Do you believe Illuminati are real?

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Post by guest7 Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:10 am

Writers such as Mark Dice, David Icke, Texe Marrs, Ryan Burke, Jüri Lina and Morgan Gricar have argued that the Bavarian Illuminati survived, possibly to this day. Many of these theories propose that world events are being controlled and manipulated by a secret society calling itself the Illuminati. Conspiracy theorists have claimed that many notable people were or are members of the Illuminati. Presidents of the United States are a common target for such claims.

A key figure in the conspiracy theory movement, Myron Fagan, devoted his latter years to finding evidence that a variety of historical events from Waterloo, The French Revolution, President John F. Kennedy's assassination and an alleged communist plot to hasten the New World Order by infiltrating the Hollywood film industry, were all orchestrated by the Illuminati.

Do you believe Illuminati are real? Ali2
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Post by Vibe Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:22 am

A solid week of proper internet research would enlighten anyone...People don't see cause they don't wanna see.

When I first found out(from a random youtube clip) I didn't leave my room for around a week.I went to the core and read everything dating back to 1776 when the Illuminati were founded and went even before that reading the philosophy which they were founded on.Then I went deeper into satanism and it's symbolism to further understand the Illuminati presence in today's media.

Already with some basic knowledge I was pretty aware of the Illuminati,but now there's not a single doubt in my mind.The deeper you go the weirder it gets and it's harder to rationalize like most people do,so if you really wanna know you must read and read more.

Just stay away from these modern conspiracy theorists,they tend to grab on straws and make themselves look ridiculous and are easily discredited.Believing everything is just as dumb as believing nothing.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:21 am

Do you believe Illuminati are real? Tinfoil_hat

First of all: No.

Well, let me elaborate: I believe they did exist, maybe they still exist in some way, but certainly they don't control anything. And if they did, I wouldn't mind much, and here is why:

I studied them. I had to. I didn't do it because I was interested, or because I was afraid of them, or because they sound cool and mystifying.

I got a master's degree in Political Sciences from Heidelberg University, and we use the Illuminati to explain how German anti-nepotism and anti-corruption laws came about.

This ties into why they're not dangerous: The illuminati were founded as a club for secular intellectuals to help each other into positions of power. This was completely normal in Germany at the time. Catholics and Protestants helped each other out, trying to take control of large parts of German institutions. The different groups within the Catholic Church did so to get power within the Church. Families and political factions did so on the political landscape.

The one, defining, difference was this: The Illuminati at the time openly admitted that this was what they were doing, they wanted to control schools, universities, and administrations. Not to further worship of Satan, who they did not believe in, being secularists, but to further the ideals of the Enlightenment movement, you know, the post-renaissance movement that put logic and reason at the helm.

They got into kind of a slugfest with Bavarian nobilities, and later with the church, which saw them outlawed and branded as heretics, heathens, and sometimes even devil-worshippers. Much like it happened to many of the Freemasons and the Knights Templar. Don't believe in the Satanism BS, they hardly even believed in god, they certainly didn't give two shits about the devil.

They ultimately were outlawed on the grounds of them helping each other to positions of power, this lead to the first actual anti-corruption laws, which changed the German political landscape forever, since low-level bribery was much accepted at a time, and positions of power were almost always filled with trusted people from the inner circle of the superiors.

So in conclusion: They don't hold any power, and most certainly don't exist anymore.
If they did, I wouldn't worry about it, since they never had any ill intentions.

If you're really looking for world-spanning organizations trying to influence how the world works, don't go digging in the fog of history, just look at the Christian sects, look at Catholics, Born Agains, Mormons etc etc. - now they blatantly battle for control of anything they can grab, that's a bit more worrying to me. :X

That being said: still an interesting story.
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Post by che Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:52 am

apart from what viva said, please never mention the words "david icke" and "writer" in the same sentence
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Post by fatman123 Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:11 pm

i love a good conspiracy, i remember spending a good three or four days watching anoymus vids on the internet, some of which are really hard to find and heavily coded. Much like anonymus im sure aluminati has some substance but some of the stuff is just way too over the top

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Post by TalkingReckless Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:18 pm

i don't believe in the illuminati but i do believe there are people/families that have large stakes in what happens..... Families like the Rothschild who are worth in the Trillions..... are/were part of the european royalty, US government, Biggest Banking companies etc..
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:22 pm

Well that's just common knowledge though. There's tons of families like that, the Bushs, the Kennedys, House Saud etc. etc., but none of them are actually worth trillions.

Well except maybe the Saudis, they might be if they pulled an all-out cleptocracy.

And none of them have the influence that would make a conspiracy nut get a hard-on.
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Post by Lord Hades Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:28 pm

all my knowledge of illuminati is from dan brown lol
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:59 pm

If you go by faction, at least read Illuminatus! by Shea and Wilson, far more entertaining than Dan Brown.
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Post by Aensensen Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Well, I enjoyed reading your post Viva Thumbs up

It is true that most of these Illuminati stories spread because of ignorance or because people don't stop and think for a second.

First of all, Free Masons exist and are not a fable. These guys influenced so much (especially in America, USA) in terms of city plans, buildings and history it's amazing. Many of the first American presidents were Masons themselves. It is something most people already know, and I'm sure you can, if you go for a walk, see, even in your city, many Masonic signs and symbols. Masons were really important in founding the New World.

If you go online you can find tons of stuff about Masons being satanists. It is true that Free Masons deal with esoteric knowledge but it is ignorant to say they are per se satanists. Esoteric knowledge is huge and yes, some esoteric groups were found on black magic rituals and satanism, but Free Masonry, as much as I figured until now, are built on princips of Morale. Their history is amazing, and their knowledge even more. Many of the good books I read for research were written by them - one of the outstanding works that has no rival at all is "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages" by Manly Palmer Hall - who, you guessed it, is a Mason himself (if by any chance some of you would be so crazy to actually go read this book, I warn you, it's hard to read and some things Palmer say go beyond comprehendable or believable - but the book is a goldmine of information nonetheless). Now, I think that some Masons were - as in any other institution with such knowledge - in danger of abusing knowledge for their selfish goals. I figure it depends on what kind of person someone is, and if he developed his morale or not.

As for the Illuminati, I am not really familiar with their history but Viva wrote a good post. Even so, I would think that the abuse of power and knowledge is possible and not unimaginable. Did Illuminati cease to exist, or have they just disappeared - I do not know.

Some things call for us to reevaluate our opinions imo. Symbols used in todays show business are very occult (and please people, don't say it's just by accident), and there are loads of performers who use them. One of the most repeatable things today is the "all-seeing eye" symbol - some say this points to Illuminati. It is possible, but people need to think of the whole system then, not just the performer, in case they want to pin someone as an illuminati member - or slave (as some videos tend to say).

Whatever you think of the mentioned organizations, I think that some things are very interesting and need to be taken seriously. Now I don't know how you're gonna call them but I think that the political bunch in USA are very, very interesting. Watch this clip of how a little girl, doing some extra homework Razz found out that all American presidents (except for one) have a common ancestor (and it's not Homo Habilis). This alone give you plenty to think about power and politics.

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Post by Lord Hades Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:03 pm

well, i just read brown out of interest tbf, came to know o the illuminati from the book

will read your recommendation to know more definitely though
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Post by JAY-Z Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:41 pm

No, not really.
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Post by Aensensen Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:00 am

@JAY-Z wrote:No, not really.
JAY-Z says illuminati are not real
Do you believe Illuminati are real? Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdlj_FSTZg-tw3ZVYmzAdVvbmCtPlhKh4xvtLHTVJQwkCoofpj
:bow:
Just kiddin Razz

EDIT: Check this out. Can't hurt.
http://cc157.blogspot.com/2011/10/jay-z-illuminati-clothing-line.html
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Post by lenear1030 Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:57 am

i do, but i dont buy into the hype that people like jay z and other entertainers are affiliated in any way
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Post by Ganso Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:38 am

Viva,if they didn't believe in Satan then what's up with all the satanic symbolism?
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Post by Aensensen Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:25 am

@Ganso wrote:Viva,if they didn't believe in Satan then what's up with all the satanic symbolism?
Well, I believe Viva is simply talking about the historic group of people that was known as the Illuminati in Germany. Now, even if that group of individuals (their descendants) are not active anymore (which is possible but not necessarily probable) - the question still stands, yes. The original Illuminati may be "dead" but is there a possibility of their idea living on, or are these people flashing satanic symbols something else.

The possibility of Illuminati is not so science fiction as some might think. Why would it be so impossible to comprehend the idea of power hungry people forging the politics and economy in some countries. In the end, we all witness "petty" politicians who abuse their powers to gain financial benefits. It isn't that far off to imagine a much, much more complicated but organized groups who work on larger scales. I'm just saying this as in theory, this does not lead to any conclusions that Illuminati exist or don't exist.

Now as for the satanic symbols...

First of all, there is a clear psychological thesis saying that if you advertise "evil"/bad things - somehow you're doing it a favor. Example - guy commits suicide by jumping off a church tower, the image of the tower and the story are on all the front pages in newspapers - in the next few weeks, there are 3 more identical stories. Stories of people jumping of a church tower. Never before that first story have I heard of this happening in my city. Somehow, by making it a bigger deal than usual - "It's a suicide, but there's a church involved... ooooh, mystical..." - the press has inspired other suicidal people to do the same. Keeping such events in mind - it was very important, in Norway when that right wing terrorist massacred 85 at youth camp, to try to move along as soon as possible - not giving people the ability to read about this maniac more. Because by giving him the spotlight they would've done a huge mistake. Maybe somewhere a lunatic is lurking waiting for an inspiration. Norway managed the situation pretty well.

Anyway, I tried to explain this simply because now I'm gonna post some things that are about weird stuff and these "satanic" symbols. I hope you are of sound mind and morale so this won't have that much of a bang on you. Maybe I'm simply putting too much weight on this info, i don't know.

Let's review some of the things about Jay-Z. I chose him because he's well known to pretty much everyone. I would think that one of the main differences between successful people and the not-so-successful people is always maintaining focus on what you're doing. By doing so, these people get to know how their mind works and remove the unnecessary things from their lives. Simply by following this logic, and if you ever had a chance to observe someone truly successful - you can notice almost nothing they do is not well thought out first. Jay-Z is VERY successful, therefore, even if he only repeatedly makes a gesture - it makes you think why. Ofcourse, enthusiastic fans are the first that want to know absolutely everything about their idols so it's natural that they're the first ones to ask what does it mean. And the explanation can be really simple and non "mystical". Like for instance with Jay-Z's hand gesture - "It represents a diamond - aka rock. His apparel line is called Rocawear, which comes from his Rocafella records." See, all is normal. Yes but what we did is take one thing out of the whole story and examined just that one thing. The first answer that went along with our already premade world-view and opinions was logical enough to make us say - "that's it" (this is normal with people, we value our hard earned opinions and if there is a way to test new content with our pre-made opinions - we're happy to. We have the tendency to search for a fitting puzzle, instead of exploring something as totally new - giving a chance to the thought that maybe we used some puzzle where it didn't belong, or that our premade opinion of what the picture was about might be wrong). - This new "knowledge"/opinion in the mix with the relief (because we were worried, even if slightly and even if we are too proud to confess it to ourselves) makes most people quit research and go "battle"/argue with people who say Illuminati are real. They even make fun of these folks by portraying them as people who tell boogeyman stories - the truth is that people go arguing because they're still a bit scared but want to be relieved so they think they'll feel better if they make others think like they do (this is much like overenthusiastic "christians" who go around "spreading the word" all frustrated, thinking they'll embrace it better if they make others beleive in it. Thinking they're doing a good deed by preaching, getting extra good points from Jesus.) I don't think I'm going outside of basic psychology boundaries here. I've seen this "christian" act taking place many times during my childhood (was raised in a "religious" family). I'm not trying to say everyone goes through this exact process, but I think it's not too hard to understand that some people do.

- Now, let's get to it. There are secret brotherhoods, institutions, groups with secret knowledge - i.e. knowledge normal people usually don't have because it was obscured from them by either force or simply because they never delve with it. These esoteric, occult or whatever groups exist for education of new members or whatever. One of them is the "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" (google it). Aleister Crowley was a member. Now, The Golden Dawn is just one in the system of more schools, at least that's what Crowley wanted to do. Golden Dawn existed on it's own, but Crowley, after grasping the knowledge there went on to create two other systems/institutions - "Ordo Templi Orientalis" and the "A∴A∴". Crowley was the most influential man in western occultism, and many, many people read his books. Also, many performers in the music industry have been influenced by his works - and they don't hide it sometimes (Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Black Sabbath...). His most famous teaching is that of Thelema in which a new ethical code would be followed; "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".

Do you believe Illuminati are real? Thouwilt

Crowley got this Law from some alien entities which he called Aiwass. "The Book of Law" was dictated to him by Aiwass. Now, I, I personally think that the esoteric knowledge is huge and not per se bad, but some things are dark and come from black magic and lack of morale. For an experienced researcher, it is certain that Crowley dwelled in the dark arts.

Do you believe Illuminati are real? Crowley1
Crowley, wearing the eye symbol on his weird hat

Do you believe Illuminati are real? Post32931230909341we5
Do you believe Illuminati are real? Post32931230909232aq7
The Rocawear. The idea of Rockafeller being Illuminati member was here long before Jay-Z decided to do rap.

Do you believe Illuminati are real? Rocawear-t-shirt21
A well known fully acknowledged symbol of freemasonry

Anyway, I'm tired, it's late - I'll just trhrow some links for you to check. Not everything is absolutely correct, but it should give you plenty to think about (if you're into that).

http://cc157.blogspot.com/2011/10/jay-z-illuminati-clothing-line.html
http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/jay-zs-run-this-town-and-the-occult-connexions/
http://evilmusicindustry.com/

See, Jay-Z making a hand gesture - easily explainable through standard logic. Taking everything fishy into consideration - much, much tougher case. Let's be honest about one thing, almost 100% of modern music is pure crap, it isn't if you've never really learned to appreciate Bach for instance. When you place SO MUCH on music in your life, as it's normal today, then you're gonna be very sensitive if someone tries to change your opinion about one of your favourite "artists"/performers. Even if a person resorts to that last bastion of hope "I just listen to it because I like the music", or, "I just take out what I like and ignore the rest"... How can you ignore what bangs in your eardrums? You think it has absolutely no effect on you? Whatever the case may be, I hope you understand I just wanted to point to the things pointing to something bad actually happening.
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Post by milanfan7 Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:36 am

Excuse me for my ignorance,but what's the difference between free masons and illuminati? Da fuq is a free mason anyway?
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Post by nichabr Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:47 pm

Nope i don't think there are any Illuminati anymore but i do believe their are other groups who strive to advance their members to higher postions and such like in Trinidad alot of the Arab (Lebanese/Syrian) community openly help each other into certain goverment positions and most of them that are established even bring Syrian workers into the country without work permits or anything.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:38 pm

Ofcourse they exist, just look around you.


However it's really over the top topic among the youth, watching youtube vidoes doesn't tell you what you can see with your own eyes.

Saying that The main aim has always been Money. The economy. This is what Legend said basically.
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Post by Senor Penguin Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:01 pm

The Illuminati exists to the extent that there most certainly are people who are influential enough to pull the strings in various different ways. Either through nepotism, an abundance of cash or just hierarchical corruption (in which the two aforementioned factors probably play a role, too).

That there is a selected group consisting of few people who control massive events and carefully plan such events is quite a stretch and that they are a product of the original Bavarian Illuminati is an even bigger stretch. If that is indeed the truth, then is the Illuminati the worst kept 'secret' ever.

As for satanism, symbolism and such in the pop-industry: I see it as evidence of a bunch of people controlling just that. The pop-industry. Why they use such symbolism in particular? Well, perhaps they do have a fascination with satanism. There is also the shock factor to it. Many artists have made a living by being "eccentric", most recently Lady Gaga.

The blatant Illuminati/one-eyed symbolism that Jay-Z uses could merely be his fascination with the conspiracy itself. Or his fetish for power and wish to become a part of the Illuminati - whatever that is.

There is, however, a certain sinister thing about it though. A potential for sinister purposes at least. Because pop-artists do have an enormous media platform to work from and are able to become hugely successful and popular without much struggle. That means that they are able to influence people with the power they've obtained quite easily.

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Post by RealGunner Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:16 pm

Great post ^
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Post by zizzle Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:27 pm

the greatest form of deception is leading you to believe that you know that you're being decieved ( :vagi: ) and if there's someone benefiting from spreading stories about the devil worshiping elite it's the elite themselves.

It's no secret that todays world is ruled by a few powerful men, call them illuminati or whatever, these people exist, but separating truth from fiction is the challenge here,and as long this elite is precieved by some as an unholly faction the majority will call BS on the whole idea

if you dont see the prison bars you'll have the illusion of being free, similalrly if you keep chasing devil worshipers the true elite will keep controling you in ways you dont understand because you're too busy chasing the illusion that they put out for you in every movie and music video

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Post by JAY-Z Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:51 am

Niggas talking about me, while im in Paris. :coffee:
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:37 am

The tin-foil hat is strong in the last few posts in here. :coffee:
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Post by Senor Penguin Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:43 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:The tin-foil hat is strong in the last few posts in here. :coffee:
That's what they want you to think. Do you believe Illuminati are real? Cristianoronaldo415jose /troll

Anyway, anyone here read 1984 by Orwell? A lot of the Illuminati conspiracies seem to have taken stuff from his novel, which is quite a masterpiece. :bow:

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