If Arsenal don't win the CL/finish 4th, is it time for Wenger to get sacked/leave?

2012-13 dortmund wouldnt finish top 4 in the pl imo

Ganso wrote:2012-13 dortmund wouldnt finish top 4 in the pl imo

They did easily run over ManCity, though.

rwo power wrote:If Arsenal is buying cheaply, what do you make of Dortmund whose most expensive buys from 2005 to 2011 (with Reus in 2012 the notable exception) cost 5 mio Euros? You don't have to spend wildly to create a top squad. You just need good scouting.

Yeh but there's more elite teams in EPL than in Bundesliga.

Well, they are so elite that Schalke defeated Arsenal in their own home 2:0.

Results don't really mean much in terms of deciding who's the elite team or not imo. I mean smaller teams beat top teams, doesn't really mean they become elite teams.

[quote="rwo power"]

Ganso wrote:2012-13 dortmund wouldnt finish top 4 in the pl imo

Ajax destoyed City.Sporting eliminated them from EL last season.Corinthians won against chelsea and im sure none of these teams would make it to the PL top 4.Knockouts are made up of 1-2 games with a lot more into it like away goals,draw taking to penalties,more desire from the players etc league game and cl games are very different

Yohan Modric wrote:Results don't really mean much in terms of deciding who's the elite team or not imo. I mean smaller teams beat top teams, doesn't really mean they become elite teams.

So what is elite then? Perceived number of "world class" players in a team? In the end results do count after all as they decide who may play in CL and EL.

I guess it'd just be overall club ranking/prestige etc as well as WC players.

By results I mean something like Granada beating Real Madrid. Just because they beat Real Madrid, doesn't mean they become an elite club.

Well, is Arsenal an elite club then? They may have a well-sounding name, but their recent successes were limited after all.

True, their recent success doesn't show they're an elite club. However I'm sure they still want to win the big trophies. There's probably other clubs currently who were also good in the past, however can't compete for the big trophies due to lack of money etc. However I'm sure Arsenal are still capable of competing, buying players etc.

Arsenal's problem isn't the players the buy it's the players they sell. They're clearly selling better players than the ones they're bringing in.

Also can't believe some of you want Wenger gone, he's stubborn as hell and has his faults but there is no way in hell you're getting anyone better.

Just because a club can't get anyone better, doesn't mean they shouldn't ever get rid of the manager imo.

Yohan Modric wrote:True, their recent success doesn't show they're an elite club. However I'm sure they still want to win the big trophies. There's probably other clubs currently who were also good in the past, however can't compete for the big trophies due to lack of money etc. However I'm sure Arsenal are still capable of competing, buying players etc.

Well, IIRC, Arsenal is working with profit every season, so I wonder why they don't invest a little of it as trophies should actually increase the value of the brand and thus expand profits, too.

In Germany, you have the HSV and BMG who have a good name from their past successes, but who were forced to bake little buns due to lack of money. But step by step they are still working on improving their squads to return to the top tiers again.

rwo power wrote:Well, is Arsenal an elite club then? They may have a well-sounding name, but their recent successes were limited after all.

It doesn't help when your star players are leaving almost every summer. It also does not help when your rivals, can splash the cash on any player they want just so they can improve there team tbh.

Casciavit wrote:It doesn't help when your star players are leaving almost every summer. It also does not help when your rivals, can splash the cash on any player they want just so they can improve there team tbh.

So in a way they are in a similar situation as Dortmund were in the BL the last years. So maybe Arsène Wenger really has to figure out a better way to make the players see a real perspective and make them stay as they get more than huge sums of money in Arsenal? (You are aware that Arsenal actually pays way more than every BL club bar Bayern already?)

I think Arsenal maybe just lack quality player in certain positions?

Also can't believe some of you want Wenger gone, he's stubborn as hell and has his faults but there is no way in hell you're getting anyone better.

The problem with this thinking though is that you don't need a better manager than Arsene Wenger to achieve better results, as paradoxical as that sounds. A new manager might come in and be more successful in the transfer market and he might address some of the long-standing issues, which may lead to better results. You don't really know until you actually make the change.

Something's gotta change before they turn into Liverpool

The confidence of Bundesliga fans is

What I meant on Arsenal being cheap wasn't just about buying players though its keeping their current stars by actually giving them what a star player earns.
If you guys kept RVP, with this current team you could possibly be 2nd / 3rd.
and lol at people saying Dortmund couldn't make the top 4 in PL you guys overhype that league so much.

Yohan Modric wrote:I think Arsenal maybe just lack quality player in certain positions?

Bang, you got it.

Maybe there players are not as good as the English Media and there fans would have you believe.

I mean most La Liga, Serie A, BPL fans don't think Arsenal is an elite team but you can get sucked in to what the EPL is selling you. Unless your definition of "elite" is it being OK to not win anything for 8 years and selling your best players because they "want to win trophies" or "make more money".

Those 2 reasons should never be why your best players are leaving if you're elite. IT's just not how the football world works anymore especially in there league. Unless you want to call Valencia an elite team because they have a very similar story to Arsenal over the last 8 years.

Arsenal's wage scale is one of the very reason's there not elite as elite teams can hold onto there elite players while it's been shown time and time again that they are not willing to pay what it takes to have a certain kind of player on there team.

Now the assumption that Dortmond couldn't finish in the top 4 in the EPL is very reckless, and IMO just an improper thing to say.

I mean you're basically saying it's harder to get 4th in the EPL then win the Bundesliga. And I will grant you there was probably a good amount of truth to that 4-5 years ago but not recently.

Arsenal have a knack of getting beaten by teams with way less talent then them as well and people want to blame Wenger for that.

Is there any reason the team they put out today can't beat Blackburn? No. They put out a strong enough team to win today.

But what they have done through this selling of there best player every couple of years is having a team full of players who are not used to winning at a high level and don't know how to.

8 years is an eternity in football terms so I laugh when people say Arsenal are on the verge of turning into not an elite team where they can't climb out of it.

Let me let you in on a little secret, they are already there and have been there for some time now.

And they admit it. There thinking is that 4th place is a trophy. And that there best players don't deserve to make what other players of there skill level make. And they make no excuses for how they run there club, which is fine if this is what they want to be and it's obvious that it is. They say it themselves so believe them when there telling it to you. Stop pretending they are something they aren't.

Swanhends wrote:Something's gotta change before they turn into Liverpool

we still win trophies here and there despite being trash

Harry Redknapp wrote:

Swanhends wrote:Something's gotta change before they turn into Liverpool

we still win trophies here and there despite being trash

True, but I dont think its too bold to claim that most people would prefer to be in Arsenal's situation than Liverpools (or would they? )

Liverpools owners have put up the money, its just been managed terribly

Arsenal dont even get the chance to mis-manage their transfer funds cause they don't seem to have any

Swanhends wrote:

Harry Redknapp wrote:

Swanhends wrote:Something's gotta change before they turn into Liverpool

we still win trophies here and there despite being trash

True, but I dont think its too bold to claim that most people would prefer to be in Arsenal's situation than Liverpools (or would they? )

Liverpools owners have put up the money, its just been managed terribly

Arsenal dont even get the chance to mis-manage their transfer funds cause they don't seem to have any

Doesn't a billionaire own like 30% of Arsenal?

Swanhends wrote:

Harry Redknapp wrote:

Swanhends wrote:Something's gotta change before they turn into Liverpool

we still win trophies here and there despite being trash

True, but I dont think its too bold to claim that most people would prefer to be in Arsenal's situation than Liverpools (or would they? )

Liverpools owners have put up the money, its just been managed terribly

Arsenal dont even get the chance to mis-manage their transfer funds cause they don't seem to have any

I can't disagree.

We've been pissing money away since Summer of 2008.

n it appears to be a curse because managers and owners have come and gone since and it hasn't changed.

Really lacking a Daniel Levy type of person at the club.....That guy is the biggest boss out there

They're stagnating at the moment.Not competing for trophies or havent transitioned into a mid-table side either.They're in between but they've been stuck there for a while now.

Unless there's no clear backing up from the board ,i cant see whoever comes in doing a better job than him.

Besides which top bracket manager would be lured into coaching this current Arsenal team ? You know wage structure,transfer budget and the direction which this team is leading into ,it'll all be huge turn offs for them.In the end whoever's lined up to be Wenger's replacement would be a downgrade and that would be a massive risk to take cos even if he turns out to be some genius 'prodigious' manager ,the team is still isnt anywhere near good enough for title contention and ofcourse they run the risk of turning into another Liverpool with such a scenario.

There is no breathing space for them either with the City's,Chelsea's and and the United's of the league and their frivolous spending ways.One advantage Juve had prior to them reaching to the top was clubs around Juve were in a precarious financial situation and that enabled us to grow and become the team we are now.

Not the case in EPL though.The league in itself is setup in such a way that you either go all bonkers in the market or you perish.Thats the reality of the PL tbh.

I really dont think his sacking would help the club much imo.Just how i feel.