How Many AM's Out there are "better" than Ozil?

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How Many AM's Out there are "better" than Ozil? Empty How Many AM's Out there are "better" than Ozil?

Post by AmarillaDirecta Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:17 am

So, when he arrived in madrid he was hyped to hell as most of the madrid squad was but he did a very good job none the less in what's probably his best season ever. He showed the world some of his biggest talents with some exquisite passing, some nice dribbles, and a nice assist tally in la liga, but as time has gone by more and more faults have risen such as some problems with consistency, stamina, defending, work rate, effectiveness, and a few more. Along with that, a number of AM's have risen into prominence and here is where i must ask to, just put it simply...

How many AM's out there, can be said to be more "valuable" to a team, or "better" than ozil?

Valuable depending on their traits, their positives, their negatives, their effectiveness, their ability to show up in big games, their ability to adapt to many schemes and take part in different roles, importance... There might be many factors into ozil's "problems" not down only to him, but simply put he was rated very highly some even calling him the next zidane Very Happy Very Happy but that aura if you will is disappearing imo. So beyond that "aura" how much do you think there is to him and how many packages out there are more valuable or you think can prove to be?

Gotze
Kroos
Mata
Silva
Isco
Oscar
etc..?
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Post by Kick Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:39 am

I'd say: Goetze, Kroos, Mata, Silva, Iniesta, perhaps Hazard and Cazorla too.

5 at least.
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Post by Nirgall Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:04 am

And Messi when he plays AM
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Post by Kick Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:09 am

I don't count Messi as an out and out AM.
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:24 pm

He's the best AM IMO. Goetze is a SS.
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:45 pm

None. Unless Iniesta counts.
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Post by Mamad Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:50 pm

Ozil is the best AM out there.
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Post by Adit Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:54 pm

The likes of hazard being thrown around here rofl

One bad year and people jumps ship? how about we look at his the former 3 yeears?
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:09 pm

Silva was worse that Ozil this year btw. Still, Ozil on top form is unplayable.
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Post by Nirgall Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:11 pm

Kick wrote:I don't count Messi as an out and out AM.

Dont see why not. He plays in that position for argentina.
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Post by alexander mahone Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:29 pm

AmarillaDirecta wrote:So, when he arrived in madrid he was hyped to hell as most of the madrid squad was but he did a very good job none the less in what's probably his best season ever. He showed the world some of his biggest talents with some exquisite passing, some nice dribbles, and a nice assist tally in la liga, but as time has gone by more and more faults have risen such as some problems with consistency, stamina, defending, work rate, effectiveness, and a few more. Along with that, a number of AM's have risen into prominence and here is where i must ask to, just put it simply...

Are you saying the season when he arrived (1st season) as his best season ever? Because it's not, it's the 2nd season. In the 1st season he's the first attacker Mou and everyone would drop/sub out whenever we played Barca. The 2nd season was the turning point and he started to become indispensable, playing key role in our good games vs Barca which affirmed our confidence vs them after the very bad lost in the 1st game under Mou.

Stamina is probably the problem in the 1st season and it's improved as time gone by, played 90 minutes in nearly all important matches since the 2nd season.

Consistency, I don't know, I'm a believer that no player is consistent if we scrutiny them enough and apply the same demanding standard when judging them. Some players just tend to get more *bleep* for this while other players with certain reputation can get away with this easily. Like Iniesta for example, pretty average in the 2nd half of the season and in CL but I don't see anyone give him *bleep* about being not consistent.

Defending & workrate certainly could be better but just like stamina it's actually improved as time gone by, not getting worse as the premise suggested.

Effectiveness, he's still more effective than many others and always assisted/scored in nearly all big games he played this past 2 season.
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Post by Toffer Harley Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:34 pm

alexander mahone wrote:
AmarillaDirecta wrote:So, when he arrived in madrid he was hyped to hell as most of the madrid squad was but he did a very good job none the less in what's probably his best season ever. He showed the world some of his biggest talents with some exquisite passing, some nice dribbles, and a nice assist tally in la liga, but as time has gone by more and more faults have risen such as some problems with consistency, stamina, defending, work rate, effectiveness, and a few more. Along with that, a number of AM's have risen into prominence and here is where i must ask to, just put it simply...

Are you saying the season when he arrived (1st season) as his best season ever? Because it's not, it's the 2nd season. In the 1st season he's the first attacker Mou and everyone would drop/sub out whenever we played Barca. The 2nd season was the turning point and he started to become indispensable, playing key role in our good games vs Barca which affirmed our confidence vs them after the very bad lost in the 1st game under Mou.

Stamina is probably the problem in the 1st season and it's improved as time gone by, played 90 minutes in nearly all important matches since the 2nd season.

Consistency, I don't know, I'm a believer that no player is consistent if we scrutiny them enough and apply the same demanding standard when judging them. Some players just tend to get more *bleep* for this while other players with certain reputation can get away with this easily. Like Iniesta for example, pretty average in the 2nd half of the season and in CL but I don't see anyone give him *bleep* about being not consistent.

Defending & workrate certainly could be better but just like stamina it's actually improved as time gone by, not getting worse as the premise suggested.

Effectiveness, he's still more effective than many others and always assisted/scored in nearly all big games he played the past 2 season.

this, so much.

some truly shocking stuff in here. hazard, carzorla, silva... good lord
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Post by Casciavit Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:42 pm

Valkyrja wrote:He's the best AM IMO. Goetze is a SS.

lol

Do you even know what SS means?
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Post by Ganso Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:46 pm

He is the best if you dont count iniesta.People complain about him not being consistent ( and i agree) but lets see how guys like Isco,Gotze Hazard etc would do in Madrid.

If you pay attention, most of these top ams have a system built around them,Ozil doesnt.I can totally see Hazard earning that spot soon though
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:16 pm

Ganso wrote:He is the best if you dont count iniesta.People complain about him not being consistent ( and i agree) but lets see how guys like Isco,Gotze Hazard etc would do in Madrid.

If you pay attention, most of these top ams have a system built around them,Ozil doesnt.I can totally see Hazard earning that spot soon though

Exactly, the whole attack being built around Ronaldo thus forcing Benzema deeper has limited Ozil.

So many players at Madrid would be better elsewhere because of Ronaldo rofl
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:08 pm

They should either move Ronnie to CF or have him play like a proper squad player, but that's a different debate, I think.
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Post by Mamad Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:16 pm

There was a reason Ozil played 5 times better for his NT than Madrid this season.

Mou pushed ozil to wings this season and it is not good for him. we didn't use him well.

He is the best if you dont count iniesta.People complain about him not being consistent ( and i agree) but lets see how guys like Isco,Gotze Hazard etc would do in Madrid.

If you pay attention, most of these top ams have a system built around them,Ozil doesnt.I can totally see Hazard earning that spot soon though

This.
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:19 pm

I remember Zonalmarking.net saying, after the Dortmund-Real match (1st leg, in Dortmund), that Götze "out-özil'ed Özil", meaning that Götze got to play in the center, and do what Özil usually does best.

Özil was still dangerous, but his influence was massively limited for no reason, and Götze showed what Özil could have done if he was accomodated tactically.
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Post by Lupi Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:15 pm

Very Happy i prefer sneijder to all of them
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:14 pm

No mention of Fabregas ?

That was a no brainer
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Post by AmarillaDirecta Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:28 pm

alexander mahone wrote:
AmarillaDirecta wrote:So, when he arrived in madrid he was hyped to hell as most of the madrid squad was but he did a very good job none the less in what's probably his best season ever. He showed the world some of his biggest talents with some exquisite passing, some nice dribbles, and a nice assist tally in la liga, but as time has gone by more and more faults have risen such as some problems with consistency, stamina, defending, work rate, effectiveness, and a few more. Along with that, a number of AM's have risen into prominence and here is where i must ask to, just put it simply...

Are you saying the season when he arrived (1st season) as his best season ever? Because it's not, it's the 2nd season. In the 1st season he's the first attacker Mou and everyone would drop/sub out whenever we played Barca. The 2nd season was the turning point and he started to become indispensable, playing key role in our good games vs Barca which affirmed our confidence vs them after the very bad lost in the 1st game under Mou.

Stamina is probably the problem in the 1st season and it's improved as time gone by, played 90 minutes in nearly all important matches since the 2nd season.

Consistency, I don't know, I'm a believer that no player is consistent if we scrutiny them enough and apply the same demanding standard when judging them. Some players just tend to get more *bleep* for this while other players with certain reputation can get away with this easily. Like Iniesta for example, pretty average in the 2nd half of the season and in CL but I don't see anyone give him *bleep* about being not consistent.

Defending & workrate certainly could be better but just like stamina it's actually improved as time gone by, not getting worse as the premise suggested.

Effectiveness, he's still more effective than many others and always assisted/scored in nearly all big games he played this past 2 season.
I personally simply dont think hes impressed more than he did in the first year, and i did not mean that his defending has got worse, i mean that problems have surfaced that many maybe didnt consider in his beginning days here, but again that may not be down to only him of course.

@ Real Gunner, fabregas may be another ozil but maybe even worst when it comes to how hes being used in barca atm, dont think he should be put into contention atm for that reason.
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Post by urbaNRoots Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:53 pm

I would take Fabregas, Gö*ze, Kroos and Iniesta (if!) over him in my team. I'm probably forgetting someone aswell. I believe those four are better than Özil when everyone is at his best.
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Post by alexander mahone Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:43 am

AmarillaDirecta wrote:I personally simply dont think hes impressed more than he did in the first year, and i did not mean that his defending has got worse, i mean that problems have surfaced that many maybe didnt consider in his beginning days here, but again that may not be down to only him of course.

It was a nice debut season, surprised he adapted so fast and so well myself, but that's it, the 2nd year had more quality in many ways for me.

There's no season where his defending/workrate/stamina level got exposed as much as in the 1st year, the very reason he's substituted/benched for Lass or Pepe whenever we played Barca in early days. It's improved, and hence he's trusted more the 2nd year onward. Not saying it doesn't need further improvement, but it's hard to believe anyone hasn't thought about it since his beginning year.
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Post by Donuts Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:14 am

I'd rather not have a 50 minute player, his stamina is crazy bad probably from all the cigarettes he smokes
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Post by Kamikaze692 Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:02 am

I still believe Ozil's best position is a CF/SS, a modern variation of the classic trequartista position. He has the ability to score goals regularly, as evidenced by his exploits with Germany in the WC Qualifiers, whenever he was played as a false 9. I think if he lives up to his potential, he can be the new Platini/ Zico.

Still, its funny how Cazorla, Hazard et al are mentioned in the sane sentence as him. eco smile Might as well include Oscar in this list then eco smile
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