Re: Busquets vs. Schweinsteiger

by peerless Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:45 am

Busquets has a marginally better passing accuracy than Schweinsteiger, even factoring in how Schweinsteiger is a DLP whereas Busquets is a sideways passer.

by Arquitecto Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:37 am

VivaStPauli wrote:Short Passing: Tie
Tackling: Tie, slight edge to Piggy maybe
Shooting: Schweinsteiger
Long Passing: Schweinsteiger
Dribbling: Biscuits, but only by a very little bit
Vision: Schweinsteiger
Marking: Tie, though only because Schweinsteiger has a lot of shit to do, if he was the sole anchor, he'd shit all over Biscuits
Manliness: Schweinsteiger by far
Diving: Biscuits by far

With dribbling it's easy to think that Busquets is a lot better, but IMHO that's just because Schweini is a more direct dribbler, he doesn't do much in terms of stepovers or anything, but I've seen him run through 2 or 3 other midfielders without ever losing the ball a lot of times, in fact Schweinsteiger almost never gets disposessed this season. I'll exclude last season for the purposes of judging Piggy since he was never 100% match fit.
In 2010, first half of 2011, and since the start of this season he has been unplayable, you just can't take the ball off him, and you can rarely get past him. He's been a great goal scoring threat, and his vision from deep is boss. He's up there with Xavi in terms of vision from deep, imho, though Xavis style and technique make him the better playmaker.

Busquets is good at one thing, and that's stopping an attack, be it with a nice tackle, or by diving to draw a foul, and he does it well. But other than that, he's an overrated little gimp with great technique. The Angel di Maria of defenses. Wouldn't want that impish tit anywhere near any team I like. Especially not when I look at Spain and think about how I could have Xabi... :X

Judging from the seasons where Schweinsteiger was actually fit, he just shits all over Biscuits. He's better at everything. Though it's a dumb comparison. I'd rather compare Biscuits to Gustavo if we go for Bayern players, and Biscuits got a decent claim to be better here, or compare Piggy with Xavi, who is a better playmaker while Piggy is more complete.

Honest question, how much have you actually seen Busquets play? And on what basis is Scweinstieger more complete then Xavi?

On topic:

Short Passing: Busquets
Tackling: Busquets
Shooting: Scweinsteiger
Long Passing: Busquets
Dribbling: Busquets
Vision: Busquets
Marking: Busquets
Footballing Intelligence: Busquets by a mile
Big game performances: Busquets by a mile

Its quite obvious Busi's reputation for his theatrics blind people for what a brilliant player he is.

Busquets has been world class for 3+ years now while Schweinstieger hasn't since Van Gaal left. When Scweinstieger isn't even better then Toni Kroos then how is the starter for the best club and international team behind him?

Fact is Bastian is an excellent midfielder but Busquets has played on levels Schweinstieger hasn't aside from one year.

by The Franchise Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 am

All I want to say is, what do people base Bastian having better vision and long passing?

Busquets doesnt play long passes through choice, not through lack of skill. Its like Xavi all over again.

Do people honestly think, Busquets can pass excellent if its 30m, but extend it to 50m and it would go into the first row of the stands?

He doesnt have great vision based on? Not playing final passes? He plays in front of the defence, if he there was a final pass on from that position (there hardly ever is) he isnt even allowed to think about attempting it, as is our style of play.

by jibers Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:47 am

I really don't know why basti is rated so highly. Ever since wc 2010 there has been this hype train. He is a level below busquets. dani don't agree abpout busquets long passing. Most of the l. Passes I have seen him attempt have Ben over hit and flopped.

by The Franchise Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:49 am

He barely attempts any for anyone to have any firm belief in how well he does it. I think thats the point.

by jibers Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:05 am

Yea but Dani I'm making draw my conclusion based on the evidenceI have seen. From that he doesn't look like he is particularly good at long balls.

by Donuts Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:14 am

Buscuit retains possession, better short passing, better dribbling, and defending overall meaning Marking, tackling, Positioning, and gets more opportunities with headers due to height.
So Buscuit vs Schweinsteiger in the DM spot? whats to think about.
And massive lol at Schweinsteiger even being compared to Xavi, when he wins world cup or Euro's OR UEFA we can talk about that comparison.

by jibers Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:21 am

Donuts wrote:Buscuit retains possession, better short passing, better dribbling, and defending overall meaning Marking, tackling, Positioning, and gets more opportunities with headers due to height.
So Buscuit vs Schweinsteiger in the DM spot? whats to think about.
And massive lol at Schweinsteiger even being compared to Xavi, when he wins world cup or Euro's OR UEFA we can talk about that comparison.

I suppose Arbeloa is greater than Nesta then Rolling Eyes

by Toffer Harley Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:52 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
juventus101 wrote:Schweinsteiger is literally better at every aspect. The only one Busquets might have a slight edge in is marking, but its still close.

No he is not.Schweinsteiger is better at shooting.Everything else Busquets is better.

Busquets vs. Schweinsteiger - Page 2 Tumblr_m79z3rhspc1rs6axp

by Donuts Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:35 pm

jibers wrote:
Donuts wrote:Buscuit retains possession, better short passing, better dribbling, and defending overall meaning Marking, tackling, Positioning, and gets more opportunities with headers due to height.
So Buscuit vs Schweinsteiger in the DM spot? whats to think about.
And massive lol at Schweinsteiger even being compared to Xavi, when he wins world cup or Euro's OR UEFA we can talk about that comparison.

I suppose Arbeloa is greater than Nesta then

Except Xavi has been top three players in all major tournament he takes part in? Whilst every tournament Schweinsteiger is in you see him always crying on the floor after defeat.

by DuringTheWar Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:00 pm

sweinsteiger is more dynamic, he takes the game to his opponent, and is a goal threat. Busquets has no speed, no power, no strength, he is good with the ball in tight areas, and his anticipation is quite impressive, very static player, for his specific role he is better, but sweinsteiger is clearly a better player who can be the engine of his team and clearly has a better range of passing. If busquets secretly is a passing genius but is just not allowed to show it, well tough, until he shows it sweinsteiger has better vision and distance on his passes

by The Sanchez Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:57 pm

Short Passing: Busquests
Tackling: Busquests
Shooting: Schwieni
Long Passing: Busquests
Dribbling: Busquests
Vision: Busquests
Marking: Busquests

Schweini is a box-to-box centre mid but Busquests is the best holding mid in the world. tbh, if Busquests moved to CM, he would still be better Schwieni... Im not even kidding...

by Le Samourai Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:35 pm

The Franchise wrote:All I want to say is, what do people base Bastian having better vision and long passing?

Busquets doesnt play long passes through choice, not through lack of skill. Its like Xavi all over again.

Do people honestly think, Busquets can pass excellent if its 30m, but extend it to 50m and it would go into the first row of the stands?

He doesnt have great vision based on? Not playing final passes? He plays in front of the defence, if he there was a final pass on from that position (there hardly ever is) he isnt even allowed to think about attempting it, as is our style of play.

How far do you want to extend this argument? This could be extrapolated infinitely to the point where any player could do anything but simply don't do it through choice.

Schweinstiger does something, Busquets doesn't do it.

That to me is enough tangible proof to make generalizations and draw conclusions.

What you're saying about him could be entirely true (I've seen glmses of it, particularly vs Portugal when Xavi was subbed) but I don't think people need to take into account vague possibilities in making their analysis.

On topic : I don't particularly like either, Busquets lacks attacking agency (before he was in his current position where he needs to literally fill gaps in defense and has no time or responsibility in attack). Nonetheless I think he's been better than Schweinstiger for quite some time just as an overall player.

by The Franchise Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:29 pm

Le Samourai wrote:
The Franchise wrote:All I want to say is, what do people base Bastian having better vision and long passing?

Busquets doesnt play long passes through choice, not through lack of skill. Its like Xavi all over again.

Do people honestly think, Busquets can pass excellent if its 30m, but extend it to 50m and it would go into the first row of the stands?

He doesnt have great vision based on? Not playing final passes? He plays in front of the defence, if he there was a final pass on from that position (there hardly ever is) he isnt even allowed to think about attempting it, as is our style of play.

How far do you want to extend this argument? This could be extrapolated infinitely to the point where any player could do anything but simply don't do it through choice.

Schweinstiger does something, Busquets doesn't do it.

That to me is enough tangible proof to make generalizations and draw conclusions.

What you're saying about him could be entirely true (I've seen glmses of it, particularly vs Portugal when Xavi was subbed) but I don't think people need to take into account vague possibilities in making their analysis.

On topic : I don't particularly like either, Busquets lacks attacking agency (before he was in his current position where he needs to literally fill gaps in defense and has no time or responsibility in attack). Nonetheless I think he's been better than Schweinstiger for quite some time just as an overall player.

You can take it as far as you like, but I think common sense should apply at some point.

If you have to choose someone, then choose and so be it. Obviously its logical to choice the person who does make the passes over something who doesnt attempt them. But im talking a very individual, specific case here.

As I said, do you honestly believe over 30 Busquet can pass accurately, but over 50m it will go to shit?

Moreover, anyone who has played football knows that more often than not if your an excellent short passer you are a capable long one. Name me one player who can pass superbly well short, but is often off target with long passes?

Long passes as a whole shouldnt even be considered a part of rating anyway, how many does even the most well known long passers do a game? And more importantly, how many actually put the receiver in a more advantageous position?

by Le Samourai Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:33 am

Denilson immediately jumped into my mind lol.

But you look through a range of defensive midfielders who don't attempt long passes, it's not because it's the best option each and every time, but because them attempting long passes is a liability. Old school DM's like Makalele who looked perfectly competent passing short chose to stay within their limits.

I don't know if it's possible to find a particularly revealing example. Fact is, if you're a good short passer and a poor long passer you just aren't going to attempt them, if you keep hitting off target long passes you'll likely get subbed.

As for Long passes on a whole it facilitates a whole range of things. Quicker switches stretch defenses, advancing the ball quickly (provided you have runners) leave defenses no time to setup. Sometimes defenses come up when the ball is in a less dangerous zone (say the opponents half) and strikers prefer the ball played over the top because that's the easiest point in time to get behind a defense. It gets you specific advantages, and perhaps more importantly flexibility , which you can never have enough of.

Just the propensity of a deep player to try these sorts of things can completely change the way a team approaches the oppositions buildup.

by free_cat Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:34 pm

Busquets is a much better DM and CM than Schweinsteigger. Regards.

by alexjanosik Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:18 am

VivaStPauli wrote:Short Passing: Tie
Tackling: Tie, slight edge to Piggy maybe
Shooting: Schweinsteiger
Long Passing: Schweinsteiger
Dribbling: Biscuits, but only by a very little bit
Vision: Schweinsteiger
Marking: Tie, though only because Schweinsteiger has a lot of shit to do, if he was the sole anchor, he'd shit all over Biscuits
Manliness: Schweinsteiger by far
Diving: Biscuits by far

With dribbling it's easy to think that Busquets is a lot better, but IMHO that's just because Schweini is a more direct dribbler, he doesn't do much in terms of stepovers or anything, but I've seen him run through 2 or 3 other midfielders without ever losing the ball a lot of times, in fact Schweinsteiger almost never gets disposessed this season. I'll exclude last season for the purposes of judging Piggy since he was never 100% match fit.
In 2010, first half of 2011, and since the start of this season he has been unplayable, you just can't take the ball off him, and you can rarely get past him. He's been a great goal scoring threat, and his vision from deep is boss. He's up there with Xavi in terms of vision from deep, imho, though Xavis style and technique make him the better playmaker.

Busquets is good at one thing, and that's stopping an attack, be it with a nice tackle, or by diving to draw a foul, and he does it well. But other than that, he's an overrated little gimp with great technique. The Angel di Maria of defenses. Wouldn't want that impish tit anywhere near any team I like. Especially not when I look at Spain and think about how I could have Xabi... :X

Judging from the seasons where Schweinsteiger was actually fit, he just shits all over Biscuits. He's better at everything. Though it's a dumb comparison. I'd rather compare Biscuits to Gustavo if we go for Bayern players, and Biscuits got a decent claim to be better here, or compare Piggy with Xavi, who is a better playmaker while Piggy is more complete.

Your post couldnt be more wrong.
I dont see how Schweini has a better range of passing.At short passing,Xavi apart dont think there is anyone better than Busquets on the planet.Same goes for one touch passing.Xavi is the only one who can be considered a better one touch passer than Busquets.
When it comes to long passing,as dani explained its through choice that Barca midfielders do short passes.But Busquets has shown good range in his passing this season with both feet.He has even played some long through balls this season like one yesterday against Spartak.
On vision again,Busquets has to be rated higher.For the simple fact that he does most of his passes one touch with unerring accuracy.That requires high vision of the field.Schweini doesnt have it to the same degree.
Also dont see how Schweini is a better tackler and marker than Busquets.
Busquets has kept all the best attackers of the planet in his pocket. This is a player who has owned Ozil so many times that the German escapes to the wings in Clasicos to make even a semblance of an impact.

by guest7 Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:44 am

I'm really questioning how you're thinking right now Dani.

Being a excellent short passer doesn't make you a great long passer. Anyone who has played football knows making a accurate long pass requires a different technique and power compared to a short pass. The longer the pass the harder the pass. They're very different. Di Maria for example is a great long passer but his short passing is very average.

Schweini is the better long passer for me becouse he actually shows it. Busquets doesn't do long passes nearly enough for me to rate it. I won't rate something I haven't seen from him yet, that's just the way it is. Unless Busquets shows it, Schweini is the better passer.

by FennecFox7 Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:01 am

Se7en wrote:I'm really questioning how you're thinking right now Dani.

Being a excellent short passer doesn't make you a great long passer. Anyone who has played football knows making a accurate long pass requires a different technique and power compared to a short pass. The longer the pass the harder the pass. They're very different. Di Maria for example is a great long passer but his short passing is very average.

Schweini is the better long passer for me becouse he actually shows it. Busquets doesn't do long passes nearly enough for me to rate it. I won't rate something I haven't seen from him yet, that's just the way it is. Unless Busquets shows it, Schweini is the better passer.

This

Long passing is a completely different technique.

But busquets is better then bastian at everything besides shooting. And its not because busquets is amazing; I hardly rate schwini, he's far too inconsistant in his passing imo and overrated by most.

by juventus101 Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:01 am

This thread is ridiculous. I really cant wait till the day Messi gets a long term injury and Barca get shown up as being wayyyyyyy overrated and a one man team. Busquets must be the most overrated player in the world. Hes good at tackling and making a quick pass to Xavi. Its a joke that people thinj hes better than in my opinion the 3rd best CM in the world at dictating play and overall (after Pirlo and Xavi) and possibly the most complete one (either Schweini, Vidal, Marchisio, or Yaya).

by The Franchise Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:14 am

Of course its a different technique, what kind of statement is that?

But again, name one player who can play good short passes but cant play good long ones.

Di Maria a good long passer? You realise long pass and cross are two different things right?

Just name one player.

by jibers Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:22 am

Michael Carrick

by The Franchise Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:26 am

Carrick can pass it long and short. He cant do either when pressured.

Yet again, another who rarely ever passes it long. I see a trend.

Anyone who doesnt pass it long, "cant" do it.

by Valkyrja Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:02 am

The Franchise wrote:Of course its a different technique, what kind of statement is that?

But again, name one player who can play good short passes but cant play good long ones.

Di Maria a good long passer? You realise long pass and cross are two different things right?

Just name one player.

I haven't seen Messi playing long passes, and he is a great short passer.

Schweinsteiger is one of the most overrated players in the world, but so is Busquets.

by DuringTheWar Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:31 am

The Franchise wrote:
But again, name one player who can play good short passes but cant play good long ones.

Just name one player.

If they cant play good long passes they arent going to show us

by Onyx Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:51 am

Why are Busquets and Schweinsteiger even being compared? One is a DM and another is a CM.

They have different roles.

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