Re: Forum Milan Channel: LIVE!

[Milan31]

I missed the first half so I can't comment on that. But I felt we were going to score in the 2nd half, I thought we played okay but we just need the final touch to get the damn ball into the goal!

Muntari and Nocerino were wasteful. Cassano and Prince were great! Ibra is Ibra, what a flick to Prince to finish it off. I am really happy with this win, we needed it, we just need our confidence back and we will be okay. Juve unfortunately got a win as well but we are still 3 points back, but there is still time people!

The negativity is unbelievable guys, anything is possible, just keep faith.

FORZA MILAN!

[Milan31]

Oh and about Allegri and wanting his head, I think that is really unfair to him. Yes I understand he is playing some stupid tactics with no creativity in the mid field whatsoever. But how do we know what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe the Galliani doesn't allow Allegri to play Aquaman because HE doesn't want to purchase him.

Maybe Allegri does ask for better players but our management are cheap f*cks and say no all the time. I think Allegri is a really good coach and he has done a fantastic job with what he has been provided! I have my moments where I am frustrated with him and want his had too but in reality, it really isn't fair. As for him playing oldies vs. younger guys, you guys have to remember he has to meet his expectations and maybe he doesn't want to risk his job playing Merkel, he would rather feel more comfortable with Seedorf. Not saying I agree with that, but it is tough to judge him on that without knows what kind of pressure Galliani and management is putting on him.

They expect him to win everything with HORRIBLE medical staff, zero money in the transfer budget and he got us a Scudetto and now he is only 3 points away for another one.

[nichabr]

Why did allegri have to take SES off urby or antonini were better choices to bring off.

Also i don't think i watched the same game as others because i think we played well...Genoa were playing with their hearts on their sleeves and were defending great.

[Arquitecto]

look, i was one of the people who supported Allegri and saying that he shouldnt be sacked and that injuries were a big big factor in our season. I also said that i was never a really big fan of his since day 1. i mean cmon, he was coach of the year with cagliari, he was known to play exciting football with his 4-3-3. now he comes to Milan, and ive never seen such a defensif Milan in my life. a Milan with an astrocious midfield like this. a LB as AM, he plays oldies instead of young ones like he did in cagliari. he did a complete 360 degree on his coaching ways. Small team coaches belong in small teams. i think we are still all hung up on the fact that he got his strategy spot-on against barca and thats why we want him to stay. but if you look at the facts, and just they way he purely coaches. he absolutely has to go. and fast. i cant take it anymore. i seriously cant. every summer its the same bullshit. no players arrive or shitty ones for free. now were delibertaly not playing players so we dont have to automatically buy them????? we have to be miracle workers and turn defenders into attackers?!?! This is not my Milan and its ripping me inside

Well I take it this is your sole debate against him

I won't count our injuries or wrongfully disallowed goals which have cost us so:

1. Allegri played 4-3-3 and exciting football at Cagliari because he had the mobility and technicality within his midfield players to actually play such a formation. Unfortunately at Milan, either we have old and slow players way past their prime, or younger but technically deficient players with little creativity. I don't need to count the fact how riddled we have been with injuries or that Aquilani quite clearly is being frozen out for Liverpool to buy back.

Do you really need an example of how bad this Milan actually is with a 4-3-3? Have you even followed Milan games in the past 2 years?

2. Urby is NOT an LB. At Ajax he was completely frozen out of the position since he was piss poor at it and then reverted back to his original position which is a winger. Playing him at AM provides tactical flexibility with his pace and pressing along with his very occasional flashes of brilliance. He is nowhere near good enough to play that position, but its better than playing him at LB in which he is atrocious at.

3. Name any other formation aside from his usual 4312/41212 as I'll take it apart. Please do not name 4-2-1-3 or 4-2-3-1 as this would be PURE SUICIDE. Any other formation in mind? No, this is simply without a doubt the single best formation that can be used for this limited squad and there is no doubt about this.

4. How is it that we have the highest goals scored and one of the highest possession stats? Our team is pure attacking? How in the world are we defensive? How in the world was our performance against Barca similar to our tactics normally we play? Seriously? Quite obviously you confuse this because we have a midfield with the creativity of a pear. Aquilani I already explained, Seedorf has been costly to our general play with his lack of pace and wayward passing, Merkel has been injured while the rest lack any creativity. Guys like Nocerino, Muntari Gattuso have 0 creativity as if you actually watched our games without freaking out, you would understand that our tactics are good enough yet its the midfield who is too poor. MvB is the only DM who starts despite the common myth and Nocerino or Muntari despite their goals provide literally NOTHING.

Our fullbacks are important to play and provide width yet both aren't the most skilled in attack which is the reason behind the lack of width, which is why Allegri was brilliant to play urby wide as LM today while Boateng was an inside forward as this width was the catalyst to our goal along with Cassano's brilliance.

Fact is this team is going nowhere unless we actually sign some above average players with some technical skill and at least some creativity as Allegri stressed he wanted.

You blame Allegri for these players yet I guess you don't know he is NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR BUYING PLAYERS.

Frankly, I think you've been reading to much Milanguy or this usual Italian-american twitter bandwagon who don't know the slightest bit about football aside from their recycled jokes and piss poor analysis. Word of advice, stop reading them.

Your complete polar support of Allegri is quite disappointing as you obviously have failed to see the circumstances involved.


_______________________________________________

This was my response to Tony which seems to be the trend of this forum so far.

The knee-jerk polarity of this forum is quite painful and laughable as I'm used to the conclusions jumped upon here. No one will also praise that we had a superb 2nd half with some smart subs along with fighting a club battling for relegation which is quite dangerous.

And Genoa played 4-4-1 with 10 men as this doesn't make any difference at all to how open they were to concede a goal.

[pUsHa]

We're still in a terrible form .... let's hope this win can give some motivation to the lads and that we actually challenge Juve until the last matchday !

[Forza]

Listen up people, we have to keep faith in our team and faith in our coach until the end. We can get there, Juve barely scraped through against already relegated Cesena... there is still hope until the end. In fact, playing against relegation-threatened teams will probably prove extremely difficult at this stage of the season for obvious reasons.

Use Arq's writing as an example for how to analyse issues. You have to be critical, but not necessarily completely negative, or completely positive. In other words, there are shades of grey in almost every debate. If you attack the bad things that Allegri does, you have to also give credit to him for what he does well. It helps to take a step back and think for a while before writing.

When you write in immediate reaction to a game, your thoughts become unclear and unstructured, the logical flow of the argument is lost and whatever you wanted to say (which may have been a more balanced critique) is compromised because of your mood at the time. For example, Allegri is almost certainly not to blame for most player purchases. However, if you had mentioned Galliani instead, that would've made sense.

So my main message is to be cool and always address any counter-arguments in your own comment to avoid a rebuke from Arq, etc.

In response to Arq, it is sometimes said that the Milan section has an underlying negative attitude. I disagree with this. I think the tendency for some to accept polarised views as truth (as you suggested) is commonly mistaken for negativity.

On to the analysis...

Cagliari and Milan are two different teams. 4-3-3 has comprehensively failed at Milan (see Arsenal v Milan, Emirates, 1st half for an example).

Emanuelson is a resource that we have to revert to because our stocks are so low at the moment. I'm 100% sure that Allegri would not choose him as a starter with the rest of the team fit. As you mentioned, he cannot play LB. In fact, he wasn't even playing as a winger at Ajax before we bought him - Urby was playing as a kind of wide forward, who did minimal defending. I was highly sceptical as soon as we bought him because of this fact. He will never be used in an optimal situation at Milan. Therefore, Allegri employs him as a fill-in-the-gaps utility player. I can't really blame him for that.

Nocerino is very underrated. His main contribution is not his goals, but his work-rate. He fights for the team for the full 90 minutes: marking, tackling, passing, creating space. Sometimes he doesn't do himself favours by trying to compensate for the general lack of creativity, but I like that he at least tries to get things moving when the game becomes static.

A point of difference between our opinions may be Muntari. Although, I won't go anywhere near as far to say that he is nothing without his occasional goal. My problem with Muntari is when he is chosen over more creative players, such as Aquilani or Merkel. There is an opportunity cost in choosing one player over another. With the benefits of one choice, we won't see the benefits of having the other player. My question is whether he provides enough to justify his place?

As far as I know, Aqua and Merkel are actually fit right now. Both have been in full training for some time. Of course, I will show deference to Allegri who clearly would have a much more intimate knowledge of the circumstances.

Briefly, some of my own observations:

- Boateng is a beast. Even though the goal was not spectacular, he's often in the right place at the right time. The sign of a very smart and dynamic player.

- Has Allegri finally learned to avoid playing Bonera when he can? Yepes was much better.

- Cassano is naturally brilliant. Fit or not, he's a certainty for Euro.

- Ibrahimovic and van Bommel look fatigued. Hopefully they can be rested in a game where we are winning comfortably.

- Abate has recovered really nicely, the difference is obvious with him playing at right back.

- Granqvist. Apparently we're interested in him. Never seen the guy before today, but he was solid. Note that I'm not saying we should automatically buy him because of that, it's just one game.

[TonyDaBeast]

look, i was one of the people who supported Allegri and saying that he shouldnt be sacked and that injuries were a big big factor in our season. I also said that i was never a really big fan of his since day 1. i mean cmon, he was coach of the year with cagliari, he was known to play exciting football with his 4-3-3. now he comes to Milan, and ive never seen such a defensif Milan in my life. a Milan with an astrocious midfield like this. a LB as AM, he plays oldies instead of young ones like he did in cagliari. he did a complete 360 degree on his coaching ways. Small team coaches belong in small teams. i think we are still all hung up on the fact that he got his strategy spot-on against barca and thats why we want him to stay. but if you look at the facts, and just they way he purely coaches. he absolutely has to go. and fast. i cant take it anymore. i seriously cant. every summer its the same bullshit. no players arrive or shitty ones for free. now were delibertaly not playing players so we dont have to automatically buy them????? we have to be miracle workers and turn defenders into attackers?!?! This is not my Milan and its ripping me inside

Well I take it this is your sole debate against him

I won't count our injuries or wrongfully disallowed goals which have cost us so:

1. Allegri played 4-3-3 and exciting football at Cagliari because he had the mobility and technicality within his midfield players to actually play such a formation. Unfortunately at Milan, either we have old and slow players way past their prime, or younger but technically deficient players with little creativity. I don't need to count the fact how riddled we have been with injuries or that Aquilani quite clearly is being frozen out for Liverpool to buy back.

Do you really need an example of how bad this Milan actually is with a 4-3-3? Have you even followed Milan games in the past 2 years?

2. Urby is NOT an LB. At Ajax he was completely frozen out of the position since he was piss poor at it and then reverted back to his original position which is a winger. Playing him at AM provides tactical flexibility with his pace and pressing along with his very occasional flashes of brilliance. He is nowhere near good enough to play that position, but its better than playing him at LB in which he is atrocious at.

3. Name any other formation aside from his usual 4312/41212 as I'll take it apart. Please do not name 4-2-1-3 or 4-2-3-1 as this would be PURE SUICIDE. Any other formation in mind? No, this is simply without a doubt the single best formation that can be used for this limited squad and there is no doubt about this.

4. How is it that we have the highest goals scored and one of the highest possession stats? Our team is pure attacking? How in the world are we defensive? How in the world was our performance against Barca similar to our tactics normally we play? Seriously? Quite obviously you confuse this because we have a midfield with the creativity of a pear. Aquilani I already explained, Seedorf has been costly to our general play with his lack of pace and wayward passing, Merkel has been injured while the rest lack any creativity. Guys like Nocerino, Muntari Gattuso have 0 creativity as if you actually watched our games without freaking out, you would understand that our tactics are good enough yet its the midfield who is too poor. MvB is the only DM who starts despite the common myth and Nocerino or Muntari despite their goals provide literally NOTHING.

Our fullbacks are important to play and provide width yet both aren't the most skilled in attack which is the reason behind the lack of width, which is why Allegri was brilliant to play urby wide as LM today while Boateng was an inside forward as this width was the catalyst to our goal along with Cassano's brilliance.

Fact is this team is going nowhere unless we actually sign some above average players with some technical skill and at least some creativity as Allegri stressed he wanted.

You blame Allegri for these players yet I guess you don't know he is NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR BUYING PLAYERS.

Frankly, I think you've been reading to much Milanguy or this usual Italian-american twitter bandwagon who don't know the slightest bit about football aside from their recycled jokes and piss poor analysis. Word of advice, stop reading them.

Your complete polar support of Allegri is quite disappointing as you obviously have failed to see the circumstances involved.


_______________________________________________

This was my response to Tony which seems to be the trend of this forum so far.

The knee-jerk polarity of this forum is quite painful and laughable as I'm used to the conclusions jumped upon here. No one will also praise that we had a superb 2nd half with some smart subs along with fighting a club battling for relegation which is quite dangerous.

And Genoa played 4-4-1 with 10 men as this doesn't make any difference at all to how open they were to concede a goal.

did i ever say we have to change our formation to 4-3-3? look what happend against arsenal?? its not been 2 years friend, been watching Milan for 15 years.


2nd point, once again, i never said to play Urby at LB?!?! something tells me ur putting words in my mouth then using them as a debate.. WTF?

3rd point. i dont have a problem with 4-3-1-2, but what i DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH is the fact that when the going gets tough, absolutely nothing happens. we stick with the same formation and we tend to go to BLAST THE BALL TO IBRA strategy. which obviously doesnt work. thats what pisses me right off.. i mean cmon ur losing, ur tieing wtv and u absolutely need this result to stay in scudetto race or CL, take ur pick, nothing happens. only yesterday i finally saw how bold he was, took out antonini and put in maxi. now thats what im talking about. lets start taking some chances. at least show the will to win and not give up. too many times in important situations he subs pos for pos. ill just take an example of yesterday cuz its the freshest in my mind, but there have been countless more. u put in boa and cassano, EXCELLENT! thats the will i wanna see, the will to win. but who does he take off?! el shaarawy and was it v.bommel? n e ways. my point is y u taking off ur forward for another forward?! u have to score buddy u leave them all on. thats what i mean by he never takes chances. hes to static and accepts defeat/draw a little bit too quickly.


4th point, OMG R U SERIOUS!!! all i said is that we are hooked up about praising Allegri cuz of his spot on strategy he used against Barcelona and how it almost worked. who said it was defensive? not me thats for sure. who said it was exactly the way we play in Serie A? like i said man, your too busy putting words in my mouth that ur story book explanation isnt making any sense. and i know that our midfield is garbage, and that it doesnt help when we have 0 creativity. make barca play tiki-taka without xav-iniesta. cant do it.


5th point. ya he was brilliant playing emanu at LW AFTER THE BOATENG SUB. why didnt he do that from the beginning? hence, proving my point yet again that when he plays emanu as AM, it pisses me right the *bleep* off. and that it just purely doesnt make any sense what so ever.


6th point: Do i look like a bucket of shrimp to you Arq? do i look like a 12 year old poster who thinks Milan is Inter? i know Allegri doesnt buy the players, then who the *bleep* is Galliani?? and whats his job? to brush horses hair at milanello? i blame Allegri for my personal reasons, agree with them or not, i couldnt care less frankly. i dont need to explain everything to you, i dont need to be told im wrong and your right. as long as im concerned ur a fan just as i am and your opinion will always be an opinion. not like it really matters though. to me, to others, to galliani, to Alegri or berlusconi..

7th point:
i dont read any statements or analogy form Milanguy? or italian-american journalists or wtv the heck u said. Goal-legacy. period. something wrong with the info of some of my fellow milanistas? or is just Arq always right?

8th point:

like i said i couldnt care less if u think my attitude towards Allegri is Gay,disappointing,happy,crying,mad,sad,jolly. like its really the last thing on my mind. ''ARQS reaction :O'' how will i live today?! :O im shitting myself!!i have failed to see the circumstances. sure i have. cuz i have no eyes, i cant see, im blind. but how the hell am i typing here? how do hell am i responding to your statements? WHERE AM I TYPING FROM?!

as usual ARQ ur always right. were always wrong we knows nothing. or i know nothing lol. wtv pleases you my friend.


and CUTTTTTTTTT!!

im out

[Forza]

OK, I'm not taking sides, but seeing as my comment just got skipped over in this debate, I'm posting a small part of it again just to emphasise something...

When you write in immediate reaction to a game, your thoughts become unclear and unstructured, the logical flow of the argument is lost and whatever you wanted to say (which may have been a more balanced critique) is compromised because of your mood at the time. For example, Allegri is almost certainly not to blame for most player purchases. However, if you had mentioned Galliani instead, that would've made sense.

So my main message is to be cool and always address any counter-arguments in your own comment to avoid a rebuke from Arq, etc.

Tony, compare your original comment to the last comment you wrote.

Which one makes more sense? The second one (apart from all the rage ) . Why is that? Because you were forced to articulate your points more clearly. If you don't do that in the first place, you're pretty much asking for a reply that shoots down what you say.

Anyway, I think this debate is past it's expiration date. Let's move on.

[tehcpeng]

Berlusconi plans to axe Allegri and half the current AC Milan squad
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2012/04/27/3064272/berlusconi-plans-to-axe-allegri-and-half-the-current-ac
To me this is awesome and right to do. Our wages bill is insane with large amount of squad member but lack of quality. Is he back?

[dostoevsky]

"The media mogul also intends to offload roughly 50 per cent of the current team."

I will believe that when I see it.

[Ganso]

This will be a very interesting summer...not just for us but football overall

galliani always implied berlusconi dislikes Allegri's playing style

[TonyDaBeast]

i opened up a thread about that! lets comment there!

[Potential]

The media mogul also intends to offload roughly 50 per cent of the current team.

Offloading

• Flavio Roma - Free
  
• Gianluca Zambrotta - Free
  
• Massimo Ambrosini - Free
  
• Mathieu Flamini - Free
  
• Filippo Inzaghi - Free
  
• Mark van Bommel - Free
  
• Gennaro Gattuso - Free
  
• Sulley Muntari - Free
  
• Taye Taiwo - 6.000.000 €
  
• Djamel Mesbah - 1.000.000 € ??
  
• Alexandre Pato - 30.000.000 € ??
  
• Robinho - 15.000.000 €
  

In

• Riccardo Piscitelli - GK - Primavera 1
  
• Castellammare di Stabia - GK - Recall from Loan 1
  
• Davide Astori - CB - Free
  
• Dídac Vilà - LB - Recall From Loan
  
• Bryan Cristante - MDF - Primavera
  
• Riccardo Montolivo - MDF - Free
  
• Kevin Strootman - MDF - 8.000.000 €
  
• Hernanes - MDF - 18.000.000 £ ??
  
• Alberto Aquilani - MDF - 6.000.000 € ??
  
• Nuri Sahin - MDF - 7.000.000 £ ??
  
• Shinji Kagawa - AMF - 6.000.000 €
  
• Kingsley Boateng - CF - Primavera
  
• Alberto Paloschi - CF - Recall from Loan
  

Loan Out

• Dominic Adiyiah
  
• Michelangelo Albertazzi
  
• Cristian Daminuta
  
• Nnamdi Oduamadi
  
• Attila Filkor
  

Profit: 6.000.000 € (Our management is going to be so proud); if we don't sell Pato than -30.000.000 € loss
Final Squad:

GOALKEEPING - Christian Abbiati, Marco Amelia, Castellammare di Stabia, Riccardo Piscitelli

RB - Ignazio Abate, Luca Antonini, Daniele Bonera, Mattia De Sciglio
CB - Daniele Bonera, Alessandro Nesta, Thiago Silva, Philippe Mexes, Mario Yepes, Davide Astori
LB - Dídac Vilà, Luca Antonini, Daniele Bonera, Mattia De Sciglio, Urby Emanuelson
RMF - Antonio Nocerino,Alexander Merkel, Alberto Aquilani, Riccardo Montolivo, Bryan Cristante
CMF - Nuri Sahin, Kevin Strootman, Riccardo Montolivo, Hernanes, Alexander Merkel, Bryan Cristante
LMF - Hernanes, Antonio Nocerino, Urby Emanuelson, Alberto Aquilani,Clearance Seedorf
AMF - Kevin-Prince Boateng, Shinji Kagawa, Clearance Seedorf, Hernanes, Urby Emanuelson, Antonio Cassano
CF - Antonio Cassano, Zlatan Ibrahimovic,Stephan El Shaarawy, Maxi Lopez, Alberto Paloschi, Kingsley Boateng

green - youngsters, should be slowly introduced
orange - rotation players and backup players
blue - should retire after 2012-2013 season

The squad above is perfect for the sexy style Allegri played with Cagliari.

[TonyDaBeast]

nice sqaud, but where r u getting these prices about hernanes at 8M and kagawa at 4M i wish they were that low hahaha

[Potential]

nice sqaud, but where r u getting these prices about hernanes at 8M and kagawa at 4M i wish they were that low hahaha

Err, I made a mistake, Hernanes is around 18mills, however we can get Kagawa for 4-7mills, as his contract ends next season and he doesn't seems to want to sign a new one.

[Milan31]

22 man squad names for Siena:
Abbiati, Amelia, Piscitelli, Abate, Antonini, Bonera, Mesbah, Mexes, Nesta, Yepes, Aquilani, Boateng, Flamini, Gattuso, Merkel, Muntari, Nocerino, MvB, Cassano, SES, Ibra, Maxi.

Either Silva is being rested for the derby or he got re-injured

Weird seeing Flamini in named in the 22 man squad though

[Ganso]

Allegri said he didnt want to risk Allegri,im certain he will play the derby

btw,Robinho and Seedorf left out of the team,no injuries.Allgeri said they are off form and tired

[Forza]

Merkel in the squad once again, probably won't play though.

[Milan31]

Merkel in the squad once again, probably won't play though.

What else is new

[Forza]

Official formations...

SIENA: Brkic, Vitiello, Rossettini, Terzi, Del Grosso, Grossi, Vergassola, Gazzi, Brienza, Destro, Larrondo.

MILAN: Abbiati, Abate, Bonera, Yepes, Mesbah, Gattuso, Van Bommel, Muntari, Boateng, Ibrahimovic, Cassano.

2nd CHOICE DEFENDERS + 3 DM =

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[dostoevsky]

You've got to be kidding me.

Destro to score a brace. 3-3 draw coming up, with us equalising in the last five minutes and practically forfeiting the scudetto.

[Forza]

I wish I was joking. Our front 3 is going to have to carry us this game.

[dostoevsky]

To be fair to Mesbah, he's a good outlet going forward and works hard, however beside the most desperate central partnership we can field it looks like it's going to be a long day at the office.

When we met Siena at the San Siro they looked like they were going to be relegated, sat off us, lacked urgency on the ball and never even chased the game when they fell behind.

At home, now in the upper table, nothing to lose, entirely reinvigorated facing half the team we could offer last game in which we still didn't look like breaking them down but won thanks to their incredible apathy.

Do you know who is on the bench?

[dostoevsky]

Never mind. Our bench: Amelia, Mexes, Antonini, Nocerino, Aquilani, Lopez, El Shaarawy

And we're off.

[dostoevsky]

At least this is going to be an open game. We're looking so shaky though in possession.

[Forza]

Goalkeeper error! Goal Cassano!!!

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