LESSONS we learned today...

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Post by juve_gigi Mon May 21, 2012 3:55 am

With every failure brings with it an equal or better opportunity for success. Today, we have some lessons that were learned in order to be better for next year and ready for Champions League play:

Lesson #1:

Storari is a backup goalkeeper. I know this seems obvious now but I was on this forum when people were insisting he should be our starting goalie this year. Shame on anyone who had an even remote thought of Storari ever taking Gigi's place.

Lesson #2:

Borriello :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Shame on anyone who thinks he should even be our 3rd string CF. If I ever see this guy wearing the sacred black and white jersey again I will go to Torino and k**l Marotta myself... Evil or Very Mad

Lesson #3:

Del Piero. You are a legend but it is time to go. I can't believe people are so angry with Del Piero leaving and trying to blame it all on Agnelli. Today proved that Del Piero is a substitute player at best and can only play coming off the bench for a 20 minute period. However, being in Champions League next year having a 20 minute player is a luxury we cannot afford. Too many games are involved with 3 competitions and we cannot have someone taking a bench spot who can only play 20 minutes. Sorry, but I watched Juventus sell Roberto Baggio in his PRIME, so I guess I have learned not to shed the same amount of tears for Del Piero as some of the younger folks on this forum.

Lesson #4:

Caceras is a very good player. Great buy by Marotta. It looks like he can play the left side as equally as the right side, so he will be an invaluable member of our bench next year. Looks like a very versatile player. It is really good to have a player of that quality coming off the bench. We need more of these type of players.

Lesson #5:

Pepe is a very good bench player. He looks to have lots of energy when coming off the bench, but not so much when he starts. He, like Caceras, will be an invaluable member of our bench next year. but make no mistake he is not a starter on the new Juve. He will be a very good bench player.

Lesson #6:

It is pretty obvious from lesson #2 and lesson #3 that we need TWO new strikers. We need at least one world class CF and an SS as well. Quagliarella, because of his versatility, can be a 3rd string CF/SS for next year. Vucinic is solid and can rotate with another SS. But that world class CF should be our top priority. Mt first choice is Cavani. He is world class, a true bomber, can play further out if need be, and has Serie A experience. He is also Italian, so I am in favour of him. Yes, his grandparents are from Maranello, home of Ferrari, and his last name is Italian, so in my opinion he is Italian to me. As for the SS position, that should be Giovinco. Cavani and Giovinco will play beautiful music together, just like Cavani and Lavezzi. Matri is a question mark. If we need to throw him into the mix to get Cavani, then we need another CF. Perhaps Damiao would work here. He is already 22 and maybe can step in right away to be Cavani's backup. Maybe that would be for the best. Throw Matri in to get Cavani and bring in Damiao along with Giovinco. A strikeforce of Cavani, Damiao, Quagliarella, Giovinco and Vucinic I think would be able to compete with any team in the world. I like that idea.

It would have been nice to win the Coppa Italia. In retrospect I think Conte made an error in not playing Gigi. But at the end of the day our whole team sucked in the first half and having a strikeforce of Borriello and Del Piero wasn't gonna lead us to victory, so I guess these games are not taken very seriously anyways. If it was taken seriously, then I am sure both Gigi and Vucinic would have started. Oh well, the most important thing is we won the scudetto, we are back on top and now based on the lessons we have learned from above we will be more prepared than ever to take Europe by storm next year.

Forza Juve!!!

Ciao tutti...
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Post by JUVENTUSY Mon May 21, 2012 5:50 am

Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up

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Post by Lynx100 Mon May 21, 2012 8:25 am

Careful Juve-Gigi..

Half the forum here has started to warm up to the Absolute Clown that is Boriello - infact, some of the oldest and founding members of this forum think Boriello would be useful. Goes to show some serious lack of judgment. People claiming to "sell all our 3 forwards and keep Boriello because he works so hard" and asking for Boriello loan extension :facepalm: :facepalm: Clueless...

I too remember Baggio being sold - the different there is, he didnt have 19 years of history behind him.

Theres too many people here who hold SENTIMENT in higher regard that winning at all costs. They turn around and start berating the people (and accusing them of having no respect) who come out and say that ADP didnt deserve to start. Respect has nothign to do with it. There is a game to be won. A legend in his own right - ADP is no longer the same player. He deserves to leave on his terms and winning the league is a nice way to see him off. I will be as sad as the rest of the fans when the number 10 isnt worn by ADP, but like all legends, he too much move on.

Damiao is a great striker - people here arent convinced because hes not 'EU proven' or hes already 22 and not in europe or whatever BS is spewed around. Hes a quality quality player. Our targets - Cavani, Damiao and Jovetic if you ask me. Ask Matri to move on. Bring back Giovinco and Immobile.
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Post by MMM Mon May 21, 2012 8:45 am

Great article but I'd like to mention some points:
- I don't see a huge difference between Borriello, matri and quagliarella therefore the idea can be keeping borriello for around 5 millions and sell one or even both matri and quagliarella to generate more money. I am a big fan of quaglia but before he loses more market value it's better to replace him. keeping him as our 3rd choice cf/ss is another choice.

- as for cavani, he's not my first choice cause he wasn't that great cavani in second half of this season and IMO that was one of the reasons napoli failed to reach CL. so spending 40-45m on him as our top purchase this summer is not a safe choice.

- I believe gio won't be a part of our team next season due to his and his agent's attitude
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Post by LWL91 Mon May 21, 2012 8:45 am

Lynx100 wrote:Careful Juve-Gigi..

Half the forum here has started to warm up to the Absolute Clown that is Boriello - infact, some of the oldest and founding members of this forum think Boriello would be useful. Goes to show some serious lack of judgment. People claiming to "sell all our 3 forwards and keep Boriello because he works so hard" and asking for Boriello loan extension :facepalm: :facepalm: Clueless...

I too remember Baggio being sold - the different there is, he didnt have 19 years of history behind him.

Theres too many people here who hold SENTIMENT in higher regard that winning at all costs. They turn around and start berating the people (and accusing them of having no respect) who come out and say that ADP didnt deserve to start. Respect has nothign to do with it. There is a game to be won. A legend in his own right - ADP is no longer the same player. He deserves to leave on his terms and winning the league is a nice way to see him off. I will be as sad as the rest of the fans when the number 10 isnt worn by ADP, but like all legends, he too much move on.

Damiao is a great striker - people here arent convinced because hes not 'EU proven' or hes already 22 and not in europe or whatever BS is spewed around. Hes a quality quality player. Our targets - Cavani, Damiao and Jovetic if you ask me. Ask Matri to move on. Bring back Giovinco and Immobile.


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Damiao seems to be way more techncally gifted then Cavani and the rest of the CFs in Europe.. Being that tall and that technically gifted reminds me of... Ibra. OMG, imagine if he turns out to be as good as Ibra when we got him from Ajax!!! I have to disagree on the point of getting both Damiao and Cavani. Cavani will cost at least 40 million € and is nowhere near worth this amount of money. Id rather sign creativity in Jovetic, Giovinco, Munian or whatever and add a technically gifted porcher like Damiao or Higuain.
Notice the way Barca or RM play their game - nither needs a big target man up front. Pace, technique and creativity is what makes them win their games by a big margin, creating chances constantly will inevitable lead you to find the net. Cavani can do nothing for himself in a 1-1 :coffee:


Last edited by LWL91 on Mon May 21, 2012 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Lynx100 Mon May 21, 2012 8:53 am

MMM wrote:Great article but I'd like to mention some points:
- I don't see a huge difference between Borriello, matri and quagliarella therefore the idea can be keeping borriello for around 5 millions and sell one or even both matri and quagliarella to generate more money. I am a big fan of quaglia but before he loses more market value it's better to replace him. keeping him as our 3rd choice cf/ss is another choice.

- as for cavani, he's not my first choice cause he wasn't that great cavani in second half of this season and IMO that was one of the reasons napoli failed to reach CL. so spending 40-45m on him as our top purchase this summer is not a safe choice.

- I believe gio won't be a part of our team next season due to his and his agent's attitude

I must say - thats an interesting point but rather than spending 8mill on Boriello, why dont we bring back Immobile?! We own him... hes had a great season, and especially if Veratti is coming, would form a great understanding.

Bring back Immobile, send Boriello packing - and then selling Matri and Quags, and brining in Jovetic & Cavani/Damiao (or DROGBA/BERBATOV on the cheap!!!!) would be more to my liking.
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Post by Lynx100 Mon May 21, 2012 8:55 am

LWL91 wrote:

Damiao seems to be way more techncally gifted then Cavani and the rest of the CFs in Europe.. Being that tall and that technically gifted reminds me of... Ibra. OMG, imagine if he turns out to be as good as Ibra when we got him from Ajax!!! I have to disagree on the point of getting both Damiao and Cavani. Cavani will cost at least 40 million € and is nowhere near worth this amount of money. Id rather sign creativity in Jovetic, Giovinco, Munian or whatever and add a technically gifted porcher like Damiao or Higuain.

Thats a fair point - we cant afford Cavani AND Damiao.

Cavani or Damiao + Jovetic + Berbatov or Drogba + Vucinic + Immobile + Giovinco = gold
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Post by LWL91 Mon May 21, 2012 8:57 am

Lynx100 wrote:
LWL91 wrote:

Damiao seems to be way more techncally gifted then Cavani and the rest of the CFs in Europe.. Being that tall and that technically gifted reminds me of... Ibra. OMG, imagine if he turns out to be as good as Ibra when we got him from Ajax!!! I have to disagree on the point of getting both Damiao and Cavani. Cavani will cost at least 40 million € and is nowhere near worth this amount of money. Id rather sign creativity in Jovetic, Giovinco, Munian or whatever and add a technically gifted porcher like Damiao or Higuain.

Thats a fair point - we cant afford Cavani AND Damiao.

Cavani or Damiao + Jovetic + Berbatov or Drogba + Vucinic + Immobile + Giovinco = gold

Higuain, Jovetic, Berbatov, Vucinic, Immobile, Giovinco. 3 CFs, 3 SSs and back to the 4-3-3 we go
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Post by MMM Mon May 21, 2012 9:18 am

Lynx100 wrote:
MMM wrote:Great article but I'd like to mention some points:
- I don't see a huge difference between Borriello, matri and quagliarella therefore the idea can be keeping borriello for around 5 millions and sell one or even both matri and quagliarella to generate more money. I am a big fan of quaglia but before he loses more market value it's better to replace him. keeping him as our 3rd choice cf/ss is another choice.

- as for cavani, he's not my first choice cause he wasn't that great cavani in second half of this season and IMO that was one of the reasons napoli failed to reach CL. so spending 40-45m on him as our top purchase this summer is not a safe choice.

- I believe gio won't be a part of our team next season due to his and his agent's attitude

I must say - thats an interesting point but rather than spending 8mill on Boriello, why dont we bring back Immobile?! We own him... hes had a great season, and especially if Veratti is coming, would form a great understanding.

Bring back Immobile, send Boriello packing - and then selling Matri and Quags, and brining in Jovetic & Cavani/Damiao (or DROGBA/BERBATOV on the cheap!!!!) would be more to my liking.
8 million is too much for borriello but It's been reported that marotta is in talk with roma to bring him cheap as roma doesn't want him due to his high salary other than that I'm 100% for immobile.he had a great season and he can't be worse that our current strikers.all he need is conte's trust and playing time.
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Post by Lynx100 Mon May 21, 2012 9:21 am

goes back to the: Higuain vs Cavani argument - to each their own. Boh are great but we already know that Cavani does well in Seria A. Its LESS of a gamble but noones going to be disappointed if either of these champions arrive.

Infact, rather than Cavani + Giovinco --> Damiao + Suarez is more attractive option... and probably will cost the same... ? Neutral
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Post by Lynx100 Mon May 21, 2012 9:24 am

Even if its 5mill rather than 8mill... id rather not waste than on Boriello.

He will be 30, and the money for his transfer (5mill + his wages) could easily pay for a better, younger player rather than keeping a distinctly average, never was-never will be-player who will just end up as a liability after a season on our wagebooks..


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Post by MMM Mon May 21, 2012 9:30 am

Lynx100 wrote:Even if its 5mill rather than 8mill... id rather not waste than on Boriello.

He will be 30, and the money for his transfer (5mill + his wages) could easily pay for a better, younger player rather than keeping a distinctly average, never was-never will be-player who will just end up as a liability after a season on our wagebooks..


agree but with 3 competitions next year we need players in our attacking department. Delpiero is gone and with that scenario we wont have matri and quag so sending borriello away means we will be with a top striker like Higuain/cavani/suarez (I believe we will get none of them) + giovinco/damiao + vucinic + immobile and that's not enough
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Post by LWL91 Mon May 21, 2012 10:14 am

If Pirlo can play 40 games a season at age 32 then so can either of our new strikers. Don't you underestimate the Immobile we get back - he is a goalscorer with confidence at age 22. He is gold!!
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Post by The_ItalianFool Mon May 21, 2012 11:50 am

Lynx100 wrote:Careful Juve-Gigi..

Half the forum here has started to warm up to the Absolute Clown that is Boriello - infact, some of the oldest and founding members of this forum think Boriello would be useful. Goes to show some serious lack of judgment. People claiming to "sell all our 3 forwards and keep Boriello because he works so hard" and asking for Boriello loan extension :facepalm: :facepalm: Clueless...

MMM wrote:
I don't see a huge difference between Borriello, matri and quagliarella therefore the idea can be keeping borriello for around 5 millions and sell one or even both matri and quagliarella to generate more money. I am a big fan of quaglia but before he loses more market value it's better to replace him. keeping him as our 3rd choice cf/ss is another choice.

Clueless and lack of judgement?

The fact is that we can sell Matri for a much higher price than Quag, and if we can redeem Borriello for half of the agreed amount, it would be worth it to spend 4-5 mil on Borriello, sell Matri for like 18 mil, and having more money to invest or to bring the club out of debt.

The main point that you seem not to acknowledge is this: is Matri really that much of a step up on Borriello when it comes to being a 2nd or 3rd choice striker?

-here, read this. maybe it will enlighten you a bit: http://banana-kick.net/player-of-the-alessandro-matri-all-he-needs-is/

That article shows that Matri is good when he gets a lot of playing time. With the purchase of one, maybe even 2, as Gigi suggests, top strikers, do you see Matri getting a lot of time? I doubt it.

All I see is a player worthy of a starting spot on another team sitting on our bench who generally (with the exception of the Milan match) is not an impact player to come off the bench. Waste of money and talent.

Oh, and not to mention that Matri is better at fast counter attack plays rather than slow build up playing like Juventus employs.
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Post by DeviAngel Mon May 21, 2012 12:45 pm

Sorry but Borriello was the best player on the field yesterday, he won 5 fk's, he won every single duel and made 3 balls for the attackers but no1 followed him,he even won so many headers in our box.... Sorry when he is not preforming I am saying that he is the first to get subbed but yesterday he was the best player on the field with Pepe. I think you just use him as scapegoat.... Be realistic for once ....and statisctily he is still our best ST in number of apps and goals Very Happy. I think you guys are very unfair towards him he left his heart on the field yesterday
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Post by 7amood11 Mon May 21, 2012 3:29 pm

I agree with most of the OP's points. I think you were a little too extreme talking about Del Piero, he still has a bit left in his tank to play as an impact sub. But it was wrong to start him last night.
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Mon May 21, 2012 4:18 pm

Great post,

Borriello is such a :facepalm: :facepalm:

I didn't get to watch the game cos I was travelling but I saw the highlights and whilst it would be a bit unfair of me to rate players, I think that u were a bit unfair with Storari, I think both goals, there wasn't much he could have done about it.

I would think our defense sucked real bad.......

I think we took the game very lightly and the better team won.

Next season we could do with Giovinco [most of u don't like him but he is quality]

Cavani would be a great purchase too..........
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Post by pedrosom Mon May 21, 2012 7:56 pm

Storari give them a penalty but Bonucci was horrible yesterday. Conte was too "nice" last night when he let Del Piero playing for 60 minutes. I'm sorry but it's true.
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Post by GiacomelaJuventuseraprimo Mon May 21, 2012 8:07 pm

Alessandro Del Piero is my 2nd favorite player (Zinadine Zi-G.O.A.T), he has been a Juventino for 19+ yrs and the legendary #10 since almost 12yrs ago; he always come up clutch for Juve, be it with a gol-alla-Del Piero, a piece of individual brilliance to deek-out defenders and bury a chance, a superb assist (Trez???///Inzaghi/////Kovacevic Sad :facepalm: for them to finish, etc. etc. I have mad-respect for the BOSS!!!!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:, BUT he's 37 years old and time for Juve to (unsuccessfully) look for the new Del Piero, remember 1995, anyone????? Jovetic,Higuain,Quagliarella,Vucinic,Immobile would be a good start :bow: :bow: ps. Darko Kovacevic :facepalm:, never will forget Juventus 4-1 AS Monaco :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

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Post by NavJuve Mon May 21, 2012 8:46 pm

juve_gigi wrote:
Lesson #1:

Storari is a backup goalkeeper. I know this seems obvious now but I was on this forum when people were insisting he should be our starting goalie this year. Shame on anyone who had an even remote thought of Storari ever taking Gigi's place.

Lesson #3:

Del Piero. You are a legend but it is time to go. I can't believe people are so angry with Del Piero leaving and trying to blame it all on Agnelli. Today proved that Del Piero is a substitute player at best and can only play coming off the bench for a 20 minute period. However, being in Champions League next year having a 20 minute player is a luxury we cannot afford. Too many games are involved with 3 competitions and we cannot have someone taking a bench spot who can only play 20 minutes. Sorry, but I watched Juventus sell Roberto Baggio in his PRIME, so I guess I have learned not to shed the same amount of tears for Del Piero as some of the younger folks on this forum.

Forza Juve!!!

Ciao tutti...

I admit I agree with almost everything you say, but I have to disagree with these two points.

In terms of Storari being a backup keeper I agree, but I still think you underestimate him, he showed us last season that he can step up to the big stage and he could challenge most teams for the 1st spot, unfortunatly for him he has Buffon to compete with and yesterday was just one bad game.

In terms of Del Piero, I don't believe he has nothing to offer, and I say that without the effect of sentiment. He has shown against the few minutes against Lazio and Roma and other times throughout the season at how much he can offer that I don't think younger less experiences players can't, no matter how good. With that much experience, he can offer things Messi and Ronaldo can't. Yesterday was unlucky and his partnership with Borrello didn't work, which I think was more Boriello's fault than his.
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Post by Luca Mon May 21, 2012 8:56 pm

About Boriello and Juventus' forwards in general.

Let me ask you this question:
What games were won this season because of Juventus' strikers?

Juventus lost the midfield battle and that is why they lost with Napoli. They turned it on the last 25 minutes of the game but it was too late.

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Post by LWL91 Mon May 21, 2012 9:05 pm

pedrosom wrote:Storari give them a penalty but Bonucci was horrible yesterday. Conte was too "nice" last night when he let Del Piero playing for 60 minutes. I'm sorry but it's true.

Bonucci was man of the match for me............ not even kidding. He built up play from defense, crucial tackles and even a great effort on goal. He really has become class in my opinion.
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Post by LWL91 Mon May 21, 2012 9:09 pm

Luca wrote:About Boriello and Juventus' forwards in general.

Let me ask you this question:
What games were won this season because of Juventus' strikers?

Juventus lost the midfield battle and that is why they lost with Napoli. They turned it on the last 25 minutes of the game but it was too late.

Vucinic could have offered something none of our other strikers can.. We lost the midfield to Inler and co but Vidal was not really fit and Pirlo was too slow and inaccurate - little golden passes from him!!! ADP or Boriello is NOT the reason we lost but they could have done more up front to make Napoli push back and defend sooner then mid 2nd half!!!!
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Post by Luca Mon May 21, 2012 10:01 pm

Yeah you're right about Mirko, in a 3-5-2 he does operate as a striker (his best position in my opinion).

I actually would have played Vucinic-Del Piero up top, then brought on Quagliarella for either.

But this game is past us, the players who got Juventus to the final were given the opportunity to play out the final, that's only respectful.

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Post by salmano9 Mon May 21, 2012 10:07 pm

True alex deserved to play .. But we really needed to win so vucinic imo would have been a better option.. Tbh, all of our STs suck . Borrielo thou was beast vs napoli and is improving day by day.. quag and matri are shit . And no, quag was never the same before his injury.

WE WANT HIGUIAN/CAVANI/DAMAIO/ RVP(IMPOSSIBLE) IF WE DONT GET ANY OF THESE THEN WE ARE DOOMED NEXT SEASON
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LESSONS we learned today... Empty Re: LESSONS we learned today...

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