid game?
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Post by Onyx Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:04 pm

Now that it's been 2 big games and 2 loses, wouldn't you say that it's because of not having a manager and a slight decline?

I mean it's evident watching Barca they aren't what they usually are. I think it would be better to judge when they're more stable.

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