Copa America: Milan Stars' Performances

the whole brazil team sucked yesterday, propably silva & lucio were the best of the bunch, ganso was the worst, terrible terrible performance really, pato didn't play well, neymar was slightly better and robinho was just poor...


anyway to pato's defence i think it wasn't his fault, he was played out of position, he's not a classical number 9 aka ronaldo, sheva etc. he's at his best as second striker given space and freedom to roam.

i'm getting a little hesetitated about ganso though, i was just baffled about his terrible his first touch and ball control was in the game, he misplaced most of his passes and was easily muscled off the ball whenever he was challenged by other players, i know i can't judge him from one game especially that he's coming off a long term injury but still, he was piss poor, i'll defenitely be keeping a close eye on him in the coming matches and hopefully he'll improve otherwise i think pastore is going to be a much safer bet....

IrasMaldinista wrote:

IzzyC08 wrote:Oh I assumed that a thread where we can discuss players performances meant that if they played badly we can criticize them, but now I know only to comment if they're playing well.

No one is saying Ganso is a miserable player but there are certain attributes you need to make it at a big club and I'm just stating that Ganso was poor today, and being able to find the correct spaces in a game are very important and his injury didn't affect him mentally. Playing on a national level is a true test for a player and tactically things change.

Well, I don't regret and/or take back what I said, but I think the all-capital font and the way I attacked Ganso's critics at the beginning of my post offended Izzy.

Please don't take any, because none was intended.

Hey, funny you should say that red line!

So, who was the best player in the world again? Messi, eh?

Has he ever been [consistently] 70% of the player that runs over i.e. chews Barcelona's oppositions week-in-week-out?

No, I don't think so. And accordingly, I believe a player can't necessarily be as good for his country as he is for his club.


Also, MTD says with this game in mind, he better not enter Milanello.

Let's look at it from another perspective: We are all aware of his fantastic qualities, don't you think we can take advantage of his last game in addition to the next potentially weak performances he will give in Copa America 2011?

I'm cocksure Galliani was dancing his ass off after watching Ganso's subdued, quiet display, he must have been like, "Here goes another nice $3m off the boy's heavy price...Heeheeheeheehee!"


Criticize the guy all you want, but I, for one, only judge a player when he's at the peak of his powers.

iras, i see you're a huge fan of ganso, this is nice and all, i like him too and i think he can develop into something great but as of now, he's nowhere as good as you make him out to be, to be honest i think he's overrated and i'm not just talking about last nights's game. i've been following him for a while and i can say that he's not much of a dribbler and doesn't have a lot of pace, no kaka-style breathtaking dribbling and mazy runs, his ball control isn't that great either, defenitely not in zidane and messi's league. he's at his best when it comes to spraying passes, he has a great vision even though he misses alot of them.


i do prefer pastore, he's also 21 but far ahead of ganso IMO, he's already proven in italy and is techniqually superior to ganso, my only gripe with him is that i don't want argentines in my milan, i always prefer brazilians...

I think this is the first time I've agreed with Fadi in a long time.

....well almost I still don't think we need Pastore.

who even compared him to kaka in the first place?lol

He just came back from injury.he had a bad game last night,every player has them,even messi.lets get over it

Ganso wrote:who even compared him to kaka in the first place?lol

He just came back from injury.he had a bad game last night,every player has them,even messi.lets get over it

No one here recently, but that doesn't change the fact that when people keep hearing this guy's name the first thing to pop in their heads is, "Our New Kaka", even though he really isn't anything like him.

Ganso is more like Zidane than Kaka.

Personally I don't care who he gets compared with. It doesn't matter.

Fadi wrote:



i do prefer pastore, he's also 21 but far ahead of ganso IMO, he's already proven in italy and is techniqually superior to ganso, my only gripe with him is that i don't want argentines in my milan, i always prefer brazilians...

Holy Cow, is this the same Fadi, FADI 299????

i recall before i went off to get married about how inconsistent Pastore was whenever i complimneted him in the highest regard and would like him to become our new #10.

Things have changed in a couple of weeks lol

I don't think we should be in the business of trying to find "replacements" for players we had in the past. Kaka is Kaka. Ganso is Ganso. Nasri is Nasri. Etc.

Déja vu.

Two years ago when Gattuso skipped much of his beneficial rehabilitation programme to be there for Confed Cup 2009, and later during his pathtic 2009-10 season following his laughing stock world cup, I saw things that other people could also see, but refused to.

Carlo Garganese called Ringhio finished and my fellow posters here wanted him either dead, off-loaded or retired.

Since I had seen his grit and determination before, it was easy-peasy to predict a sensational resurgence, and it happened under Allegri's harsh trainings and tactical methods.

The guy single-handedly destroyed our derby game (the infamous 4-0 embarrasment) and regularly received 3.5 and 5.0 goal.com ratings for his limited number of games, then last season, he played most of the games and single-handedly defeated Juve in the second leg.

Rino was 32 when he turned it all around and yes, it took him two years to do so.

Ganso is only 21, it will definitely take him much shorter to rediscover the magic touch.

I don't wanna brag or anything, but if that's what it's named, then so be it.
But I am surely so proud of the way I didn't join the "kill Gattuso" campaign, and how he didn't let me down.

Now, knock yourself out questioning Ganso's abilities and talent instead of form and fitness.

I've seen convincing enough displays to not make the mistake of underestimating the guy.

He'll be even better than he was before.

Glad to say I wasn't a member of the "Kill Gattuso" party. Still doesn't mean we can't criticize Ganso and this situation is so different it's not worth comparing the two. No offence but I feel you're comparisons on this subject really haven't been well thought out.

elmickio wrote:

Fadi wrote:



i do prefer pastore, he's also 21 but far ahead of ganso IMO, he's already proven in italy and is techniqually superior to ganso, my only gripe with him is that i don't want argentines in my milan, i always prefer brazilians...

Holy Cow, is this the same Fadi, FADI 299????

i recall before i went off to get married about how inconsistent Pastore was whenever i complimneted him in the highest regard and would like him to become our new #10.

Things have changed in a couple of weeks lol

elmickio buddy i do actually think that pastore is a bit overrated too but IMO he's a more accomplished and proven player than ganso is, i guess i got carried by all the ganso hype on our forum and in general, truth is i don't think he's as good as some here make him out to be, defenitely not 30m good, he's worth 15-20m max and even at that it's a risk....

what really shocked me about ganso last night is how terrible his touch on the ball really was, so easily muscled off the ball, he looked extremely poor techniqually, i'm just shocked....

Ganso wrote:who even compared him to kaka in the first place?lol

He just came back from injury.he had a bad game last night,every player has them,even messi.lets get over it

that's no excuse!, i've never seen messi playing this bad and i don't even like messi, i actually used to compare pato with him....
ganso was actually the worst for brazil yesterday, it has nothing to do with stamina, injuries or anything, he jus displayed very poor technique and i think that even his passing is being overrated by people...

i'll reserve my judgment on him until next game but people need to open their eyes and see thing the way they are...

Fadi wrote:

Ganso wrote:who even compared him to kaka in the first place?lol

He just came back from injury.he had a bad game last night,every player has them,even messi.lets get over it

that's no excuse!, i've never seen messi playing this bad and i don't even like messi, i actually used to compare pato with him....
ganso was actually the worst for brazil yesterday, it has nothing to do with stamina, injuries or anything, he jus displayed very poor technique and i think that even his passing is being overrated by people...

i'll reserve my judgment on him until next game but people need to open their eyes and see thing the way they are...

how is injury not an excuse?He needs match fitness,you cant play amazing when you havent played a match in a while.Anyone who plays football knows that

besides,take in count that they parked the bus heavily and that this is his 2nd national team game,it takes months for a club with a new manager to evolve(remember how madrid players sucked on mourinhos's first games?),imagine a nt?it takes several months,maybe years like spain.

btw,he didnt have THAT much of an awful match as you guys are saying he did give some nice passes,could have assisted 2 goals if it werent for the dreadful finishing

Hamsik > Ganso, that's my opinion

IzzyC08 wrote:Glad to say I wasn't a member of the "Kill Gattuso" party. Still doesn't mean we can't criticize Ganso and this situation is so different it's not worth comparing the two. No offence but I feel you're comparisons on this subject really haven't been well thought out.

You know what? I got an idea.

I list my reasons why my comparison IS "well thought out".
You list yours (if you feel like it) to show me why I'm not making sense.


1. They both sustained ruptured Anterior cruciate ligament.
2. They both rushed things up to return for their club and country.
3. They both were, technically or mentally, somewhat key players for their respective teams.
4. They both were considered great players before their injuries.

(I really like to argue this way Izzy, and you rest assured you won't offend me as long as there's no personal insult involved, and I'm sure there won't be any.)


Also, in answer to Fadi, I gotta say you're ignoring facts.

If you've ever played the game yourself, you'll see that the difference between your first game in a month and the second is unbelievable.
Then the difference between your second and third game is huge.
And so on.

I'm talking as an amateur Futsal player now.

I struggled with a very annoying calf injury for 4 months, I constantly returned and got injured again.

I decided to not come back unless I am in a better shape than before.

So I spent one month of strengthening the goddamn muscle and after making the return, it took me 2 months to get back to normal. In those two months, I barely hit the top speed, most of my passes were imprecise and my finishing was wayward.
Additionally, my ball control was obviously a joke.

Believe me Fadi, it all depends greatly on your fitness, I couldn't believe it myself.


Alright alright, I'm an amateur, but I'm human and humans' bodies work in a similar way.


Ganso needs to play regularly until October, maybe November to be the player he once was.
It takes time, a lot of time and one can't help it.

IrasMaldinista wrote:

IzzyC08 wrote:Glad to say I wasn't a member of the "Kill Gattuso" party. Still doesn't mean we can't criticize Ganso and this situation is so different it's not worth comparing the two. No offence but I feel you're comparisons on this subject really haven't been well thought out.

You know what? I got an idea.

I list my reasons why my comparison IS "well thought out".
You list yours (if you feel like it) to show me why I'm not making sense.


1. They both sustained ruptured Anterior cruciate ligament.
2. They both rushed things up to return for their club and country.
3. They both were, technically or mentally, somewhat key players for their respective teams.
4. They both were considered great players before their injuries.

(I really like to argue this way Izzy, and you rest assured you won't offend me as long as there's no personal insult involved, and I'm sure there won't be any.)


Also, in answer to Fadi, I gotta say you're ignoring facts.

If you've ever played the game yourself, you'll see that the difference between your first game in a month and the second is unbelievable.
Then the difference between your second and third game is huge.
And so on.

I'm talking as an amateur Futsal player now.

I struggled with a very annoying calf injury for 4 months, I constantly returned and got injured again.

I decided to not come back unless I am in a better shape than before.

So I spent one month of strengthening the goddamn muscle and after making the return, it took me 2 months to get back to normal. In those two months, I barely hit the top speed, most of my passes were imprecise and my finishing was wayward.
Additionally, my ball control was obviously a joke.

Believe me Fadi, it all depends greatly on your fitness, I couldn't believe it myself.


Alright alright, I'm an amateur, but I'm human and humans' bodies work in a similar way.


Ganso needs to play regularly until October, maybe November to be the player he once was.
It takes time, a lot of time and one can't help it.

One diffrence but a HUGE one, Gattuso was/is proven and showed all the world what he is capable of doing before his injury.

ganso is 21.........,he has all the time he needs to prove himself

Ganso wrote:ganso is 21.........,he has all the time he needs to prove himself

Exactly he has all the time he needs to prove himslef, till then for me and millions of fans that have'nt see him play before we base our judement on what we saw last night and that was bad (I guess we agree), coppa america is still in the begining lets see how he does as a Milan fan if we are getting him I hope he is name among "team of the competition".

well yeah,i honestly think our defense alone can carry us to the final,so well see him quite a lot

btw,seems like robinho will get benched if he doesnt perform well next game or lucas marcelinho impresses in training

Disagree with some things here.

Ganso is in fact as good as he is made out to be but you must understand the injury that he faced was quite a nasty one as what this does is dwindle your confidence, and deduce the technique temporarily as "form is temporary class is permanent" is utter nonsense as practice is the only thing that matters as even a week without experience in practice and matchs results in performances and capability no where near the potential.

Ganso has played many times well for Brazil as yesterday many performed under par solely based on the immense hype and expectations as don't forget these are young minds who are not used to this. The anxiety results in poor form as without the confidence and with hesitance, great players can look like amuri.

Rest assured I can guarantee great performances from ganso.

peru just scored against uruguay,see what m talking about?

maybe Venezuela actually played well

As far as Gattuso, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay. I always appreciated the efforts and heart he put into his playing. Leonardo was a problem for a lot of our players... he had his favorites and he was a terrible tactician and trainer.

We also switched formations. There are more explanations then just that "Gattuso turned it around". There are other factors that had a hand in why he improved in form.

People, people calm down. This was Ganso's SECOND GAME BACK FROM INJURY, and a pretty nasty injury too. We should not judge him by one match, Messi, Cavani, Valencia, Lavezzi, Tevez, Alves etc all had bad games in the Copa America, does that make them lesser players? No, if Ganso continually flops in the coming matches then some question marks can be raised but this is just one game, and his second game back from a knee injury.