Italian National Team Thread

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Post by zarola Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:25 am

Luca wrote:
zarola wrote:I would play Chiellini at LB :coffee:

You know, I had this same thought but then Italy would have really little offensively. Especially with abate on the right who doesn't really go forward as much as Balzaretti does
but every time balzaretti goes forward he screws up his crosses anyway

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Post by Luca Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:27 am

zarola wrote:
Luca wrote:
zarola wrote:I would play Chiellini at LB :coffee:

You know, I had this same thought but then Italy would have really little offensively. Especially with abate on the right who doesn't really go forward as much as Balzaretti does
but every time balzaretti goes forward he screws up his crosses anyway

Also true but at least he is offering something positive by making runs, and he was found so often by Pirlo and co.

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Post by S Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:13 pm

zarola wrote:I would play Chiellini at LB :coffee:

100 % agreed..Really hope Prandelli does this.

It would be really hard to leave out Bonucci who has been an absolute monster for Italy this tournament.

Besides i think Balzaretti would struggle to cope with Reus' pace and trickery who i think is Germany's most dangerous player along with Oezil.He does offer something going forward but we rarely saw any attacking move developing out of the wide areas,like you said Balzaretti's crosses werent upto scratch.

If i were Prandelli I would continue playing the same formation with Chiellini at LB Thumbs up
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Post by dostoevsky Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:18 pm

Luca wrote:
zarola wrote:I would play Chiellini at LB :coffee:

You know, I had this same thought but then Italy would have really little offensively. Especially with abate on the right who doesn't really go forward as much as Balzaretti does

I've spoken in favour of a balanced approach with our fullbacks in this tournament, however Maggio's suspension complicates our ability to respond to alterations on either side, though even then I would prefer to see Abate and Chiellini on the flanks for such a match, or Ogbonna, simply out of respect for Germany's fantastic right hand side.

It is not meant to be a move of fear, simply a recognition of our strengths and whilst Balzaretti has always been an admirable offensive force, he's simply not going to be capable of providing defensive stability, particularly not against such an intelligent and dynamic strike force. Against England, Balzaretti was made to look the fool on at least three separate occasions by Johnson and Milner, whilst other less critical mistakes also crept into his game at times.

Chiellini's the perfect fullback to have on a player such as Mueller, a player who has both technique and physique and who will be given no quarter by Giorgio, who performed admirably against Thomas in our last friendly against the Germans. Should Chiellini prove to be unavailable, then I would like to see Ogbonna at left back, though it is far from ideal to introduce such an inexperienced player into such a situation. He fits the mould of the flexible but tough defender we need on that side. It also seems highly unfair in my eyes to drop Bonucci who has been truly marvellous this tournament.

As for how our width and attack will suffer from such a move, neither Chiellini and Ogbonna can offer the thrust or composure of Balzaretti in attack, however both are highly competent on the ball both with their distribution and dribbling and though they don't have the same instincts in attack as Balzaretti, they shall not create a debilitating void in our ability to attack the Germans.

Montolivo should be persisted with in his role should we maintain the same formation, given Prandelli's conception of his system he is the best fit and his technique, distribution and shooting ability qualify him far above Thiago Motta.

Despite Diamanti's winning penalty and a cross that almost turned into a spectacular winning goal against England, I still dislike him and I'm far from convinced by his ability to produce some fine moments against a tiring team. As far as I'm concerned, Borini has been wasted during this tournament and would make a fine, late addition to our cause should we require a substitution to chase the match or push for an end to the game before extra time or penalties.

Also finally, fantastic work concerning the signatures Luca. Very Happy
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Post by S Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:20 pm

I dont think Mueller will play Dost.

Loew would probably go with Reus again which is the right choice from a German perspective imo.

But i agree with the rest of your post Thumbs up
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Post by dostoevsky Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:24 pm

Ah, thanks for the information, I've been on holiday so I completely missed Germany-Greece. It does change my thinking to an extent, however in either case, the more defensively solid fullback takes precedent in my eyes. If Milner was able to leave Balzaretti in his wake then Reus will have a field day.
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Post by juventus101 Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:58 pm

With Bonucci on such great form, but Barzagli and Chiellini aways being amazing, its gonna be tough to.decide how to lineup here. Either have to put Chiellini at leftback or play with 3 at the back again. First Chiellini needs to fully recover though.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:47 pm

I just remembered something. Injuries.

DDR is a doubt due to his recurring back strain.

Maggio is out definitely due to the yellow card.

Yet..apparently Abate is a large doubt for Germany. Which is incredibly bad news. Why? We don't have single natural RB now if he is out.

Ogbonna? Despite being two-footed. He is naturally a LB and CB yet never has played RB which is foreign to him.

My solution would OBVIOUSLY be the 3-5-2 yet we all know dear Cesare won't do that since he loves the 4-3-1-2.

I need all my fellow Milanisti...er...Italians to help me recover the status' of the ones named.

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Post by dostoevsky Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm

Who would fill the void on the right hand side of midfield in your 3-5-2 then Arquitecto?

Also I just remembered that Lahm has been playing on the left hand side for Germany, with Boateng on the right, as a correction to my above post.
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Post by Forza Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:20 pm

Arquitecto wrote:I just remembered something. Injuries.

DDR is a doubt due to his recurring back strain.

Maggio is out definitely due to the yellow card.

Yet..apparently Abate is a large doubt for Germany. Which is incredibly bad news. Why? We don't have single natural RB now if he is out.

Ogbonna? Despite being two-footed. He is naturally a LB and CB yet never has played RB which is foreign to him.

My solution would OBVIOUSLY be the 3-5-2 yet we all know dear Cesare won't do that since he loves the 4-3-1-2.

I need all my fellow Milanisti...er...Italians to help me recover the status' of the ones named.

MILAN - The Figc website, figc.it, has released news that today's training session in Wieliczka will start at 5pm local time at the Municipal Stadium in Krakow.

At 4pm the head doctor of the Azzurri, enrico Castellacci, will release information regarding the injuries to the players. The press conference will be held by two of the midfielders from the England game, Andrea Pirlo and Riccardo Montolivo.
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Post by II Capitano Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:36 pm

Germany's right hand side should be attacked as much as possible. Boateng, if he starts, has been the major weak link in defence, and it's an opportunity for us to take advantage of his poor awareness at right back.
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Post by Luca Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:35 am

Thanks dos, interesting post and I have to say I agree with the majority of what you're saying. I'm not sold on Diamanti either, but he did well in his role- not enough to warrant a start but I wouldn't mind seeing him off the bench at some point if required.

What scares me is if Abate is injured, with Maggio is suspended, is we might see Giaccherini as the RWB in a 3-5-2....
If a 4 man defense is chosen, you might even see Bonucci on the right (I wouldn't be surprised).

Italy really needs a fit DDR and Abate- this much I know for sure.

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Post by Tifoso Romanista Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:45 am

hmm i would put 4 3 2 1 with diamanti and giovinco supporting either Baloteli or Cassano but one difference from regular 4 3 2 1 that is then need to play closer to midfield kinda similar to classic Rm,Lm , and i would use Chiellini as a left back and bring in Dinatale for either of Giovinco or Diamanti if needed
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Post by dronte Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:41 pm

Giorgio Chiellini and Alessandro Diamanti could be thrown into the Italian starting XI for their Euro 2012 semi-final against Germany.

The Azzurri will take on the Germans tomorrow evening and boss Cesare Prandelli is pondering two changes to the team which beat England on penalties.

The first switch could come with the inclusion of Diamanti from the start in place of Antonio Cassano. The Bologna man, who came on as a substitute in Kiev on Sunday, would play behind Mario Balotelli.

The other change may be in defence given that Giorgio Chiellini has returned to full training after injury.

However, the centre-back could be fielded as a left-back in place of Palermo’s Federico Balzaretti as Prandelli may not want to break up the partnership of Andrea Barzagli and Leonardo Bonucci in the middle.

Milan right-back Ignazio Abate is expected to be fit, while Daniele De Rossi should make it as well even if Antonio Nocerino is on stand-by.

Italy possible: Buffon; Abate, Bonucci, Barzagli, Chiellini; Pirlo; Marchisio, De Rossi (Nocerino), Montolivo; Diamanti; Balotelli

-----------------------

Am I the only one who isn't impressed by Diamanti AT ALL? Seriously, other than scoring his penalty he did nothing that worth a note imo. I don't want to see him starting, not sure why Prandelli is so obsessed with him. When we played with 1 striker against England it kinda killed our attacking play.

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Post by :{Mr.Mustachio! Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:49 pm

Giovinco deserves to start more than Diamanti surely? hmm
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Post by Onyx Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:36 pm

What happen to the 3 at the back system?

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Post by Luca Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:04 am

Am I the only one who isn't impressed by Diamanti AT ALL? Seriously, other than scoring his penalty he did nothing that worth a note imo. I don't want to see him starting, not sure why Prandelli is so obsessed with him. When we played with 1 striker against England it kinda killed our attacking play.

That's a little harsh
It was him who played in the cross to Nocerino, only to have it ruled offside (I believe)
And he had one decent shot from distance

Agreed though, about playing one striker only, I'm not a fan. I like seeing Diamanti come off the bench if at all.

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Post by donttreadonred Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:19 am

mtfootball wrote:What happen to the 3 at the back system?
Injuries and mistakes.

The three at the back works when the wingers/wingbacks do their jobs. Giacherinnin lost Fabregas once in the first match; the result is a goal. Chiellini mistimes his jump;Mandzukic is free on the far side to punish them. One-off mistakes are more costly when made by defenders in a three at the back system, because there is less cover. Additionally, with Chiellini injured and Barzagli earlier in the tournament, I'm sure there are concerns about familiarity of the back three and wingbacks with the system.
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Post by ErPupone Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:38 am

I think we should go back to the 3-5-2 for this one. With the 4-3-1-2, I just see us being ripped apart, hopefully I'm wrong. I would go with this, given everyone is declared fit to play:

Buffon

Bonucci Chiellini Barzagli

Abate Marchisio Pirlo De Rossi Balzaretti

Diamanti

Balotelli


Nocerino in for De Rossi if he's out. I don't think Balotelli and Cassano should start together. Balotelli played 120 minutes on Sunday, while Cassano can't play a full 90 minutes. Also, with them together in a 3-5-2, I haven't really been impressed by the supply they've had. I would put Balotelli alone up front with Diamanti supporting him. I would also give Marchisio more freedom in going forward, against England he was understandably given the task to cover as much as possible. I also think this is the best way to stop Germany when they attack us. They definitely pose a bigger threat than England and, if we let our guard down for a split second in a 4-3-1-2, they'll make us pay. Now, having that 5 man backline with De Rossi right in front of them will limit their options, I think it would be the best way to keep Gomez (or Klose) quiet all game.

All in all, we can't afford even the slightest lapse in concentration, so for that reason I would definitely prefer Nocerino coming into the match over a fragile Montolivo. Also, having Cassano on the bench could prove to be very useful if we play our cards right.
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Post by dostoevsky Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:22 pm

The issue from one hand is that if Germany can't defeat us now, they probably never will. This is only true however if we throw absolutely everything we have against a talented, dynamic, deep and hungry squad. With less rest, injury concerns and an older squad with question marks over its fitness, our concern mustn't be to look at this as an excuse, it must strengthen our resolve to finish this match in 90 minutes. History's a trick of the mind, an insecurity we can use to our advantage, not something that will safeguard us.

With doubts over our ability to compete the longer the match goes on and with media mind games over history always lurking, it is imperative that we sow seeds of doubt through a positive approach to this match. This requires a balance between giving due respect to a formidable opponent and ensuring that we do not isolate our best options in attack. We can't win in 90 minutes if we don't score and our strengths currently lie in our possession, not our work off the ball. My concern for a stable line-up must also be balanced with the need to rotate the line-up out of concern for fatigue as well, however I am still confident that our 4-3-1-2 best suits our opponent, squad and need to support our attack. No player, no matter their ability, thrives in isolation and maintaining compact lines, providing as much support in attack as remains pragmatic and refusing to compromise over quality should remain our priorities. For this reason, I want to discuss just a few selections, as most of our team still chooses itself.

Cassano seems to be the main item of discussion before the match, particularly his possible replacement by Diamanti. Diamanti certainly has his moments, he's a hard working attacker who is comfortable drifting wide, is a highly competent set piece taker and can handle himself physically, however I object to the foundation of his selection predominantly resting upon these physical advantages over other alternatives within our squad. Giovinco's more potent in front of goal, more technically refined, has greater vision and essentially stands as the superior attacker in all but concerns for strength and durability. Borini and Di Natale, the remaining options might be objected to on the basis of the need for a dedicated second striker, however depending upon our system, their attributes as highly mobile forwards who are confident on the ball, if more for their own gain than that of others, shouldn't preclude their selection over the most average attacker in our squad. It's not Diamanti's fault, he's trying his best, however he's punching far above his weight in potentially lining up against our greatest European rival in the semi-final of an international tournament.

My preference remains for Cassano to start, however should Cassano's fitness be a serious question mark then I would save him for the second half as an impact substitute, choosing to start either Giovinco or Di Natale next to Balotelli in a 4-3-1-2. Should Prandelli choose to surprise Germany with a 3-5-2, I would start with Balotelli and Di Natale, with Borini arriving as a substitute for Toto in the second half.

The next issue I see is dependent upon the choice of formation, as the use of a 3-5-2 essentially eliminates this dilemma, however I shall address it on the assumption that this will arise. The use of either Montolivo or Motta in the position of trequartista. For greater defensive stability, the latter certainly provides greater security, however whilst I am usually far from averse to setting up to grind out a result, having just come off an exhausting quarter final and facing a far fitter opponent, we need to attempt to take the advantage and preferably early. Montolivo benefitted from a poor English effort, however he showed quickness of thought and deftness of touch in his last outing. Whilst consistency has remained a problem, even though Prandelli plays a far from conventional attacking midfielder, our emphasis in this position must be upon an ability to link the midfield and attack, to be quick in possession and to go for goal. Should fitness be an issue, I see Thiago Motta being fielded, however having not been used as regularly as the rest of the team, I personally believe that Montolivo should be fielded against the Germans. Should the 3-5-2 be used however, Montolivo has no use expect should Pirlo require replacement. In such a set-up, Motta and Nocerino should take precedent.

De Rossi's fitness may well again decide this debate for us, however the question marks over his availability have seen Nocerino offered as a strong change to start. I believe that Nocerino would have been an excellent option to face the English, however I am less enthusiastic about seeing his name on the team sheet against the Germans. The reasons for this lie in his most noticeable strengths and weaknesses. Nocerino is decent on the ball, however under a well organised team press, he will regularly lose possession and this stands as a significant threat, unlike against England. Nocerino provides endless energy and running, making him ideal to cover space and put pressure on those looking to pass the ball off in midfield, however in one-on-one situations his lack of pace and fierceness in the tackle significantly expose Nocerino. Such stands as a significant issue against the Germans, where he will need to not only protect Pirlo but attempt to shackle a dynamic and skilful German attack, unlike the task that would have been asked of him against the English. These concerns weigh most heavily should we field a 4-3-1-2, though in a 3-5-2 this might be less of a concern. Still though, whilst I would be content to see Nocerino arrive as a replacement for Marchisio if his constant use leads to fatigue in the semi-final, I would prefer Motta's use if De Rossi can not start for his greater defensive grit, positional stability and security in possession. Should De Rossi be removed for a substitute, Nocerino could potentially have use though to add energy and movement into the team as the match nears its conclusion.

Also as for your point about Bonucci as a RB should Abate be unavailable or have to come off through injury, has he played this position before as an emergency or am I imagining things? He could be a decent reserve, if not for the fact that we might potentially end up with four centre-backs on the field.

Abate will be fit and ready to destroy our enemies with his right foot of justice though :coffee:
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Post by Le Samourai Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:52 pm

Abate-Barzagli-Chiellini-Balrazetti
-Marchisio-Pirlo-De Rossi------
----------Cassano----------
----Balotelli----Di Natale-----
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Post by ErPupone Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:38 am

Screw it, play Borini from the start!
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Post by Luca Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:31 am

Italian National Team Thread - Page 12 Lolwat

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Post by ErPupone Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:35 am

:facepalm:

Ok, well maybe Balzaretti could cross better with his right than his left.
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Post by Luca Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:37 am

ErPupone wrote: :facepalm:

Ok, well maybe Balzaretti could cross better with his right than his left.

He's so one footed, I highly doubt this

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Post by dostoevsky Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:20 am

That was quite simply amazing and I'm incredibly pleased that Montolivo in particular truly repaid the faith shown in him, however this should serve to illustrate that Diamanti is well and truly out of his depth. Poor distribution which served to repeatedly put pressure back on our team when he lost the ball needlessly half a dozen times, slow and poor decision making which wasted opportunities to truly kill off the match and all this with superior options on the bench. A player with the vision of Giovinco writes the script, Diamanti reads and tries to follow along. We can't tolerate mediocrity against Spain.

Giovinco's lack of physicality would have mattered little in the counter-attacking situations that Diamanti found himself in often, being given the opportunity to use his trickery, pace and vision to open up an isolated backline, not breaking down combative and well stocked lines of defence. With Seba on the pitch, the match would have been 3-0 with twenty minutes to go and we all could have relaxed a lot earlier.

Pirlo, De Rossi, Montolivo and Balotelli were simply magnificent. Mario won countless freekicks using his imperious strength, finished clinically and showed true character on the big stage.
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