Re: Ozil vs Rooney

by The Franchise Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:06 am

Except thats not my arguement.

I see a connection between people who cant comprehend and those arguing against me.

Thats great, hes important for Madrid, yada yada. Still not better than Rooney. I dont need a lecture in how Madrid play, they have bored me to tears enough this season.

by Onyx Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:10 am

What's the argument? Rooney is better at more roles therefore he's better than Ozil?

by alexander mahone Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:21 am

Basically at any roles (including AM) Rooney's at least as good as Ozil (and even better), so Ozil doesn't really have any advantage despite the supposedly technical edge, at any role, I think that what he said.

I just want to add other than not so bad technique as his asset, Ozil actually doesn't even have an embarrassing work rate or fighting spirit. I don't think one can managed 3 seasons at Madrid as good as Ozil did with poor work rate or attitude and certainly not in a Mourinho's team. He run just as much as anyone else on the pitch, against United for example, he run almost as much as Khedira and Carrick, which were the only players run more than him on the pitch. It can certainly be appreciated more if he's a better athlete and tackler, but the work rate is there. If anyone watched the Rayo match Madrid played yesterday, we could spot Ozil quite busy helping defense on the flank, especially after the red card. He can certainly play multiple positions too, at wings or even deeper in midfield, has been successful, despite mostly he still used for playmaking regardless wherever he's put.

by The Franchise Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 am

I cant really say anything different, you just have to read man.

Rooney is better than Ozil at whatever you want him as.

You say Ozil is a better CAM (I dont know what that is by the way, I will just say number 10)..well Rooney plays that exact same role, only people call it a second striker or whatever. Its the same thing..he is playing off a main striker and he is getting deeper positions and making play. They do it different (which is why Ozil is apperently a CAM to people while Rooney is I dont know what people think he is), for me Rooney is better at what he does for various reasons..mostly, his goal threat...but various reasons.

Then when you add on Rooney can do other things, he has played as a 9 and scored 40 goals in a season....he can play as a defensive winger, done it against Barca and Madrid in his career already...then its just another dimension to his game Ozil doesnt have.

If Ozil was at the level of Iniesta or Messi, then I would ignore the fact Rooney can do those things..because Iniesta and Messi are overwhelmingly good at what they do..Ozil is not quite like that.

So despite Ozil being technically better, which I am not sure I even agree with totally...there is too much in Rooney's favour to ignore.

I think its pretty silly to say, well Ozil is a better passer and can dribble so hes better...its not enough.

by Valkyrja Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:59 am

How is Iniesta on a whole different level than Ozil ? Considering that Ozil outshined him in the last 5-6 clasicos. Iniesta being on a whole different level than Ozil is like saying that he is a better footballer than Ronaldo (some ppl here even said that)

by Onyx Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:25 am

Ozil is better at AM than Rooney because he's better at dribbling, better passing, more creative and better technique. Those are the key attributes for the AM role.

I don't think it's possible to compare 2 players who play different positions 'overall'. Imo Rooney is a forward, while Ozil is a midfielder. However when both are at AM, I prefer Ozil.

by The Franchise Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:28 am

likeastar wrote:How is Iniesta on a whole different level than Ozil ? Considering that Ozil outshined him in the last 5-6 clasicos. Iniesta being on a whole different level than Ozil is like saying that he is a better footballer than Ronaldo (some ppl here even said that)

First of all, not true.

Second, even if it was, who cares. Banaga been outshining everyone in our midfield when we play them...is he better?

MT Laughing

Im done with you man, you can either re-read what I said or dont, I aint got anything left.

by Onyx Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:37 am

I don't think I've actually said Rooney isn't better than Ozil overall. Rooney can probably offer more than Ozil, but imo that doesn't make him better.

If I had a team and had the option to choose between Rooney or Ozil at AM, I'd choose Ozil. To me it doesn't matter if he can be a goalscorer or a defensive winger. I only care about the AM spot in this situation.

It just depends on what you think makes one player better than another.

by The Franchise Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:41 am

And why AM?

Why are you fixated on position? Its irrelevant.

by Valkyrja Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:44 am

The Franchise wrote:
likeastar wrote:How is Iniesta on a whole different level than Ozil ? Considering that Ozil outshined him in the last 5-6 clasicos. Iniesta being on a whole different level than Ozil is like saying that he is a better footballer than Ronaldo (some ppl here even said that)

First of all, not true.

Second, even if it was, who cares. Banaga been outshining everyone in our midfield when we play them...is he better?

MT

Im done with you man, you can either re-read what I said or dont, I aint got anything left.

Still, you didn't give be an answer, how on Earth is Iniesta on a whole different level ?

by The Franchise Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:46 am

Because I watch both players play and one is quite a bit better.

I dont know what you want me to tell you really.

by Onyx Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:53 am

The Franchise wrote:And why AM?

Why are you fixated on position? Its irrelevant.

Because I'm choosing a lineup and picking between Ozil and Rooney?

by Valkyrja Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:55 am

The Franchise wrote:Because I watch both players play and one is quite a bit better.

I dont know what you want me to tell you really.

between "a bit better" and "on a whole different level" is a big difference.

by Schweinaldo06 Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:56 am

The Franchise wrote:I cant really say anything different, you just have to read man.

Rooney is better than Ozil at whatever you want him as.

You say Ozil is a better CAM (I dont know what that is by the way, I will just say number 10)..well Rooney plays that exact same role, only people call it a second striker or whatever. Its the same thing..he is playing off a main striker and he is getting deeper positions and making play. They do it different (which is why Ozil is apperently a CAM to people while Rooney is I dont know what people think he is), for me Rooney is better at what he does for various reasons..mostly, his goal threat...but various reasons.

Then when you add on Rooney can do other things, he has played as a 9 and scored 40 goals in a season....he can play as a defensive winger, done it against Barca and Madrid in his career already...then its just another dimension to his game Ozil doesnt have.

If Ozil was at the level of Iniesta or Messi, then I would ignore the fact Rooney can do those things..because Iniesta and Messi are overwhelmingly good at what they do..Ozil is not quite like that.

So despite Ozil being technically better, which I am not sure I even agree with totally...there is too much in Rooney's favour to ignore.

I think its pretty silly to say, well Ozil is a better passer and can dribble so hes better...its not enough.

Let's take a look at the facts.

Since the start of the 11/12 Season:
Ozil has scored/assisted 70 goals (24 G, 46 A)
Rooney has scored/assisted 70 goals (54 G, 16 A)

So right there, your argument that Ozil is half the player Rooney is made to look straight mental.

Ozil has created the most scoring chances in La Liga for the last three seasons, Rooney is not in the top 10 in England.

by Arquitecto Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:01 am

Schweinaldo06 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I cant really say anything different, you just have to read man.

Rooney is better than Ozil at whatever you want him as.

You say Ozil is a better CAM (I dont know what that is by the way, I will just say number 10)..well Rooney plays that exact same role, only people call it a second striker or whatever. Its the same thing..he is playing off a main striker and he is getting deeper positions and making play. They do it different (which is why Ozil is apperently a CAM to people while Rooney is I dont know what people think he is), for me Rooney is better at what he does for various reasons..mostly, his goal threat...but various reasons.

Then when you add on Rooney can do other things, he has played as a 9 and scored 40 goals in a season....he can play as a defensive winger, done it against Barca and Madrid in his career already...then its just another dimension to his game Ozil doesnt have.

If Ozil was at the level of Iniesta or Messi, then I would ignore the fact Rooney can do those things..because Iniesta and Messi are overwhelmingly good at what they do..Ozil is not quite like that.

So despite Ozil being technically better, which I am not sure I even agree with totally...there is too much in Rooney's favour to ignore.

I think its pretty silly to say, well Ozil is a better passer and can dribble so hes better...its not enough.

Let's take a look at the facts.

Since the start of the 11/12 Season:
Ozil has scored/assisted 70 goals (24 G, 46 A)
Rooney has scored/assisted 70 goals (54 G, 16 A)

So right there, your argument that Ozil is half the player Rooney is made to look straight mental.

Ozil has created the most scoring chances in La Liga for the last three seasons, Rooney is not in the top 10 in England.

Flawed argument.

You forget to add that Ozil has played 11 more games then Rooney within 11/12 along with the fact that a substantial amount of Rooney's games were placed in Central Midfield in sacrifice for United's midfield failures while Ozil has consistently played in an SS position, where the results are far more tangible.

Also forgot to mention that statistics to measure the worth and performance of a player is quite silly.

by Valkyrja Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:03 am

Arquitecto wrote:
Schweinaldo06 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I cant really say anything different, you just have to read man.

Rooney is better than Ozil at whatever you want him as.

You say Ozil is a better CAM (I dont know what that is by the way, I will just say number 10)..well Rooney plays that exact same role, only people call it a second striker or whatever. Its the same thing..he is playing off a main striker and he is getting deeper positions and making play. They do it different (which is why Ozil is apperently a CAM to people while Rooney is I dont know what people think he is), for me Rooney is better at what he does for various reasons..mostly, his goal threat...but various reasons.

Then when you add on Rooney can do other things, he has played as a 9 and scored 40 goals in a season....he can play as a defensive winger, done it against Barca and Madrid in his career already...then its just another dimension to his game Ozil doesnt have.

If Ozil was at the level of Iniesta or Messi, then I would ignore the fact Rooney can do those things..because Iniesta and Messi are overwhelmingly good at what they do..Ozil is not quite like that.

So despite Ozil being technically better, which I am not sure I even agree with totally...there is too much in Rooney's favour to ignore.

I think its pretty silly to say, well Ozil is a better passer and can dribble so hes better...its not enough.

Let's take a look at the facts.

Since the start of the 11/12 Season:
Ozil has scored/assisted 70 goals (24 G, 46 A)
Rooney has scored/assisted 70 goals (54 G, 16 A)

So right there, your argument that Ozil is half the player Rooney is made to look straight mental.

Ozil has created the most scoring chances in La Liga for the last three seasons, Rooney is not in the top 10 in England.

Flawed argument.

You forget to add that Ozil has played 11 more games then Rooney within 11/12 along with the fact that a substantial amount of Rooney's games were placed in Central Midfield in sacrifice for United's midfield failures while Ozil has consistently played in an SS position, where the results are far more tangible.

Also forgot to mention that statistics to measure the worth and performance of a player is quite silly.

Ozil played the first half of 11/12 as a CM...

by Schweinaldo06 Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:20 am

Arquitecto wrote:
Flawed argument.

You forget to add that Ozil has played 11 more games then Rooney within 11/12 along with the fact that a substantial amount of Rooney's games were placed in Central Midfield in sacrifice for United's midfield failures while Ozil has consistently played in an SS position, where the results are far more tangible.

Also forgot to mention that statistics to measure the worth and performance of a player is quite silly.

I agree that stats can be a bit misleading, but if you watch Madrid and can't tell that Ozil is the most valuable player on that team, then I can't help you.

Either way, I will stand by my statement that if I was starting a team today, I'd pick Ozil over Rooney without hesitation. And so would Alex Ferguson because he may be a stubborn old bastard, but he's not dumb.

by Pedram Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:03 pm

Wait a second, now people are saying Ozil is better than Iniesta ? :facepalm:

by Mamad Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:07 pm

Nope. Iniesta is better. only Messi is better than him atm imo.

by The Franchise Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:20 pm

Facts?

No, those are stats..you would be better served giving me a completely bias, ill logical argument than stats...I aint reading anyones opinion is stats is all you have.

Assists rofl

by Mr Nick09 Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:54 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Better scorer - doesn't really matter. That's like saying a forward is better than midfielder because he's a better scorer.

Passer - Ozil is a better passer.

Work rate - Work rate shouldn't determine whether one player is better than another player.

Can play out wide and in the middle - Ozil can play out wide and in the middle too. Again, versatility shouldn't really determine whether a player is better than another player.

Showing leadership, huge heart, demanding - Some more attributes that shouldn't determine whether a player is better than another player.

Overall, Ozil is the better footballer. Rooney probably has more work rate and leadership than Messi, Ronaldo and Iniesta.

this is the kind of asenine arguments you make that once again proved that you dont have a goddamn clue about football. please stop.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:33 pm

Nick

That was brutal Laughing

and a bit unnecessary.

by Casciavit Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:46 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nick

That was brutal and a bit unnecessary.

by Abramovich Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:56 pm

So true though Nick Proud

by Mr Nick09 Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:58 pm

yes probably. that's just how i felt when i read through this thread. but somtime i tire of reading the same video games inspired posts over and over. It's just crap, that's what it is. It's crap. and the fact that madrid fans in this thread are making comments that makes me wanna punch them in the balls, just make me glad me moved the madrid section outta here. Do this on my board and i will run your ass out. It's not about x or y posters being smarter or what not, this is just a lack of common decency, basic footy understanding. if you dont have it, go fcking learn. funny thing is, MT is probably in character, so i dont even feel bad, so whatever bro

by Mamad Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:58 pm

If someone is wrong just tell him he is wrong no need to mock.

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