Change formation 3-4-3

eelir wrote:
I do not think this was a mistake, look at The Franchise's rep. This guy got it exactly how he wanted it. Either some Cesc fan or some RM band-wagoner trying to spark a fight here.

You could well be right. I said it very speculatively. If this is true then after a fairly nice beginning to life at the new forums we are soon to enter the dark days once again.

It would be quite entertaining if you played this in the Audi Cup actually, you may as well make it as open as possible. Apart from that it's insane.

3-4-3 and sacrifice one of the main components in Pep's winning formula -- the width the fullbacks give us?

No thanks. I'll take Dani Alves every day of the year over another player in the middle, 3 genius' is enough.

Three man backline cost us a tie vs Chelsea. To concede a goal like Ramires before HT is unacceptable. 4-3-3 next season please with real central forward, time to stop being so Messidependent. Villa as CF if he stays.

I understand 3-4-3 for weak teams and due to injuries, but for any other reason... I have no words!

No it didnt.

Not taking chances cost us vs Chelsea.

No Villa as CF either.

Terrible finishing was the main reason, but 3-man backline and VV performance also. We need to be less Messidependant in next season and he must stop taking FK and pens. Also he needs to rest a bit during LL games vs lower sides, Pep must sub him sometimes, I don't care that he wants to win Pichichi and Ballon D'Or over CR. Who wants to bet that even this tired Messi will play vs Rayo and in other dead rubber games in La Liga? I am sure he will.

No.

Explain how 3 at the back cost us a goal? Dont confuse mistakes and formation, they are not the same.

Puyol is very tired/old/slow to play in a 3 man backline. He has been outpaced many times recently.

I can see a proper LB (with the help of Puyol maybe) stopping Ramires in the end of the first half. Also what Kizz said. 3-4-3 does not allow these overlaps that were our treadmark move in the past

matpol wrote:Three man backline cost us a tie vs Chelsea. To concede a goal like Ramires before HT is unacceptable. 4-3-3 next season please with real central forward, time to stop being so Messidependent. Villa as CF if he stays.

It wasn't the three-line def that was at fault, it was the players implementing it. Both Puyol and Busquets were left for dead by Ramires, they are just too darn slow for that formation. Pep should have realised this a long time ago, but unfortunately, he seems to be rather close-minded.

Brady2Moss wrote:

matpol wrote:Three man backline cost us a tie vs Chelsea. To concede a goal like Ramires before HT is unacceptable. 4-3-3 next season please with real central forward, time to stop being so Messidependent. Villa as CF if he stays.

It wasn't the three-line def that was at fault, it was the players implementing it. Both Puyol and Busquets were left for dead by Ramires, they are just too darn slow for that formation. Pep should have realised this a long time ago, but unfortunately, he seems to be rather close-minded.

Clueless again.
It wasnt either of Busquets or Puyol's fault.

matpol wrote:Terrible finishing was the main reason, but 3-man backline and VV performance also. We need to be less Messidependant in next season and he must stop taking FK and pens. Also he needs to rest a bit during LL games vs lower sides, Pep must sub him sometimes, I don't care that he wants to win Pichichi and Ballon D'Or over CR. Who wants to bet that even this tired Messi will play vs Rayo and in other dead rubber games in La Liga? I am sure he will.

3 at the back didnt cost us the goal.Masch foolishly rushing out leaving a giant gaping hole at the back cost us the goal.
Had Pique been playing there he wouldnt have left his position and we would be through.
Playing 3 at the back its suicidal to come that far out and if you come that far out you simply have to get the ball.
Masch showed his inexperience there.

People need to stop automatically blaming 3 at the back for every goal conceded...you have to defend properly, 3 at the back, 4 at the back or whatever.

alexjanosik wrote:

matpol wrote:Terrible finishing was the main reason, but 3-man backline and VV performance also. We need to be less Messidependant in next season and he must stop taking FK and pens. Also he needs to rest a bit during LL games vs lower sides, Pep must sub him sometimes, I don't care that he wants to win Pichichi and Ballon D'Or over CR. Who wants to bet that even this tired Messi will play vs Rayo and in other dead rubber games in La Liga? I am sure he will.

3 at the back didnt cost us the goal.Masch foolishly rushing out leaving a giant gaping hole at the back cost us the goal.
Had Pique been playing there he wouldnt have left his position and we would be through.
Playing 3 at the back its suicidal to come that far out and if you come that far out you simply have to get the ball.
Masch showed his inexperience there.

I agree with your analysis, but off course, playing 3 at the back was partly at fault. With 4 at the back, Machete can rush out pressing with much less danger as there is still another CB.

40% Mascherano 40% 3 at the back 20% Valdes

What I don't understand, is that playing with 343 hasn't proved to be better in attack than 433, while we clearly leaked more goals, so why not stop it for once and forever?

IMO the 343 costed us the season. A tactic that has been unreliable and hasn't allowed us to play consistenly with it, that provoked many players playing out of position and made our team confused and never fully adapted during the season.

While I agree that Masche was at fault, I think the only fault Pep had from the beginning of the season was that there was no sub-Pique. We all knew before the season started that any combination of Puyol-Masche is unreliable, and we played the 3 last games with that. I'm sure had Pique been there it would have made a big difference, but we should really have another tall, ball-playing CB.

All we need is a good pre-season to fully integrate Sanchez and Fabregas into the squad and we will be back to being the best next season.

kiranr wrote:
All we need is a good pre-season to fully integrate Sanchez and Fabregas into the squad and we will be back to being the best next season.

My fear is there are the Euros now... So half our team will have another ordinary preseason. Also the OLympics.

On the plus side of the Euros the team will do its preseason in Europe, rather than Asia or the US.

BarcaKizz wrote:

kiranr wrote:
All we need is a good pre-season to fully integrate Sanchez and Fabregas into the squad and we will be back to being the best next season.

My fear is there are the Euros now... So half our team will have another ordinary preseason. Also the OLympics.

How many games are Euros if a team makes it to the final? 7?

Mascherano is not a natural CB. His positioning is not as good as Pique in top form. Pique has lapses but he's been in and out of form.

Mascherano was also clueless on the Drogba goal at stamford bridge, as well as the AC milan goal.

He was brilliant as CB for us, leading up to these 3 games.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:While I agree that Masche was at fault, I think the only fault Pep had from the beginning of the season was that there was no sub-Pique. We all knew before the season started that any combination of Puyol-Masche is unreliable, and we played the 3 last games with that. I'm sure had Pique been there it would have made a big difference, but we should really have another tall, ball-playing CB.

this

It’s true that no matter 3 or 4 the defenders have to mark properly.
Thing is that with 4 in the back, there can be double teams and marking can be more effective especially when you play with DMs as CBs.
Also the wings seem to suffer in attack too without full backs

Four at back well tbh, Alves really is a winger that leaves 3 men at the back and rarely can make a difference in defense with counter attacks. If we defended properly we wouldn't have lost. mascherano foolishly went into the challenge that led to a big hole. Puyol one on one with Alves tracking back from his attacking run. Old Puyol vs Ramires... Who is going to win?

paxtonpale wrote:Alves really is a winger

I disagree to some extent. I think D.Alves is suited to manning the entire right flank. This season he either had to stay up front as a winger/forward, play like a midfielder or as a CB in a three man defense. While he is not bad at any of these things, he really is at his best doing what he used to do for us up to 2010-11. That's perhaps the main reason why he like some of our other players has been below his erstwhile standards this season. Besides personally I love seeing him take the ball out from the back and move on the right flank from end to end and that hardly happened this season.

Dani Alves is not a winger in any way, shape or form.

free_cat wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:

matpol wrote:Terrible finishing was the main reason, but 3-man backline and VV performance also. We need to be less Messidependant in next season and he must stop taking FK and pens. Also he needs to rest a bit during LL games vs lower sides, Pep must sub him sometimes, I don't care that he wants to win Pichichi and Ballon D'Or over CR. Who wants to bet that even this tired Messi will play vs Rayo and in other dead rubber games in La Liga? I am sure he will.

3 at the back didnt cost us the goal.Masch foolishly rushing out leaving a giant gaping hole at the back cost us the goal.
Had Pique been playing there he wouldnt have left his position and we would be through.
Playing 3 at the back its suicidal to come that far out and if you come that far out you simply have to get the ball.
Masch showed his inexperience there.

I agree with your analysis, but off course, playing 3 at the back was partly at fault. With 4 at the back, Machete can rush out pressing with much less danger as there is still another CB.

40% Mascherano 40% 3 at the back 20% Valdes

What I don't understand, is that playing with 343 hasn't proved to be better in attack than 433, while we clearly leaked more goals, so why not stop it for once and forever?

I fail to see how Masch making a mistake and showing his inexperience is any of the system's fault.The goal was almost fully his fault.