La Masia

Free_cat, that picture of Dongou is very misleading, he does not have that much muscles, I think he is one of the smallest players in Juvenile A with Grimaldo in terms of size.

tonykross wrote:Barcakizz, your assumptions are not also correct, La masia have not had a long history with African players until the Samuel Eto'o foundation signed an agreement with FC Barcelona. 15 players were recruited into La Masia, of the 15 players Gael Etock left for Sporting Lisbon and I don't have any information on the other four players. The remaining ten Cameroonians are doing great in their respective youth levels except for Armand Ella who has been injured all year. The other Africans I could remember are Haruna and one other Nigerian. I would also like to emphasize that youth development is very unpredictable, some players you might think would become superstars might not even make it as professionals and vice versa, Balottelli was even rejected by La Masia and he has the potentials to become a superstar, if he has his attitude right.

I know. I don't see why this matters though. Why can we assume we are getting all the players with correct ages? There's a history of this happening in football, and so it can happen to us. Thats all I'm saying. Its very likely it has happened to us already...

As for your question on technique... The easiest way to gauge technique is things like first touch, quality and slickness of ball control, weighting of passes, shooting technique, dribbling etc. Barca players generally have very good technique. Some of the best technicians in the modern game are, for me, Messi, Iniesta, Xavi and David Silva.

Deulofeu does not have a better technique than Dongou except you've not watched both of them play. Dongou has a better first touch and close control in tight spaces, his shooting is better with both feet and has better vision. most of Deuleufeu's assists have come from crosses just like Christiano Ronaldo. I have seen Dongou provide messilike through balls for his teamates to score on numerous occasions.Deulofeu's main attribute is his speed and has a strong shot with his right foot. I've not really seen him shoot that well with his left foot.watch Dongou's assist in the nextgen series against Celtics, that's eagle's eye vision "Messilike".

Tbh... they are both young... they are both great and have good technique. They possess a few different strengths its obvious. I don't intend to get caught up in this comparison game as I like them both and want to see both in the first team as soon as possible.

Its too late here... I don't want to make such judgements yet. On reassessment Dongou is better in many ways thats for sure.

free_cat wrote:The kid didn't fabricate his age, he didn't know it or have actual proof. You are being racist to suggest that.
He was from Gambia, but I know plenty of other cases of Gambians and Nigerians (no cameroonians in my town). African administrative chaos is something spread.

So if a Bulgarian is known for something should I conclude that the Irish are similar because they're on the same continent?...Are you pleading ignorance rather than prejudice?

free_cat wrote:Btw, even our club president, Sandro Rosell, has doubts of the age of many of our african players in the Masia, and said so during his campaign, I can easily link it to you.

So easy you couldn't, I see

free_cat wrote:I didn't like that he voiced these doubts publicly on the media because I feel is blaming the kids, and he shouldn't do that cause they are innocent: they just don't know their real age. He also said that la Masia should focus on Catalan players. I criticized both statements when this happened in this forum for being innapropiate the first one, and xenophobic the second (Kizz or other fellow members probably remember).

I honestly don't know what you're on about but that's not relevant to our conversation...Are you now switching gears and asking if I like Rosell?

free_cat wrote:No, but seriously, do you know who is dongou? Cause you made me really wonder with your comment that he is not a phyisical freak, when everything that stands out of his game is his speed, power and strength.

No, but seriously, where can you provide evidence of me stating Dongou was frail, lean, beast or whatever?...I said he is not some physical freak of nature for someone of his age...He has just turned 17...He's 5'6" and less than 150lbs...Yeah, that's a physical freak alright - if you're a munchkin :matrix:

Gotta say, I'm disappointed cat...Just joined and you seemed like a sensible poster from the outset but you've unraveled in a pretty juvenile manner

FCBarça wrote:

free_cat wrote:The kid didn't fabricate his age, he didn't know it or have actual proof. You are being racist to suggest that.
He was from Gambia, but I know plenty of other cases of Gambians and Nigerians (no cameroonians in my town). African administrative chaos is something spread.

So if a Bulgarian is known for something should I conclude that the Irish are similar because they're on the same continent?...Are you pleading ignorance rather than prejudice?

free_cat wrote:Btw, even our club president, Sandro Rosell, has doubts of the age of many of our african players in the Masia, and said so during his campaign, I can easily link it to you.

So easy you couldn't, I see

free_cat wrote:I didn't like that he voiced these doubts publicly on the media because I feel is blaming the kids, and he shouldn't do that cause they are innocent: they just don't know their real age. He also said that la Masia should focus on Catalan players. I criticized both statements when this happened in this forum for being innapropiate the first one, and xenophobic the second (Kizz or other fellow members probably remember).

I honestly don't know what you're on about but that's not relevant to our conversation...Are you now switching gears and asking if I like Rosell?

a)Administratively:
Bulgary =/= Ireland
Cameroon = Nigeria = Gambia = Togo..... =/= South Africa

b)Link to Rosell doubting african player's age:
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/05062010/47/liga-rosell-quiere-africano-masia.html
I suppose you need a translation, it's in spanish.

c) I don't want to go anywhere, I'm just informing of vital stuff from our club and stating my position.

FCBarça wrote:

free_cat wrote:No, but seriously, do you know who is dongou? Cause you made me really wonder with your comment that he is not a phyisical freak, when everything that stands out of his game is his speed, power and strength.

No, but seriously, where can you provide evidence of me stating Dongou was frail, lean, beast or whatever?...I said he is not some physical freak of nature for someone of his age...He has just turned 17...He's 5'6" and less than 150lbs...Yeah, that's a physical freak alright - if you're a munchkin :matrix:

Gotta say, I'm disappointed cat...Just joined and you seemed like a sensible poster from the outset but you've unraveled in a pretty juvenile manner

You said he isn't a physical beast, and for 17 years old he is. Can't find any official data of his weight, so unless you have mesured himself, I trust the images on TV and pictures like this:



Could you please stop demeaning me? I haven't said a single bad word about you, although your arguments are very manipulative an uninformed.

tonykross wrote:Free_cat what do you define as technique in football as youth coach ? is Deulofeu more technical than Dongou and in what aspects ? lets discuss football here, I would like to know your thoughts.

Just to clarify that I'm not a youth coach anymore, I coached for a couple of years to help a local club.

I agree with Kizz definition, I would add keeping posession, heading and first touch to technical abilities.

tonykross wrote:Deulofeu does not have a better technique than Dongou except you've not watched both of them play. Dongou has a better first touch and close control in tight spaces, his shooting is better with both feet and has better vision. most of Deuleufeu's assists have come from crosses just like Christiano Ronaldo. I have seen Dongou provide messilike through balls for his teamates to score on numerous occasions.Deulofeu's main attribute is his speed and has a strong shot with his right foot. I've not really seen him shoot that well with his left foot.watch Dongou's assist in the nextgen series against Celtics, that's eagle's eye vision "Messilike".

I completely agree with you that Dongou has a better left foot than Deulofeu, and taht he is a good passer and has nice vision, but Deulofeu has improved a lot his passing recently. Deulofeu has a way better dribling and I think his close control and first touch is on par with Dongou.

Anyway, they are not rivals: Dongou is a striker, Deulofeu a winger. Dongou is a killer and a much better striker than Deulofeu ever will be. Deulofeu is a winger and there's no contest there either.

They are both great prospects that I hope can finally jump to our first team and help us win trophies. All I'm saying, is that I think Deulofeu has a better chance to become a starter sooner or later than Dongou, mainly because Dongou plays as striker and we have Messi there, and also because having a targetman kind of player is not very suited to us, and that's what Dongou is currently (maybe he can change, I don't discard that option).

I reiterate, there's no reason to put Deulofeu against Dongou because they are not rivals.

Free_cat lets just leave it like that, they're all great prospects.I would like both of them to succeed and help us win trophies.you're absolutely correct Dongou will have to wait, because Messi currently owns the middle of the pitch.Deulofeu will be more useful to provide width against parked buses.

free_cat wrote:You said he isn't a physical beast, and for 17 years old he is. Can't find any official data of his weight, so unless you have mesured himself, I trust the images on TV and pictures like this:

I use the available information along with my own eyes, I don't generalize and I certainly wouldn't go by a TV image to judge someone's size

But, yep, he sure looks a beast to me...Shorter than even that beast Geri


Really impressive physical presence, towering over that whole back row at Juvenil A this season

free_cat wrote:Could you please stop demeaning me? I haven't said a single bad word about you, although your arguments are very manipulative an uninformed.

I'd edit all my insulting comments to you retroactively like you have on your posts to me but there aren't any to edit...Saves time to not lob them at others from the outset, just a suggestion

free_cat wrote:

The kid has twice the quad size of Cristiano, he's a physical beast all right.

How did Eusebio get an extension?...Embarrassing defense tonight...Deulofeu looked impressive - particularly his workrate...Rafinha, chopped down left & right and ref never seemed inclined to book the Valladolid players - so of course, it continued...Sergio Roberto, still an enigma

FCBarça wrote:
I use the available information along with my own eyes, I don't generalize and I certainly wouldn't go by a TV image to judge someone's size

But, yep, he sure looks a beast to me...Shorter than even that beast Geri


Really impressive physical presence, towering over that whole back row at Juvenil A this season

free_cat wrote:Could you please stop demeaning me? I haven't said a single bad word about you, although your arguments are very manipulative an uninformed.

I'd edit all my insulting comments to you retroactively like you have on your posts to me but there aren't any to edit...Saves time to not lob them at others from the outset, just a suggestion

Yeah, why don't you come up with even older pictures? Those are old pics, Dongou doesn't have this haircut since some time now. The one I posted is recent. Dongou is not very tall, this doesn't mean he is not a physical beast: strong, fast, athletic, powerful.

I don't understand what you mean with your last paragraph. I didn't edit any insult and/or didn't insult you at any time. All I said is you said some stupid things and I stand by it (everyone says stupid things sometimes, non-stupid people too).

FCBarça wrote:How did Eusebio get an extension?...Embarrassing defense tonight...Deulofeu looked impressive - particularly his workrate...Rafinha, chopped down left & right and ref never seemed inclined to book the Valladolid players - so of course, it continued...Sergio Roberto, still an enigma

I don't like Eusebio, but the defence wasn't that bad. Consider that the CB were Sergi Gomez and Armando and the left back Lobato!
I was more dissapointed by our complete unability to control the game the slightest all the match long. Nice goal from Carmona after an assist from Rodri in a play briliiantly started by Rafinha and Deulofeu.

FCBarca, 5'6" and 150 lbs is a lot for a 17 year old.

free_cat wrote:Yeah, why don't you come up with even older pictures? Those are old pics, Dongou doesn't have this haircut since some time now. The one I posted is recent. Dongou is not very tall, this doesn't mean he is not a physical beast: strong, fast, athletic, powerful.

How old is it when most of them are from this season?...Recognize the kits?...The only 'older' one is one from last season - did he go beast in one season?...You looking for a pic from yesterday?

free_cat wrote:I don't understand what you mean with your last paragraph. I didn't edit any insult and/or didn't insult you at any time. All I said is you said some stupid things and I stand by it (everyone says stupid things sometimes, non-stupid people too).

You insulted me and retroactively edited those posts, are you really going to play the ignorance card?...Let's try & be honest eh?...Let's move on here and hopefully the insults will not return when you aren't content with the direction of a discussion

kiranr wrote:
FCBarca, 5'6" and 150 lbs is a lot for a 17 year old.

I'm a physician, this is a very incorrect assertion on your part...That is not a lot, it's right in the normal range...5'6" is actually the 14th percentile while the weight is in the 62nd percentile

FCBarça wrote:

free_cat wrote:Yeah, why don't you come up with even older pictures? Those are old pics, Dongou doesn't have this haircut since some time now. The one I posted is recent. Dongou is not very tall, this doesn't mean he is not a physical beast: strong, fast, athletic, powerful.

How old is it when most of them are from this season?...Recognize the kits?...The only 'older' one is one from last season - did he go beast in one season?...You looking for a pic from yesterday?

Recent non-photoshopped picture:


/end of this debate.

FCBarça wrote:

free_cat wrote:I don't understand what you mean with your last paragraph. I didn't edit any insult and/or didn't insult you at any time. All I said is you said some stupid things and I stand by it (everyone says stupid things sometimes, non-stupid people too).

You insulted me and retroactively edited those posts, are you really going to play the ignorance card?...Let's try & be honest eh?...Let's move on here and hopefully the insults will not return when you aren't content with the direction of a discussion

No, I didn't insult you at any time. All I said is that you said stupid things and that is not edited. I edit my posts a lot to correct ortography+grammar, but I haven't edited any insult to you, cause I haven't insulted you and I never insult anyone. I've only been downed twice for trolling Bayern munich and Bundesliga, but never for insulting, and I've been here for some years already.

free_cat wrote:
I don't like Eusebio, but the defence wasn't that bad. Consider that the CB were Sergi Gomez and Armando and the left back Lobato!
I was more dissapointed by our complete unability to control the game the slightest all the match long. Nice goal from Carmona after an assist from Rodri in a play briliiantly started by Rafinha and Deulofeu.

Armando doesn't really have a future and he's fine for Segunda but Gomez has been talked about for years and, frankly, I've yet to understand it...The Centerbacks in particular were getting sliced & diced with through balls and Planas/Lobato was no better...It was a remarkably poor showing from the defense but Eusebio has done little to improve the defending with this B team...The back 4 seem to be routinely susceptible to being picked apart, it leaves little in the way of optimism for any promotable defenders...Even Muniesa wasn't able to boss his area

That was Rodri's single good decision on the night...He played hard but showed selfishness and very little end product...He has not panned out as planned thus far but again it makes me question Eusebio...They don't look similar to Lucho's side

Tip for the future, showing a player by themselves gives no perspective on their size

Not photoshopped either...and there's actually other players to compare to...imagine the beast with a shaved head, he'd even be 'shorter'

Sergi Gomez doesn't have a future at the club, he is too slow, and is not brilliant on the ball like other slow CBS (Fontas). Him and Armando could relatively cope yesterday because we played very deep.

I think Muniesa had a good match, a lot of interceptions and he could launch some counters.

Agreed on Rodri, it was specially fragrant that counter in which he decided to shot without angle, instead of assisting to Deulofeu in the center.

FCBarça wrote:Tip for the future, showing a player by themselves gives no perspective on their side

Not photoshopped either...and there's actually other players to compare to

The only thing this picture shows is that Dongou is not tall, something I've never argued. It also shows that your data is incorrect, because Bañuz is 1.85 and Dongous looks around 10 cm shorter, so he is around 1:75, not the 1.68 that 5'6" translates to.

physical beast =/= tall.

Peter crouch is not a physical beast and he is tall.

/end of debate.

Shorter & lighter than Deulofeu, currently...So he's a beast sideways?...Your argument about him being a beast of a player at his age and not reflecting someone of 17 continues to unravel, freecat...Admit you made a mistake, move on...He's not suddenly going to be a different size, let it go

You drew a sweeping generalization about someone from an African country and cast aspersions about his 'true' age when there has been no evidence to back up your accusations...None...There is no precedent that you could produce that demonstrated this sort of problem happens with Cameroonian players and instead incredibly lumped him in with other African countries

All of this intended to undermine the credibility of the player, a player in our club's cantera which is hard to comprehend...You can debate who is a better prospect etc. but cutting the kid down because he might be an old man or beast is something I'd expect from a Madridista

Personally, I think this stems more from you having an issue with Graham Hunter and him heaping hyperbolic praise on the player or perhaps, unfortunately, you have issues with race...Praise I don't think is accurate either but doesn't equate to questioning his age...Your conduct in this matter has been pretty immature

The good in any event, is that Deulofeu really has looked a different player over the last few matches...Something has clicked, curious what happened...Either way, I know Deulofeu will get more first team run outs this pre-season...Hopefully, Dongou will get some chances too

FCBarça wrote:

kiranr wrote:
FCBarca, 5'6" and 150 lbs is a lot for a 17 year old.

I'm a physician, this is a very incorrect assertion on your part...That is not a lot, it's right in the normal range...5'6" is actually the 14th percentile while the weight is in the 62nd percentile

What about the age? Do kids develop as much body weight by then?

kiranr wrote:What about the age? Do kids develop as much body weight by then?

That's how growth charts work...They incorporate norms for age, weight & height using the principle of BMI...The standards of normal have been in place for decades and in the Pediatric world, there have been calls to change it since kids are more & more obese these days...However, currently, Jean Marie is normal for his physical attributes...Even small in some regards for his age but then again, so was Leo