Is it worth it?

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Post by izzy Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:51 am

MJGunner wrote:At Ajax

Then he spent 2 years at Inter and flopped hard to the tune of 11 goals in 52 apps when compared to his 185 apps and 103 goals at Ajax.

Henry was performing pretty poorly at Juventus when AW picked him up.

Vieira was a nobody, only featuring twice for Milan.

RVP himself had similar statistics for Feyenoord when he was a few years younger than Podolski at Bayern. He had 61 apps and 15 goals. Podolski had 71 apps and 15 goals. RVP had an attitude problem to boot but was given faith he didn't deserve.

All these assessments are subjective to their time and other factors but the point is that there were question marks for all these signings and they proved top talents, legends even. I'd say Podolski's case seems a lot less dire as he's been great albeit for a relegated team. I'm so naive that I would rank Podolski up with those struggling soon to be legends but he looks a lot better on paper than any of them did when they were bought.


One last thing, what are we arguing? That Arsenal needed a wake-up call to refreshen their ambition in the transfer marker, or that RVP's statement wasn't worth it?

Difference is Bergkamp had proven he had the quality and was a top talent by doing it at Ajax not Koln. Yes, he did flop at Inter but he still had his time at Ajax to fall back on, something Podolski doesn't have.

Henry was playing brilliantly at Monaco before his transfer to Juve in January. He was only there for 6 months. 6 months and was 20 years of age at the time. He had the talent and the potential.

Vieria was 19 when he was at Milan. 19. What was he expected to do?

I believe a 20 year old and 19 year old have a lot less to prove than a 27 year old who did spend 3 years at a top club. Both players quickly proved their class for Arsenal during their debut seasons.

Bergkamp's talent was never in question when he joined Arsenal from Inter, the only question mark on him was could he develop to the English brand of football and would Wright and Anelka be good enough strike partners.

There is a huge difference between the Arsenal those three players joined and the Arsenal Podolski has just joined. It was clear that Wenger was signing these players young players with a mixture of experience that would allow Arsenal to win the PL and compete strongly in the CL for many years to come, which proved to come true. The goal for Arsenal every season was to win the league and compete strongly for the CL.

The Arsenal Podolski has joined has question marks all over it. The fans are split on whether the goal is to actually win the league or secure a top 4 postion, to actually compete strongly to win the CL or make the quarters etc.

Comparing Podolski to Henry age 20, Vieria age 19 and Bergkamp who actually proved his class at a top club like Ajax is ridiculous.

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Post by urbaNRoots Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:54 am

And comparing the youngest player to reach 100 caps for a NT like Germany with Darren Bent, what do you call that?
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Post by izzy Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:56 am

urbaNRoots wrote:And Podolski hasn't estabilished himself as a Top talent in Köln and Germany? Ok. All these players flopped at their previously bigger clubs, same as Podolski did. You're trying too hard.

Trying to hard? You're comparing a 27 year old to a 19 and 20 year old. :facepalm:

Are we really comparing Podolski's efforts with Koln to that of Bergkamps with Ajax? How stupid is that?

Henry spent 6 months at Juve. 6. Behind DT and ADP. He was 20 at the time.
Vieria was 19 and trying to break into a Milan midfield that had Ambrosini, Desailly and Ambertini.
That's what you consider flopping?

Get to know the history of your own players.
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Post by izzy Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:59 am

urbaNRoots wrote:And comparing the youngest player to reach 100 caps for a NT like Germany with Darren Bent, what do you call that?

No, i'm comparing their club achievements because that's whats in question. Like I give a fck what they do on the international level, how in any way does that involve Arsenal? How does his 100 caps instantly make him a nailed on success at Arsenal?

You can keep bringing up his international stats all you want, his club stats are what matters since he signed for ARSENAL. A CLUB TEAM BASED IN NORTH LONDON.
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Post by urbaNRoots Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:33 am

izzy wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:And Podolski hasn't estabilished himself as a Top talent in Köln and Germany? Ok. All these players flopped at their previously bigger clubs, same as Podolski did. You're trying too hard.

Trying to hard? You're comparing a 27 year old to a 19 and 20 year old. :facepalm:

Are we really comparing Podolski's efforts with Koln to that of Bergkamps with Ajax? How stupid is that?

Henry spent 6 months at Juve. 6. Behind DT and ADP. He was 20 at the time.
Vieria was 19 and trying to break into a Milan midfield that had Ambrosini, Desailly and Ambertini.
That's what you consider flopping?

Get to know the history of your own players.

First of all I wasn't comparing success but the situation is similar with Bergkamp.

And how old was Podolski when he joined Bayern Munchen? He was only 21. Why you ignore that he was young aswell just as Henry for example in Juventus?
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Post by urbaNRoots Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:38 am

izzy wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:And comparing the youngest player to reach 100 caps for a NT like Germany with Darren Bent, what do you call that?

No, i'm comparing their club achievements because that's whats in question. Like I give a fck what they do on the international level, how in any way does that involve Arsenal? How does his 100 caps instantly make him a nailed on success at Arsenal?

You can keep bringing up his international stats all you want, his club stats are what matters since he signed for ARSENAL. A CLUB TEAM BASED IN NORTH LONDON.

And who was stating that Podolski will be a success at Arsenal? I was respondin to KOEC's "he's a rubbish player" post.

So you choose to ignore his international stats just to make your argument look right? That's stupid.
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Post by izzy Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:42 am

urbaNRoots wrote:First of all I wasn't comparing success but the situation is similar with Bergkamp.

And how old was Podolski when he joined Bayern Munchen? He was only 21. Why you ignore that he was young aswell just as Henry for example in Juventus?

I am not ignoring that. However, there is a stark difference. Podolski was there for 3 years, Henry was there for 6 months. Podolski moved to Koln, Henry moved to Arsenal. One accepted the challenge to move to another big club and prove himself, another went to play for relegation fodder.

His situation is only similar to that of Bergkamp if you completely leave off Bergkamps time at Ajax which is in no way comparable to Podolski's at Koln. The pressure to succeed, score goals, perform day in day out is way higher than that of Ajax than Koln. Bergkamp did flop in Inter, but had moved to Arsenal with people thinking that. ' he flopped at Inter but his time at a top team like Ajax proves he quality'. Podolski does not have that at all. He moved from Bayern to Koln so it is natural for people to think that he chickened out and instead of moving to another top club to prove himself, he went back to Koln which was the safe option, leaving people to think that he was not able to handle the very top level of club football.
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Post by TalkingReckless Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:44 am

btw this is what Vieira said about arsenal in June 2001

Patrick Vieira has launched an amazing attack on his Arsenal team-mates and Arsene Wenger's summer signings - and made it clear that he wants to leave.

In an interview with the Sun this morning, Vieira also dismissed Arsenal's chances of success next season, claiming they wouldn't even finish in the top five of the Premiership.

He said: "People should know this is nothing to do with money. I need to leave because I want to win more trophies and I just cannot see that happening at Arsenal. Certainly not over the next few years, anyway.

"Comparing Arsenal to the big clubs in Europe this season is going to be quite ridiculous," he added.

"I do not honestly see Arsenal finishing in the top five in the league - and you can forget the Champions League."

In recent weeks, Arsene Wenger has signed Everton striker Francis Jeffers and Rangers midfielder Giovanni van Bronckhorst in an attempt to strengthen his squad and persuade Vieira to stay. However, Vieira sees nothing to be excited about in their arrival.

"When I told Arsene Wenger I was leaving, he said to me 'I have £25m to spend on a few players'. My answer was 'Obviously, Mr Wenger, you are not shopping in Harrods. That will only buy you one good player.' Now I have been proved right.

"Arsene Wenger has signed two 'hopeful' players who haven't proved themselves in the Premiership yet. One of them is a boy of 20.

"You can't compete with the best clubs in Europe by making these kind of signings.

"Arsene Wenger is an ambitious manager and he knows deep in his heart that he needs five world-class players to compete among the best in Europe.

"With £25m in the kitty, Arsenal is not a great European club. With that budget they won't even be among the top 20 clubs in Europe."

Fellow Frenchmen Robert Pires, Thierry Henry, Sylvain Wiltord and Gilles Grimandi have urged Vieira to remain at Highbury, but today he dismissed their pleas.

He declared: "I have given 100 per cent to Arsenal over the last five years. They have only been there for a year or so.

"They have won nothing with Arsenal. They should stay and try to win things for the club before they open their mouths.

"My message to these players is that they have their lives and I have mine."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2001/jun/25/newsstory.sport2

we went on to win 7 trophies after that
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Post by izzy Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:47 am

urbaNRoots wrote:And who was stating that Podolski will be a success at Arsenal? I was respondin to KOEC's "he's a rubbish player" post.

So you choose to ignore his international stats just to make your argument look right? That's stupid.

I choose to ignore his international goals because they mean fck all at club level. Why the hell do you guys care what he is doing for country? If he fck all for Arsenal are you guys going to sit there and say, 'oh but look at his international record'. SO WHAT?

Going by heap of crap, maybe Arsenal should of signed Berbatov seeing as his international record proves that he better than any Arsenal striker there. Rolling Eyes

Using international stats to judge someone based on their club career, that's stupid.
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Post by urbaNRoots Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:47 am

izzy wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:First of all I wasn't comparing success but the situation is similar with Bergkamp.

And how old was Podolski when he joined Bayern Munchen? He was only 21. Why you ignore that he was young aswell just as Henry for example in Juventus?

I am not ignoring that. However, there is a stark difference. Podolski was there for 3 years, Henry was there for 6 months. Podolski moved to Koln, Henry moved to Arsenal. One accepted the challenge to move to another big club and prove himself, another went to play for relegation fodder.

His situation is only similar to that of Bergkamp if you completely leave off Bergkamps time at Ajax which is in no way comparable to Podolski's at Koln. The pressure to succeed, score goals, perform day in day out is way higher than that of Ajax than Koln. Bergkamp did flop in Inter, but had moved to Arsenal with people thinking that. ' he flopped at Inter but his time at a top team like Ajax proves he quality'. Podolski does not have that at all. He moved from Bayern to Koln so it is natural for people to think that he chickened out and instead of moving to another top club to prove himself, he went back to Koln which was the safe option, leaving people to think that he was not able to handle the very top level of club football.

Lol you think he chickened out? Why did he decide to leave Germany then? Because it's the safe option? I don't think so. He knows that the expectations are much bigger at Arsenal than in Koln and wanted to make a name of himself at Arsenal. That's why he's joining Arsenal.

If he's such a big pussy he would just stay in Koln and be a legend there, but he didn't. He wants to prove himself again.
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Post by izzy Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:52 am

urbaNRoots wrote:Lol you think he chickened out? Why did he decide to leave Germany then? Because it's the safe option? I don't think so. He knows that the expectations are much bigger at Arsenal than in Koln and wanted to make a name of himself at Arsenal. That's why he's joining Arsenal.

If he's such a big pussy he would just stay in Koln and be a legend there, but he didn't. He wants to prove himself again.

Yeah, I do think he chickened out by moving to Koln instead of going to another big club in Germany or going abroad. Because that's what I said. Did I say he chickened out by moving to Arsenal? No. Read, then respond.

Moving to Arsenal is the best thing for his career as he will now have the oppurtunity to prove if he can perform at the highest level on the club stage. I highly doubt that when he wanted to leave Bayern his only suitors were Koln. He took a safe bet.
This move to Arsenal will prove if he can handle the pressure at playing at a demanding club week in week out.
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Post by urbaNRoots Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:53 am

izzy wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:And who was stating that Podolski will be a success at Arsenal? I was respondin to KOEC's "he's a rubbish player" post.

So you choose to ignore his international stats just to make your argument look right? That's stupid.

I choose to ignore his international goals because they mean fck all at club level. Why the hell do you guys care what he is doing for country? If he fck all for Arsenal are you guys going to sit there and say, 'oh but look at his international record'. SO WHAT?

Going by heap of crap, maybe Arsenal should of signed Berbatov seeing as his international record proves that he better than any Arsenal striker there. Rolling Eyes

Using international stats to judge someone based on their club career, that's stupid.

I care because the number of call-up means how good he's been at club level, you realize that players get called up because of their personal club success? lol

I'm not ignoring anything not his club level not his nt level. I know that he flopped at one team but I don't ignore the fact that he was great for two other teams (Germany and Koln). Unlike you... let's just ignore international football lol
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Post by urbaNRoots Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:54 am

izzy wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Lol you think he chickened out? Why did he decide to leave Germany then? Because it's the safe option? I don't think so. He knows that the expectations are much bigger at Arsenal than in Koln and wanted to make a name of himself at Arsenal. That's why he's joining Arsenal.

If he's such a big pussy he would just stay in Koln and be a legend there, but he didn't. He wants to prove himself again.

Yeah, I do think he chickened out by moving to Koln instead of going to another big club in Germany or going abroad. Because that's what I said. Did I say he chickened out by moving to Arsenal? No. Read, then respond.

Moving to Arsenal is the best thing for his career as he will now have the oppurtunity to prove if he can perform at the highest level on the club stage. I highly doubt that when he wanted to leave Bayern his only suitors were Koln. He took a safe bet.
This move to Arsenal will prove if he can handle the pressure at playing at a demanding club week in week out.

That's fair, agreed.
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:35 am

Closing this as moving it won't do anything. It can be re-opened later when tempers have cooled, I'm going to go back through the last couple of pages and remove off-topic posts so that this can continue later rather than descending into nonsense.
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