Big 3: Pele, Maradona, Cryuff

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Post by The Sanchez Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:56 am

IMO, these three players were simply at another level of football. Discuss which one is better...
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Post by culefan Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:53 am

i am only 23 yrs old..so i am not fortunate enough to see knowledge i have about them is from -clippings and what i have read.i dont think you can say that these 3 were a level above all the others.historically speaking generally it is acknowledged that there have been 4 kings di stefano,pele,cryuff and maradona..but then there are also others.what about garrincha?a player generally assumed as the greatest dribbler of all time.or eusobio?becekenbauer should also be in the running.george best might not have longeivity on his side.but he sure had a hell of a peak.and i have read that in defensive qualities only di stefano could match him of the above.(i am excluding beckenbauer)..but mostly i think di stefano, pele, beckenbauer, cryuff and maradona are regarded as the top 5 players of all time.of the players i have seen ronaldo for a short time i think threatened to break into that group. right now messi is doing the same..actually i think he is closer to the five than ronaldo ever was because he is much more versatile and complete than ronaldo. a trait shared by the five in the elite group.ronaldorict in comparison was much more one-dimensional.so choosing only 1 from that bunch is a damn hard job.. because while seeing messi live i think he is an alien.and these 5 were possibly even better than him.i will be very grateful if there is someone in the forum who have seen these 5 play live,well maybe excluding di stefano..

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Post by Lord Awesome Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:56 am

If Cryuff is there than Beckenbauer should be as well. hmm
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Post by CrazyBoy Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:31 am

Di Stefano was basically the superior version of Crujff, so I dont agree with your three.

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Post by Forza Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:05 am

Lord Hispano wrote:If Cryuff is there than Beckenbauer should be as well. hmm
Should be different lists for different positions.
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Post by juventus101 Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:39 pm

Forza Rossoneri wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:If Cryuff is there than Beckenbauer should be as well. hmm
Should be different lists for different positions.

Absolutely right. Even though in the overall, id still put Beckenbauer ahead of Cruyff.

Top 5 Keepers:
1. Kahn
2. Buffon
3. Casillas
4. Zoff
5. Lehmann

Top 5 Defenders:
1. Beckenbauer
2. Scirea
3. Maldini
4. Baresi
5. Cannavaro

Top 5 Midfieders:
1. Matthaus
2. Zidane
3. Pirlo
4. Xavi
5. Ballack

Top 5 Wingers/Attacking Mids:
1. Maradona
2. Garrincha
3. Baggio
4. Messi
5. Platini

Top 5 Forwards:
1. Pele
2. Muller
3. Di Stefano
4. Cruyff
5. Ronaldo (R9)

Top 5 of All-Time:
1. Maradona
2. Garrincha
3. Beckenbauer
4. Pele
5. Baggio/Muller/Scirea
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Post by Valkyrja Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:13 pm

Kahn is the most overrated GK of alltime, that guy was the ultimate big-game flop.
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Post by zizzle Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:07 pm

culefan wrote:i am only 23 yrs old..so i am not fortunate enough to see knowledge i have about them is from -clippings and what i have read.i dont think you can say that these 3 were a level above all the others.historically speaking generally it is acknowledged that there have been 4 kings di stefano,pele,cryuff and maradona..but then there are also others.what about garrincha?a player generally assumed as the greatest dribbler of all time.or eusobio?becekenbauer should also be in the running.george best might not have longeivity on his side.but he sure had a hell of a peak.and i have read that in defensive qualities only di stefano could match him of the above.(i am excluding beckenbauer)..but mostly i think di stefano, pele, beckenbauer, cryuff and maradona are regarded as the top 5 players of all time.of the players i have seen ronaldo for a short time i think threatened to break into that group. right now messi is doing the same..actually i think he is closer to the five than ronaldo ever was because he is much more versatile and complete than ronaldo. a trait shared by the five in the elite group.ronaldorict in comparison was much more one-dimensional.so choosing only 1 from that bunch is a damn hard job.. because while seeing messi live i think he is an alien.and these 5 were possibly even better than him.i will be very grateful if there is someone in the forum who have seen these 5 play live,well maybe excluding di stefano..

you should post more
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Post by Ganso Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:39 pm

I know we have/had at least 2 posters who saw most of these players live (Sportczy and Bill).Maybe Maradona saw Maradona
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Post by CrazyBoy Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:10 pm

That is quite an okay list juventus101 considering you are putting well known legends and players you saw. although some of the inclusions are odd especially Ballack and Lehmann.
Anyways let me compile a small list of players I remember playing in my time, although ranking is not my forte, so excuse me if I am wrong and missed someone.

Best GKs during my football fanship lol:
1. Buffon
2. Schmeichel.
3. Kahn.
4. Casillas.
5. Preud'Homme.

Centerbacks:
1. Baresi
2. Nesta
3. Bergomi
4. Thuram
5. Cannavora.

Fullbacks:

1. Maldini
2. Roberto Carlos
3. Zanetti
4. Jorginho
5. Cafu

CM/DM-
1. Matthaeus
2. Rijkaard
3. Redondo
4. Cerezo
5. Keane.

Wingers:
1. Figo.
2. Giggs.
3. D. Beckham.
4. Pires.
5. Gonzalez.

Playmakers:
1. Zidane
2. Xavi
3. Laudrup
4. Pirlo
5. Riquelme


Attacking midfielders:
1. Maradona
2. Gullit
3. Rivaldo
4. Ronaldinho
5. Totti

Forwards:
1. Messi
2. Baggio
3. Cristiano Ronaldo
4. Henry
5. Stoichov

Strikers:
1. Van Basten.
2. Romario.
3. Ronaldo.
4. Batistuta.
5. Shevchenko.

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Post by CrazyBoy Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:11 pm

That is quite an okay list juventus101 considering you are putting well known legends and players you saw. although some of the inclusions are odd especially Ballack and Lehmann.
Anyways let me compile a small list of players I remember playing in my time, although ranking is not my forte, so excuse me if I am wrong and missed someone.

Best GKs during my football fanship lol:
1. Buffon
2. Schmeichel.
3. Kahn.
4. Casillas.
5. Preud'Homme.

Centerbacks:
1. Baresi
2. Nesta
3. Bergomi
4. Thuram
5. Cannavora.

Fullbacks:

1. Maldini
2. Roberto Carlos
3. Zanetti
4. Jorginho
5. Cafu

CM/DM-
1. Matthaeus
2. Rijkaard
3. Redondo
4. Cerezo
5. Keane.

Wingers:
1. Figo.
2. Giggs.
3. D. Beckham.
4. Pires.
5. Gonzalez.

Playmakers:
1. Zidane
2. Xavi
3. Laudrup
4. Pirlo
5. Riquelme


Attacking midfielders:
1. Maradona
2. Gullit
3. Rivaldo
4. Ronaldinho
5. Totti

Forwards:
1. Messi
2. Baggio
3. Cristiano Ronaldo
4. Henry
5. Stoichov

Strikers:
1. Van Basten.
2. Romario.
3. Ronaldo.
4. Batistuta.
5. Shevchenko.

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Post by juventus101 Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:18 pm

Yea i used alot based on reputation alone, as i obviously didnt watch Pele or many others. But my question for you is: No Nedved in wingers? Davids and Gattuso in CMs? No Gerrard at all? (He could be categorized in many different positions). Also, Lehmann was an amazing keeper who was key to Germanys 06 and 08 runs and Arsenals invincibles run. Ballack didnt win anything of note like a WC or CL but was an amazijg player that should neved be overlooked. He was one of the most complete players ive seen.
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Post by juventus101 Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Yea i used alot based on reputation alone, as i obviously didnt watch Pele or many others. But my question for you is: No Nedved in wingers? Davids and Gattuso in CMs? No Gerrard at all? (He could be categorized in many different positions). Also, Lehmann was an amazing keeper who was key to Germanys 06 and 08 runs and Arsenals invincibles run. Ballack didnt win anything of note like a WC or CL but was an amazijg player that should neved be overlooked. He was one of the most complete players ive seen.
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Post by CrazyBoy Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:52 pm

I dont consider Nevded a winger tbh, he is a attacking mid for me. And as you can some players in my AM list who are better than Nevded IMO.
Davids and Gerrard are not better or as legendary than the players in my list IMO. Gattuso must be a joke reference from you as how can anyone even think he would be anywhere near the Rijkaards, Redondos, Matthaeus, Keanes and Cerezos of the world. Ballack was good but top 5 of alltime is bit over the top. I would also consider Effenberg over him but that is my opinion and I am not forcing it on you.

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Post by juventus101 Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:41 pm

Youre saying Gattuso is a joke when you put David Beckham in a Top 5 of all time list? Camoranesi shits all over Beckham. Also, Nedved started out as a CAM but he was at his best as a Winger. For example the year he won the Ballon Dor (2003) he was mainky a winger. I also dont rate Cerezo that highly and would definitely put Davids in there before him, and i think Ballack would edge Rijkaard, who i always felt was overrated. Maradona was also a winger, Totti is more of a forward than Baggio. Del Piero is also better than Torti in my opinion, Ibra better than Sheva, Zambrotta (and Cafu) better than Jorginho, among other things, but overall its a pretty good list.
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Post by CrazyBoy Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 am

juventus101 wrote:Youre saying Gattuso is a joke when you put David Beckham in a Top 5 of all time list? Camoranesi shits all over Beckham.

that is not an all time list kid, reading problem? When I clearly wrote the list is about my life time as football fan.
And Beckham is a far superior footballer to Gattuso(whom I admire because of the way he gives his heart on field) as he actually can do wonderful things with the ball unlike Gattuso. Beckham is one of the best crosser, long passer, delivery and dead ball specialist I saw. He was a vital part of that all winning Manchester United, a consistent performer, maybe not a great dribbler like Figo or a pacy winger like Giggs, but he performed at top level for years before making a bad decision of going to Spain.
Since you might get confused this is my all time wingers:
1. Garrincha
2. George Best
3. Matthews
4. Figo
5. Dzajic

Camo was good but Beckham was no slouch either.
Also, Nedved started out as a CAM but he was at his best as a Winger. For example the year he won the Ballon Dor (2003) he was mainky a winger.

fair enough but still dont think he was a winger, although nor was Beckham a true winger, so I would have him in third after Figo aNd Giggs.

I also dont rate Cerezo that highly and would definitely put Davids in there before him

would not say I say I disagree tbh, and maybe it is style of play which influenced my listing Cerezo over Davids. As I love registas like Cerezo.
and i think Ballack would edge Rijkaard, who i always felt was overrated.

disagree here, Rijkaard was a great player, he was the lynchpin of that Milan and Dutch sides, cant imagine those teams gluing so well without this man linking the defense and attack so fluidly.

Maradona was also a winger,

lol from where did you got this. Maradona a winger? At Juniors he was an advanced SS, ay Napoli a proper AM and at Argies a free role AM.

Totti is more of a forward than Baggio. Del Piero is also better than Torti in my opinion,
well these positions confuse me, although I view Totti as an advance player but not as advanced to be considered an FW. Baggio was a FW despite his ability to play as an Trequartista.
Del Piero a legend respect him for his loyality with Juve but nah Totti performed better than Del Piero over a long period of time. Del Piero at his prine was no doubt a class aprt but when ranking players we should not just consider prime.
Ibra better than Sheva

Ibra the choker better than Sheva? Sheva performed at bigger stages brilliantly unlike Ibra.
Zambrotta (and Cafu) better than Jorginho, among other things, but overall its a pretty good list.

Zamo was great but I rate Jorginho higher. Cafu was inferior to Jorginho in every sensible sense. Maybe his long career and winning more might be a factor over Jorginho but as a player Jorginho was superior.

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Post by CrazyBoy Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 am

juventus101 wrote:Youre saying Gattuso is a joke when you put David Beckham in a Top 5 of all time list? Camoranesi shits all over Beckham.

that is not an all time list kid, reading problem? When I clearly wrote the list is about my life time as football fan.
And Beckham is a far superior footballer to Gattuso(whom I admire because of the way he gives his heart on field) as he actually can do wonderful things with the ball unlike Gattuso. Beckham is one of the best crosser, long passer, delivery and dead ball specialist I saw. He was a vital part of that all winning Manchester United, a consistent performer, maybe not a great dribbler like Figo or a pacy winger like Giggs, but he performed at top level for years before making a bad decision of going to Spain.
Since you might get confused this is my all time wingers:
1. Garrincha
2. George Best
3. Matthews
4. Figo
5. Dzajic

Camo was good but Beckham was no slouch either.
Also, Nedved started out as a CAM but he was at his best as a Winger. For example the year he won the Ballon Dor (2003) he was mainky a winger.

fair enough but still dont think he was a winger, although nor was Beckham a true winger, so I would have him in third after Figo aNd Giggs.

I also dont rate Cerezo that highly and would definitely put Davids in there before him

would not say I say I disagree tbh, and maybe it is style of play which influenced my listing Cerezo over Davids. As I love registas like Cerezo.
and i think Ballack would edge Rijkaard, who i always felt was overrated.

disagree here, Rijkaard was a great player, he was the lynchpin of that Milan and Dutch sides, cant imagine those teams gluing so well without this man linking the defense and attack so fluidly.

Maradona was also a winger,

lol from where did you got this. Maradona a winger? At Juniors he was an advanced SS, ay Napoli a proper AM and at Argies a free role AM.

Totti is more of a forward than Baggio. Del Piero is also better than Torti in my opinion,
well these positions confuse me, although I view Totti as an advance player but not as advanced to be considered an FW. Baggio was a FW despite his ability to play as an Trequartista.
Del Piero a legend respect him for his loyality with Juve but nah Totti performed better than Del Piero over a long period of time. Del Piero at his prine was no doubt a class aprt but when ranking players we should not just consider prime.
Ibra better than Sheva

Ibra the choker better than Sheva? Sheva performed at bigger stages brilliantly unlike Ibra.
Zambrotta (and Cafu) better than Jorginho, among other things, but overall its a pretty good list.

Zamo was great but I rate Jorginho higher. Cafu was inferior to Jorginho in every sensible sense. Maybe his long career and winning more might be a factor over Jorginho but as a player Jorginho was superior.

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Post by juventus101 Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:13 am

Sheva performed at bjgger stages for.s few yesrs with Milan. Then he went yo Chelsea, flopped, and faded away. Ibra has consistently been among the top strikrrs in the world for 7-8 years at least.

I never said it was an all time list. I mentioned Camoranesi, qho played for Juve throughout the 2000s, as being better than Beckham. I dont know how youre comparing Gattuso to Beckham. Two totally different positions.

Baggios natural position was as a trequartista. A 3/4 player who played behind the strikers. Like Ozil. Though Baggios goalscoring was better than Ozils, whuch is why he seemed further forward, but he wasnt. Del Piero was slightly further forward than Baggio, and Totti is even more further forward.

Maradona was not a traditional winger, but he was still a winger. He was an attacking midfuelder that started out wide and cut in, even though hes right footed and usyally started out on the right.

I disagree about Ballack-Rijkaard, Zambro-Cafu-Jorginho, but those are really all opinion and its hard to prove one over the other.
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Post by CrazyBoy Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:02 am

juventus101 wrote:Sheva performed at bjgger stages for.s few yesrs with Milan. Then he went yo Chelsea, flopped, and faded away. Ibra has consistently been among the top strikrrs in the world for 7-8 years at least.

you are saying as if Sheva was not among top strikers during his time. imo he was second only to R9 during his time. Since his days from Kyiv along with Rebrov, he set Europe on fire. As a player well they are different, Sheva was a finisher while Ibra is some sort of playmaker striker. Ibra is a Serie A legend although this Serie A which he dominated is crappy but on Europe and International stage(not his fault as Sweden are shit) he falls flat, while Sheva is one of the best UCL player.


I never said it was an all time list.


you did said kiddo:
juventus101 wrote:Youre saying Gattuso is a joke when you put David Beckham in a Top 5 of all time list?


I mentioned Camoranesi, qho played for Juve throughout the 2000s, as being better than Beckham.
no you said he shits over Beckham which is far from saying Camo is better. Although I disagree about that. Beckham for me every day over Camo.

I dont know how youre comparing Gattuso to Beckham. Two totally different positions.
because you try to refute my point about Gattuso being a joke reference when being among the best CM/DMs of last few generation by belitting my list having Beckham.
Baggios natural position was as a trequartista. A 3/4 player who played behind the strikers. Like Ozil. Though Baggios goalscoring was better than Ozils, whuch is why he seemed further forward, but he wasnt.

Ozil and Baggio dont perform in same position.
Del Piero was slightly further forward than Baggio, and Totti is even more further forward.

I disagree here, Totti while he has played everywhere in forward even the makeshift center forward role but he isnt a true forward. He has been a AM in the times when Roma won the Serie A.
Maradona was not a traditional winger, but he was still a winger. He was an attacking midfuelder that started out wide and cut in, even though hes right footed and usyally started out on the right.
lol this is a funny. Maradona was never a winger, nor even a wide player.
I disagree about Ballack-Rijkaard, Zambro-Cafu-Jorginho, but those are really all opinion and its hard to prove one over the other.

okay

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Post by juventus101 Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:16 am

Maradona was an attacking mid that started out wide.

Camoranesi was better than Beckham in pretty much every way bar set pieces.

Baggio was a trequartista. Aka in the hole between the midfield and the strikers. The same as Ozil and where Rooney played yesterday for United. Del Piero and Totti are also trequartistas but they, Totti especially, were played more as second strikers.
Ts very similar, but people think Baggio was an SS because he could play there too and would alot of the time only play with one striker ahead of.him so he seemed like an SS, and i guess you wouldnt be wrong. But it would be more correct to call him a trequartista bexause thats what he was. As i said though, its almost the same thing.

You told me Gattuso was a joke reference, so i told you Beckham was a joke reference.
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:04 pm

Johan Cryuff & its not even CLOSE.

Had Oranje won the 1974 WC in addition to Ajax's 3 Consecutive Titles Cryuff would have been the Undisputed GOAT.

He was the most naturally gifted, most intelligent guy who revolutionized football leading a team who stretched the boundaries of how football was played.

Maradona comes 2nd IMO. Great player.

Garrincha comes 3rd & better than PELE IMO.

Then comes the likes of Pele, Di Stefano & George Best IMO who are pretty over-rated by a section of fans.

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Post by Ganso Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:07 pm

Garrincha was NOT better than Pele,I don't know why non brazillians keep saying that.
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Post by juventus101 Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:39 pm

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:Johan Cryuff & its not even CLOSE.

Had Oranje won the 1974 WC in addition to Ajax's 3 Consecutive Titles Cryuff would have been the Undisputed GOAT.

He was the most naturally gifted, most intelligent guy who revolutionized football leading a team who stretched the boundaries of how football was played.

The same thing could be said about Baggio. And actually was said years ago in many articles. It was said that if Baggio won the 94 World Cup, he wouldve been "untouchable". Thats why we cant use ifs. Though i still rate Baggio and Cruyff in the Top 10.
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Post by Dutti Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:41 pm

No offence guys, but has any of you lived long enough to have witnessed how great were the "Big 3"?

I seriously find it hard to even try to read threads that discuss how good they were let alone believe whatever being said.

Again, no offence intended.
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Big 3: Pele, Maradona, Cryuff Empty Re: Big 3: Pele, Maradona, Cryuff

Post by culefan Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:19 pm

after seeing many clips of the 3 in the past 3 days.. i think maradona was the most gifted of the 3 with ball at his feet ,but i think the best was pele. iwas reading an article about pele.in essense it said that if we imagine a footballer with messi's dribbling and finishing,falcao's heading c.ronaldo's speed and 2-footedness,zlatan's shooting and aerial skills then the above footballer will be named pele.he was the ultimate attacker the most complete and the most successful.in pure ball control and passing may be maradona was better than him,but when combining all the aspects together there is only one guy who stands out.. pele the king of football

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Big 3: Pele, Maradona, Cryuff Empty Re: Big 3: Pele, Maradona, Cryuff

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