Spain,the greatest ever NT?

ACMRox wrote:undoubtedly the best team to not win a tournament

I cannot agree with that because for me that title goes to Hungary 1954.

messixaviesta wrote:

ACMRox wrote:undoubtedly the best team to not win a tournament

I cannot agree with that because for me that title goes to Hungary 1954.

Ah I forgot. My beloved Puskas...

The most I'd seen of them was clips and highlights, never full matches so I can't truly compare, but you may be right.

As i said before. Not even the best of the generation, and not even close to.being the best of all time. We also have to take inti account the level of competition. The competition in 02 and 06 was ridiculously high for example. The competition now is high too, but between 06 and now its been pretty bad honestly. Italy 06 and.Brazil 02 would both beat this Spain side. Now lets look at the competition nowadays:

In 08 when Spain won, Italy was aged and still tied them. France were in the middle of a meltdown with Domenech and Germany was at an all time low. An aged, pazt his prime Ballack and a Podolski coming off a bad season with Bayern were who they were relying on. Im a huge Poldi fan, hes world class even in my opinion, but hes not gonna win you a Euro by himself. So who was Spains competition? Portugal and England who have never made a big impact besides a few third place finishes? The resilience of Croatia and Turkey? Come on.

In 2010, France anx Italy where at all-time lows and didnt make it out of the group stages. Portugal again is not gonna set the world on fire. England too. Argentina were too reliant on Messi who ended up doing nothing in the games that mattered. Brazil were disgraceful by their own standards. It was a World Cup between Holland, Germany, Spain, and to a point Uruguay.

Now, in 2012. First fheres Italy, who have improved drastically but are obviously still not a finished product. Germany, whose best player is fighting through an injury, are in a period of bad form, and are constantly switching players and sometimes even formations. Portugal and France are pretty strong. But England we all knew i. The back of our minds that theyre not going far. Netherlands are a mess. So this one was definitely the strongest competition they came up against, and they only got through Portugal on PKs, and won in the final against a well below par Italy side which beat themselves. Spain were great, no doubt about that, but this stuff cant be ignored.

So overall, on paper they might look like the best team ever, but Italy of 06 and Brazil of 02 would both beat thus Spain side. Theres no doubt abiut that in my opinion, and thats just in the last decade. All time, this Spain side are not even close in my opinion. Top 10 sure, but thats as far as they get.

Let me get this straight, this current Spanish side wins the Euro '08, WC 2010 and now the Euro '12, and some people still insist there are nowhere close to being the greatest national team to ever grace the football pitch?

Hmmm...butthurt much?

At the end of the day, history will remember this team as one of the best ever, if not the best, simply because of all that they have achieved [history only remembers WINNERS!]. They have managed to do what no other modern national side has done before, and that is, win back to back Euros and the WC.

Fun fact: do you know that France was the last team to score against Spain in the knockout stages...and that was in 2006! Now tell me if that's not TOTAL DOMINATION?

We all remember the Dutch and they've never won a WC. Same with U.S.S.R, Yugoslavia, Hungary, etc.

Lord Hispano wrote:We all remember the Dutch and they've never won a WC. Same with U.S.S.R, Yugoslavia, Hungary, etc.

"All"? Go do a survey online or wherever, and ask if anyone remembers the Dutch team of 1970s?

Everyone knows Pele, Maradona etc but not everyone knows Cruyff. Only the football purists" and those who like to see themselves as one will talk about the Dutch legend, but the rest of the world will only talk about WINNERS.

Brady2Moss wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:We all remember the Dutch and they've never won a WC. Same with U.S.S.R, Yugoslavia, Hungary, etc.

"All"? Go do a survey online or wherever, and ask if anyone remembers the Dutch team of 1970s?

Everyone knows Pele, Maradona etc but not everyone knows Cruyff. Only the football purists" and those who like to see themselves as one will talk about the
Dutch legend, but the rest of the world will only talk about WINNERS.

The rest of the world, the media, history... They can think Cuba was the best team ever for all I care.

But this thread is about the real world. And Spain, truthfully, is not the best team to ever grace the pitch.

Definately are in the top 5 best teams in history... I can't stop watching them. Imo, one of the greatest teams to watch. Others tend to disagree because of lack of understanding of the great game...

paxtonpale wrote:Definately are in the top 5 best teams in history... I can't stop watching them. Imo, one of the greatest teams to watch. Others tend to disagree because of lack of understanding of the great game...

Says the spaniard... Please guys, don't be biased. Spain is amazing, but don't overrate them.

Brady2Moss wrote:
Everyone knows Pele, Maradona etc but not everyone knows Cruyff. Only the football purists" and those who like to see themselves as one will talk about the Dutch legend, but the rest of the world will only talk about WINNERS.

There is a HUGE difference between winning and losing even though the line between them is sometimes very thin. I have often thought that had Holland won the final of WC 1974, Cruyff would have been put on the same pedestal as Pele and Maradona.

I agree with Cruyff. I also think if Italy won in 94, Baggio would be mentioned up there too. Instead, its just Maradona and Pele, and then Cruyff, Baggio, etc are a notch below. I dont agree with it at all because i believe Cruyff and especially Baggio were just as talented, but thats the way the world will always look at it. But to say that people only remembrr the winners is ridiculous. Anyone that really knows this sport knows alot more than just the winners.

juventus101 wrote:I agree with Cruyff. I also think if Italy won in 94, Baggio would be mentioned up there too. Instead, its just Maradona and Pele, and then Cruyff, Baggio, etc are a notch below. I dont agree with it at all because i believe Cruyff and especially Baggio were just as talented, but thats the way the world will always look at it. But to say that people only remembrr the winners is ridiculous. Anyone that really knows this sport knows alot more than just the winners.

Baggio on the same level as Cruijf?

Oh God there's something wrong with the modern generation.

Xavi, Iniesta and Casillas are some of the greatest footballers the world has ever seen.

Then you have the likes of Alonso, Silva, Ramos etc who are doing so well.

I am sorry, but this team is clearly on another level and is one of the greatest NTs the world has ever seen.

Don't let nostalgia affect your judgement friends.

ACMRox wrote:

paxtonpale wrote:Definately are in the top 5 best teams in history... I can't stop watching them. Imo, one of the greatest teams to watch. Others tend to disagree because of lack of understanding of the great game...

Says the spaniard... Please guys, don't be biased. Spain is amazing, but don't overrate them.

Im Australian. I only lived in Spain for 3 years...

ACMRox wrote:

Brady2Moss wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:We all remember the Dutch and they've never won a WC. Same with U.S.S.R, Yugoslavia, Hungary, etc.

"All"? Go do a survey online or wherever, and ask if anyone remembers the Dutch team of 1970s?

Everyone knows Pele, Maradona etc but not everyone knows Cruyff. Only the football purists" and those who like to see themselves as one will talk about the
Dutch legend, but the rest of the world will only talk about WINNERS.

The rest of the world, the media, history... They can think Cuba was the best team ever for all I care.

But this thread is about the real world. And Spain, truthfully, is not the best team to ever grace the pitch.

To be honest, your opinions do not matter, only the opinions of the society matter. The "real" world thinks Spain is one of the best, if not the best ever, so you are wrong.

Even you, surely, cannot deny what Spain has achieved so far...no team will repeat such feat for a while (back to back Euros and a WC to top it off).

juventus101 wrote:I agree with Cruyff. I also think if Italy won in 94, Baggio would be mentioned up there too. Instead, its just Maradona and Pele, and then Cruyff, Baggio, etc are a notch below. I dont agree with it at all because i believe Cruyff and especially Baggio were just as talented, but thats the way the world will always look at it. But to say that people only remembrr the winners is ridiculous. Anyone that really knows this sport knows alot more than just the winners.

Does everyone here remember George Best?

I rest my case.

messixaviesta wrote:Dani Alves said on Twitter - "What would football be without Xavi and Iniesta!"

That made me tweet - "Messi and C.Ronaldo may score all the goals but Xavi and Iniesta define football."

This comment is not fair to Messi...
When it comes to play-making abilities and vision, Messi is as good as Xavi and Iniesta...
This is why he's the most complete player ever... he can do both (finish and create)...

Cristiano should not be mentioned in the same line with Messi!

One more thing, the past is sooooooooooooooo over-rated...

The butthurt is strong in this thread.

Seriously people stop hating Spain because they are winning, be thankful that you get the chance to watch them for they won't be around forever, and only when their gone and were stuck with terrible football will you realise what we have lost.

Baggio as good as Cruyff? Lol joke

Pirlo better then Zidane? Lol joke

Jonathan28 wrote:The bias is strong in this thread.

Fixed

This is not butthurt -- I'm loving this Spanish side and was on my feet applauding the loudest after their deserved victory, but don't overrate them.

Until they learn to finish they can't compete with Brazil 1982. And they need Messi to miraculously be allowed to play for them for them to come anywhere near Brazil 1970.

They certainly are the greatest. Greatest =/= Best. Their trophy haul is unprecedented for a NT cycle.

Khaled wrote:One more thing, the past is sooooooooooooooo over-rated...

Explain

jibers wrote:They certainly are the greatest. Greatest =/= Best. Their trophy haul is unprecedented for a NT cycle.

EXCELLENT point.

Their success does not mean they are the best, especially when you consider their poor competition.

Just my opinion ,might be a bit controversial but i certainly believe Italy 2006 would win this team ,maybe even Brazil of 2002.

ACMRox wrote:

jibers wrote:They certainly are the greatest. Greatest =/= Best. Their trophy haul is unprecedented for a NT cycle.

EXCELLENT point.

Their success does not mean they are the best, especially when you consider their poor competition.

Especially as the German NT 1972/74/76 was really close to the same treble too, and still people always quote the Dutch team as the team of that era

rwo power wrote:

ACMRox wrote:

jibers wrote:They certainly are the greatest. Greatest =/= Best. Their trophy haul is unprecedented for a NT cycle.

EXCELLENT point.

Their success does not mean they are the best, especially when you consider their poor competition.

Especially as the German NT 1972/74/76 was really close to the same treble too, and still people always quote the Dutch team as the team of that era

LOL the germas were betetr than the Dutch. No comparison tbh.