Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
+19
sportsczy
Abramovich
The Franchise
RealGunner
Lex
Highburied
Swanhends
Arquitecto
julias
free_cat
Valkyrja
Art Morte
Rev
urbaNRoots
the xcx
Jay29
Onyx
Mr Nick09
Great Leader Sprucenuce
23 posters
Page 1 of 3
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
At the moment when i watch Arsenal, Cazorla looks easily subdued and struggles to find space and i don't feel it has anything to do with him being tired or anything like that....
He looks like he prefers to drift into central areas rather than actual having his set position in the middle.
For this reason i would put him on the right and allow him freedom to drift inside a lot like how Silva has, Mata has, Hazard has and on occasion Ben Arfa has.
I feel this would suit him a lot more and make it a lot more difficult for teams to pick him up and suffocate him and give him more space.
While doing this i would move Wilshere to AM and this would allow Arsenal to create more chances an stop performances like today from being a regular occurrence.
At the moment Arsenal's two most creative players are restricted and i believe it is stopping them from being their most potent on a consistent level.
They have other problems like Arteta needing a physical partner, Sagna seemingly going backwards, for some stupid reason not picking Mertesacker and Podolski and Walcott not being a proper fit for the team in my view.
But i think a lot of Arsenal's consistency problems are down to lacking ideas in the final third and i think these subtle changes will breathe fresh air in Cazorla and Arsenal's performances.
He looks like he prefers to drift into central areas rather than actual having his set position in the middle.
For this reason i would put him on the right and allow him freedom to drift inside a lot like how Silva has, Mata has, Hazard has and on occasion Ben Arfa has.
I feel this would suit him a lot more and make it a lot more difficult for teams to pick him up and suffocate him and give him more space.
While doing this i would move Wilshere to AM and this would allow Arsenal to create more chances an stop performances like today from being a regular occurrence.
At the moment Arsenal's two most creative players are restricted and i believe it is stopping them from being their most potent on a consistent level.
They have other problems like Arteta needing a physical partner, Sagna seemingly going backwards, for some stupid reason not picking Mertesacker and Podolski and Walcott not being a proper fit for the team in my view.
But i think a lot of Arsenal's consistency problems are down to lacking ideas in the final third and i think these subtle changes will breathe fresh air in Cazorla and Arsenal's performances.
Great Leader Sprucenuce- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 68989
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
that's exactly how he has played all his career mole. Pellegrini has never truly used him in a central role, or at least he has always been shifting around a lot. At villarreal, the attacking 2 had freedom to occupy any space ahead of them, and at Malaga, he often played next to the DM and in wide areas. He isnt a classic n10 that owns the hole like Valeron, he is a mobile playmaker. Actually, we arent seeing much of those classic playmaker in spain.
It's a sound proposal, but i would say that if you play Cazorla on the right, then you need a fulback that will occupy the space on that right wing. It fits Arsenal idea of making the pitch small in the middle ultimately i think. But yeah, that opens up the question of who is playing next to Arteta if Cleverley moves up.
It's a sound proposal, but i would say that if you play Cazorla on the right, then you need a fulback that will occupy the space on that right wing. It fits Arsenal idea of making the pitch small in the middle ultimately i think. But yeah, that opens up the question of who is playing next to Arteta if Cleverley moves up.
Mr Nick09- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 31600
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
----------DM/B2B----Arteta
-----Cazorla----Wilshere-----Goalscoring winger
-------------------CF
?
-----Cazorla----Wilshere-----Goalscoring winger
-------------------CF
?
Last edited by Yohan Modric on Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Onyx- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 40130
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
I just said this in our section. Cazorla can be very influential playing centrally when our midfield isn't having to deal with much pressure and when the two behind him are at 100% fitness, but a lot of time we're just not in this situation.
It's certainly worth a go playing him on the left instead of Podolski, who's a mixed-bag at best on the side, so he can drift inside and allow Gibbs to overlap; Gibbs is better in the final third than Sagna or Jenkinson. Have Wilshere as the central playmaker with Arteta and a new midfielder behind him.
Seems our priority this window though is more attacking players and not a holding player, unfortunately.
It's certainly worth a go playing him on the left instead of Podolski, who's a mixed-bag at best on the side, so he can drift inside and allow Gibbs to overlap; Gibbs is better in the final third than Sagna or Jenkinson. Have Wilshere as the central playmaker with Arteta and a new midfielder behind him.
Seems our priority this window though is more attacking players and not a holding player, unfortunately.
Jay29- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
I thought so Nick i didn't really pay much attention till now, but i noticed Cazorla at Malaga and Villarreal when i did watch him moving a lot more and drifting from out to in a lot more....
As for the RB occupying the space i think both Jenkinson and Sagna can do that they may not be Marcelo or Alba type fullbacks but they can at least provide width and an option for a pass i feel.
As for Arteta's partner that is the key for this to work i feel because atm you are restricted to Ramsey or Coquelin so maybe postponing any idea of doing this until Arsenal actually buy a physical partner for Arteta that they sorely need.
I do feel both Wilshere and Cazorla are restricted by their roles at the moment though.
Or maybe for now keep Wilshere where he is and try Ramsey as the AM after all that is his position and he's never had an extended run there.
As for the RB occupying the space i think both Jenkinson and Sagna can do that they may not be Marcelo or Alba type fullbacks but they can at least provide width and an option for a pass i feel.
As for Arteta's partner that is the key for this to work i feel because atm you are restricted to Ramsey or Coquelin so maybe postponing any idea of doing this until Arsenal actually buy a physical partner for Arteta that they sorely need.
I do feel both Wilshere and Cazorla are restricted by their roles at the moment though.
Or maybe for now keep Wilshere where he is and try Ramsey as the AM after all that is his position and he's never had an extended run there.
Great Leader Sprucenuce- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 68989
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Also, any destroyer cant just play for Arsenal, he needs to have skills, which isnt easy to find
Mr Nick09- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 31600
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Cazorla had more of a free will in Malaga, now hes limited due to tactical decisions by Wenger.
Weird to see this as being brought up now as it was quite obv. from the beginning
Weird to see this as being brought up now as it was quite obv. from the beginning
the xcx- Banned (Decade)
- Club Supported :
Posts : 7704
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Completely agreed.
Even when Cazorla plays centrally he likes to go on either wing to find space and link up with the wide player, so it makes perfectly sense to just play him a little wider so he can cut in and do his stuff.
I like how Mata and Silva can do that and I really believe Cazorla can do it aswell (he's done it before).
Another reason why I support this is because Wilshere just has to move permanently to AM which would leave space for a physical beast in centre midfield which would help Arteta, greatly. I believe Wilshere is being wasted there kinda like Leitner is at Dortmund. Both have the passing/stamina/high work-rate qualities which makes you believe they're perfectly made to play there but they're not. Their dribbling qualities and final pass suffer playing box to box in midfield so they have to concentrate too much in defending which makes Arsenal suffer attacking wise.
Even when Cazorla plays centrally he likes to go on either wing to find space and link up with the wide player, so it makes perfectly sense to just play him a little wider so he can cut in and do his stuff.
I like how Mata and Silva can do that and I really believe Cazorla can do it aswell (he's done it before).
Another reason why I support this is because Wilshere just has to move permanently to AM which would leave space for a physical beast in centre midfield which would help Arteta, greatly. I believe Wilshere is being wasted there kinda like Leitner is at Dortmund. Both have the passing/stamina/high work-rate qualities which makes you believe they're perfectly made to play there but they're not. Their dribbling qualities and final pass suffer playing box to box in midfield so they have to concentrate too much in defending which makes Arsenal suffer attacking wise.
urbaNRoots- First of his name
- Club Supported :
Posts : 17221
Join date : 2011-08-11
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Mr Nick09 wrote:
It's a sound proposal, but i would say that if you play Cazorla on the right, then you need a fulback that will occupy the space on that right wing. It fits Arsenal idea of making the pitch small in the middle ultimately i think. But yeah, that opens up the question of who is playing next to Arteta if Cleverley moves up.
Anyway,pretty much agree with everything said here.
It's evident that we're too easy to figure out.
Teams pack the middle against us and it leaves us with Poldi(who's not the best fit in our system for that LW position) and Oxlade.(who still needs a bag of experience to fully utilize his talents)
The most rational thing would be to buy a DM (Capoue my preference) and shift Cazorla outwide or buy Adrian or someone who's 100% comfortable on the wings because it's clear for everyone that we're missing that spark from the wide areas at times.
Wenger's got the whole month to find someone.Let's hope we don't end up with another Gervais.
Rev- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 1708
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 29
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
I agree with what some have said already, Wilshere deserves a chance to play AM. What he might lose to Cazorla in technique he more than makes up for with his movement, composure and vision. What's keeping Wilshere further back is that he actually can play CM just as well whereas Cazorla can not.
Art Morte- Forum legendest
- Club Supported :
Posts : 18314
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 39
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Arteta
Diaby --- Wilshere
Ox --- CF --- Cazorla
Diaby --- Wilshere
Ox --- CF --- Cazorla
Valkyrja- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 11356
Join date : 2011-11-10
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Diaby is done for imo. Too injury prone to make a difference, Arsenal should just look for a replacement.
the xcx- Banned (Decade)
- Club Supported :
Posts : 7704
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
I completely agree. I've been pointing out since some weeks ago that Cazorla should play in a wing, with a midfield trio composed of vermaleen, arteta and Wilshire.
However, I think I think it would be a better fit on the left with gibs runs, leaving right flank for Walcot and flopolski or giroud on top.
However, more than tactics, arsenal is lacking quality. players like arteta, vermaelen, merte, flopolski, giroud, Ramsey and gervais are not good enough to be regular starters for a champions league team in the premier.
However, I think I think it would be a better fit on the left with gibs runs, leaving right flank for Walcot and flopolski or giroud on top.
However, more than tactics, arsenal is lacking quality. players like arteta, vermaelen, merte, flopolski, giroud, Ramsey and gervais are not good enough to be regular starters for a champions league team in the premier.
free_cat- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
^^ I have been saying that for years and I totally agree with the idea of moving Cazorla out wide. I also think him and Wilshere would link better if he was in a wider role.
julias- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 1121
Join date : 2011-06-12
Age : 36
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
free_cat wrote:I completely agree. I've been pointing out since some weeks ago that Cazorla should play in a wing, with a midfield trio composed of vermaleen, arteta and Wilshire.
However, I think I think it would be a better fit on the left with gibs runs, leaving right flank for Walcot and flopolski or giroud on top.
However, more than tactics, arsenal is lacking quality. players like arteta, vermaelen, merte, flopolski, giroud, Ramsey and gervais are not good enough to be regular starters for a champions league team in the premier.
Free, Arteta and Mertesacker have been excellent this and last season.
Without Arteta, Arsenal's midfield looks lost as his passing, vision and consistency and not to mention his defensive cover is vital for Arsenal. It doesn't help that he has had to look a little subdued since he has no midfield partner. Way off the mark if you feel he isn't good enough.
Mertesacker has been Arsenal's best CB this season.
Arquitecto- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 12631
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Agreed on both points
Also #justice4Coq
Also #justice4Coq
Swanhends- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8451
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Art Morte wrote:I agree with what some have said already, Wilshere deserves a chance to play AM. What he might lose to Cazorla in technique he more than makes up for with his movement, composure and vision. What's keeping Wilshere further back is that he actually can play CM just as well whereas Cazorla can not.
Imo Wilshire is at least as technical as Cazorla. Why you see him less technical?
free_cat- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Mertesacker has been one of the best CB's in the PL this season he's far from a problem.
Vermealen if anything is a weak link, i agree with Free on most of those names as starters but not Mertesacker and Arteta.
Both are definitely good enough.
Vermealen if anything is a weak link, i agree with Free on most of those names as starters but not Mertesacker and Arteta.
Both are definitely good enough.
Great Leader Sprucenuce- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 68989
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Mertesacker has been one of the best CB's in the PL this season he's far from a problem.
Vermealen if anything is a weak link, i agree with Free on most of those names as starters but not Mertesacker and Arteta.
Both are definitely good enough.
I'd make a case for Giroud as well. After carrying Montpellier to the Ligue 1 followed by adapting to a new and more competitive league, 9 goals and 6 assists isn't half bad in a system which isn't exactly bringing out the strengths of the players.
Arquitecto- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 12631
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Its not the problem with Cazorla playing in central area, imo he is not having enough support from Wilshere and Arteta because they have to stay deep all the time because none of them can hold midfield on their own.
Solution: Defensive Midfielder
DM Wilshere
Cazorla
When Cazorla is isolated, Wilshere moves forward while DM holds midfield. Problem solved.
Solution: Defensive Midfielder
DM Wilshere
Cazorla
When Cazorla is isolated, Wilshere moves forward while DM holds midfield. Problem solved.
Highburied- Banned (Permanent)
- Club Supported :
Posts : 2630
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 42
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
@ Arq
Well yeah but i would still look to giving him some more competition.
Well yeah but i would still look to giving him some more competition.
Great Leader Sprucenuce- Forum Legend
- Club Supported :
Posts : 68989
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
free_cat wrote:Art Morte wrote:I agree with what some have said already, Wilshere deserves a chance to play AM. What he might lose to Cazorla in technique he more than makes up for with his movement, composure and vision. What's keeping Wilshere further back is that he actually can play CM just as well whereas Cazorla can not.
Imo Wilshire is at least as technical as Cazorla. Why you see him less technical?
What I've seen of them this season, Cazorla has got the deft touch in him more often than Wilshere does. That Spanish groove.
Art Morte- Forum legendest
- Club Supported :
Posts : 18314
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 39
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
I don't like arteta. He tries to be Xavi, but a poor man's xavi is a pretty lame and useless player with too many easy passes and unable to escape pressure, losing the ball... maybe he could be useful but playing as cm not dm.
Maybe merte has been good this season, but I know the player enough to state he is not good enough, especially for a high line team.
Maybe merte has been good this season, but I know the player enough to state he is not good enough, especially for a high line team.
free_cat- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
Mertesacker is definitely good enough. He's been one of the best and most consistent defenders in the league so far this season.
We don't play with a high line exclusively any more, either. A lot of the time, we've played deeper to help see out games, especially at the start of the season. Even in a higher line, Mertesacker has performed very well and has only been showed up for his lack of pace rarely.
We don't play with a high line exclusively any more, either. A lot of the time, we've played deeper to help see out games, especially at the start of the season. Even in a higher line, Mertesacker has performed very well and has only been showed up for his lack of pace rarely.
Jay29- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31
Re: Would like to discuss something Tactically to do with Arsenal and Cazorla
So, in other words, you don't think Arteta is good enough because.....you don't like him
Such crucial insight and knowledge is invaluable to the forum. Bravo
Such crucial insight and knowledge is invaluable to the forum. Bravo
Lex- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 15099
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics
» Was Cazorla moving to Arsenal a mistake?
» Reading 2 - 5 Arsenal: *insert Santi Cazorla name pun here*
» Have Barca revolutionised football tactically?
» Is Roberto Martinez tactically more gifted than Pep?
» Wenger is old
» Reading 2 - 5 Arsenal: *insert Santi Cazorla name pun here*
» Have Barca revolutionised football tactically?
» Is Roberto Martinez tactically more gifted than Pep?
» Wenger is old
Page 1 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Today at 3:03 pm by halamadrid2
» Serie A 2024/2025
Today at 7:17 am by Vibe
» Erik Ten Hag Sack Watch
Today at 7:10 am by Glory
» The Official Real Madrid Matchday Thread 24 - 25
Today at 5:30 am by Clutch
» Mbappe to Real Madrid - Official
Yesterday at 9:55 pm by Harmonica
» The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club IV
Yesterday at 12:33 pm by Harmonica
» MLS-thread
Yesterday at 6:44 am by Harmonica
» Champions League '24/25
Yesterday at 6:40 am by Thimmy
» GL NBA fantasy 24-25
Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:08 pm by Warrior
» General Games Discussion
Wed Oct 02, 2024 5:19 pm by Thimmy
» Premier League 2024/25
Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:48 am by Glory
» Jose Mourinho Sack Watch: Fenerbahce Edition
Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:47 pm by futbol_bill
» La Liga 2024/25
Mon Sep 30, 2024 1:05 pm by halamadrid2