Barcelona-Ac Milan;Champions league's quarter final second leg.

Lex wrote:

Grande_Milano wrote:Exactly, an offence before the game. Whistle blows, players warned, corner retaken. Normal ref actions

The offence started before the play, continued on AFTER play resumed and ended in a foul. That's a penalty

thats not how it works
its when the offence occurs, not when it ends, the ref if he sees the incident, should call it when the play has first occurred

Here is an official referee's decision, if taking all the rules into account:
Nesta tugging Busquets: Since the ball was not in play at the time of the offence, Referee should stop play and give Nesta, either a warning or yellow card depending on the seriousness of the offence and allow the corner to be taken. Since this incident takes place before the Puyol tugging, this gets further precedence. Honestly, a real look into the referee's manual or rule book, would say that the shirt pulling would be an infringement worthy of a foul, since inside the box, would be a penalty only if the infringement takes place after the ball is kicked but since it happens before the play, it is up to the ref to decide what action to take and then the corner should be taken again

reason i know this is because i had a question like this incident in the analysis part of my exam,
and got it right with the exact explanation, 95% on that exam
btw in the exam they show you the video only once and you have to get it right, a similar one to this was one of the hardest questions and i was very lucky to notice the timing of the incidents

I Have Mono wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Ref sees Nesta with a handful of a Barca shirt...are we now saying, he should ignore what he sees and let play continue, even when Busquets hits the ground?

smh

This penalty was like a cop giving a guy a $5000 dollar ticket for going 76 mph in a 75 mph zone.

While all the cars that pass them while he's giving the guy the ticket are travelling at 80mph.

Nothing like that at all, poor anaolgy.

First of all, your trying to say Milan had worse happen them...when in fact, they had NOTHING happened to them. Before you waste your time and cry about Ibra.

A. None happened in the box
B. Anything outside the box was called a foul or called a dive, on the whole rightly so
C. None were anything like as blatant as Nesta, therefore making an decision that much harder.

Second, dont go over the speed limit and you wont get puninished..dont grab a shirt, you wont get punished.

You cant do something wrong and then cry that you got called for it..the best you can moan about is consistency, which there was none of.

How can you say that's is a poor analogy. It was spot on.
In California the speed limit on the freeway is 65 yet for 20 years everyone drives 75 yet the CHP never pull anyone over.
So if I'm going 75 and get pulled over you have every right to be pissed because the speed limit of 65 is rarely enforced.
There's this thing called Letter of the law and Spirit of the law. It can be applied to refereeing also.
This ref called the foul according to the Letter of the law which while not illegal is in the minority. While most other refs call fouls off spirit of the law.

If you were doing 75 you'd have every right to be pulled over, simply saying that 'because everyone else is doing it' is not legitimate. It is called appealing to popularity. Additionally, the police have great discretion- can every speeder be arrested? No.

This applies to referees just as well. Referees have great discretion, and more often than not they do make the correct decision.

The way to look at this penalty, look only at this play, not other plays, not other games, not anything else.
Look at the incident, look at the rules.

Is it a penalty?

That's all that matters in the end.

Ref should win the "Biggest retard in the world " award. Killed the game with his stupid decision.Im not saying Barca dont deserve to through but the ref just killed it.

I haven't logged into goallegacy in ages due to academic commitments, but this disgraceful shit just pushed me over the edge sign in and comment.

Same as Thimmy, I woke up this morning and remembered that this game would have been finished. I predicted that Barca would win 2-1 or 3-1, and that controversial (aka incorrect) calls would be made against Milan.

Surprise surprise, I log into this forum and see a few threads about outrageous calls. Just like Thimmy, my heart didn't skip a beat and my eyes didn't blink out of sync.

It's just become downright predictable that Barca gets dubious calls when shit genuinely gets tough. For the past 5 or 6 years, it's always Barca justifying this, explaining that, reasoning their way through this, arguing their way through that. It has NEVER been the opposite case. Never has Madrid, Inter, Chelsea, Arsenal and now Milan had to constantly justify incorrect calls going their way. Never has one particular team in the part half decade consistently had dubious calls go in their favour. You don't hear people talk about Arsenal and UEFA conspiracies do you? You don't listen to rumours about Milan cosying up with UEFA do you? You don't discuss about Chelsea and referee bribery do you? You don't see people talking about Inter cheating in the CL do you? It's always Barca.

If incorrect calls must occur due to legitimate referee errors, then Barca should get 50% of the wrong calls going against them. This is basic probability. But this is never the case, and it's not due to Barca fans taking a higher moral ground and not complaining. Human beings are still human beings. When shit blatantly doesn't go your way, you complain and vent your anger, unless, of course, the end result is still extremely beneficial for you. Club affiliations don't change human nature. In fact, Jiopsi's "Scandal in La Liga Part 243434" threads are just some examples. There are more.

People, in general, can handle defeats when they are comprehensively defeated. They might be angry and frustrated, but at least they know their being unreasonable and normal when their channeling their distress. But people cannot take dubious losses well. The questions of "what ifs", and 'what would have happened if" start to arise. This makes it exceptionally hard to gain closure. England NT fans can attest to that after Lampard's disallowed goal. They may have lost the overall game, but going into the locker room with a score of 2-2 changes the dynamics of the game completely. Sadly, FIFA and UEFA's incompetence couldn't let this happen.

Personally, I would rather lose the CL than win due to unfair circumstances.

Lastly, congratulations to Barca for playing a great game, kudos to Milan for giving a valiant effort, and two thumbs down for the ref for destroying the game.

I dont know why Barca fans are so stubborn ,the foul happend before the corner kick was kicked into the game.

punkfusion1992 wrote:Nesta tugging Busquets

"tugging" He looks like a drunk geezer at a strip club trying to get the dancer's top off



He's not even concerned about trying to position himself in front of Biscuits, he's just trying to stop Biccy reaching the ball.

Luca wrote:

I Have Mono wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Ref sees Nesta with a handful of a Barca shirt...are we now saying, he should ignore what he sees and let play continue, even when Busquets hits the ground?

smh

This penalty was like a cop giving a guy a $5000 dollar ticket for going 76 mph in a 75 mph zone.

While all the cars that pass them while he's giving the guy the ticket are travelling at 80mph.

Nothing like that at all, poor anaolgy.

First of all, your trying to say Milan had worse happen them...when in fact, they had NOTHING happened to them. Before you waste your time and cry about Ibra.

A. None happened in the box
B. Anything outside the box was called a foul or called a dive, on the whole rightly so
C. None were anything like as blatant as Nesta, therefore making an decision that much harder.

Second, dont go over the speed limit and you wont get puninished..dont grab a shirt, you wont get punished.

You cant do something wrong and then cry that you got called for it..the best you can moan about is consistency, which there was none of.

How can you say that's is a poor analogy. It was spot on.
In California the speed limit on the freeway is 65 yet for 20 years everyone drives 75 yet the CHP never pull anyone over.
So if I'm going 75 and get pulled over you have every right to be pissed because the speed limit of 65 is rarely enforced.
There's this thing called Letter of the law and Spirit of the law. It can be applied to refereeing also.
This ref called the foul according to the Letter of the law which while not illegal is in the minority. While most other refs call fouls off spirit of the law.

If you were doing 75 you'd have every right to be pulled over, simply saying that 'because everyone else is doing it' is not legitimate. It is called appealing to popularity. Additionally, the police have great discretion- can every speeder be arrested? No.

This applies to referees just as well. Referees have great discretion, and more often than not they do make the correct decision.

The way to look at this penalty, look only at this play, not other plays, not other games, not anything else.
Look at the incident, look at the rules.

Is it a penalty?

That's all that matters in the end.

Except it's not I'll go 75 because everyone else is. It's I'll go 75 because the police enforce the speed limit using spirit of the law.
The shirt tug is similar its not I'll pull his shirt because everyone else does it, it's I'll pull his shirt because the red uses discretion and never calls it(spirit of the law)

Except in this case the ref went by the letter of the law and gave a penalty. But like I said its not that he broke a rule or did something illegal but when 99% of refs don't make that call and he does Milan fans have every right to bitch about it.

red&blacklegion wrote:I dont know why Barca fans are so stubborn ,the foul happend before the corner kick was kicked into the game.

I guess it is normal. They go through and this Milan will be forgotten. I now understood how happy the Inter fan were when against all odd (bad referee decision and play with 10 men) they eliminate Barcelona.

Lex wrote:

punkfusion1992 wrote:Nesta tugging Busquets

"tugging" He looks like a drunk geezer at a strip club trying to get the dancer's top off



He's not even concerned about trying to position himself in front of Biscuits, he's just trying to stop Biccy reaching the ball.

its the same thing, you are arguing severity of the incident, im arguing the decision of the incident

Well, no other referee would have call this a penalty kick.

^ Busacca, Ovrebo

Kev wrote: two thumbs down for the ref for destroying the game.

Nesta was the one who fouled Messi for the first penalty and Nesta was the one shirt pulling Biscuit for the second penalty....

Sorry, how did the referee destroy the game again?

I Have Mono wrote:

Luca wrote:

I Have Mono wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Ref sees Nesta with a handful of a Barca shirt...are we now saying, he should ignore what he sees and let play continue, even when Busquets hits the ground?

smh

This penalty was like a cop giving a guy a $5000 dollar ticket for going 76 mph in a 75 mph zone.

While all the cars that pass them while he's giving the guy the ticket are travelling at 80mph.

Nothing like that at all, poor anaolgy.

First of all, your trying to say Milan had worse happen them...when in fact, they had NOTHING happened to them. Before you waste your time and cry about Ibra.

A. None happened in the box
B. Anything outside the box was called a foul or called a dive, on the whole rightly so
C. None were anything like as blatant as Nesta, therefore making an decision that much harder.

Second, dont go over the speed limit and you wont get puninished..dont grab a shirt, you wont get punished.

You cant do something wrong and then cry that you got called for it..the best you can moan about is consistency, which there was none of.

How can you say that's is a poor analogy. It was spot on.
In California the speed limit on the freeway is 65 yet for 20 years everyone drives 75 yet the CHP never pull anyone over.
So if I'm going 75 and get pulled over you have every right to be pissed because the speed limit of 65 is rarely enforced.
There's this thing called Letter of the law and Spirit of the law. It can be applied to refereeing also.
This ref called the foul according to the Letter of the law which while not illegal is in the minority. While most other refs call fouls off spirit of the law.

If you were doing 75 you'd have every right to be pulled over, simply saying that 'because everyone else is doing it' is not legitimate. It is called appealing to popularity. Additionally, the police have great discretion- can every speeder be arrested? No.

This applies to referees just as well. Referees have great discretion, and more often than not they do make the correct decision.

The way to look at this penalty, look only at this play, not other plays, not other games, not anything else.
Look at the incident, look at the rules.

Is it a penalty?

That's all that matters in the end.

Except it's not I'll go 75 because everyone else is. It's I'll go 75 because the police enforce the speed limit using spirit of the law.
The shirt tug is similar its not I'll pull his shirt because everyone else does it, it's I'll pull his shirt because the red uses discretion and never calls it(spirit of the law)

Except in this case the ref went by the letter of the law and gave a penalty. But like I said its not that he broke a rule or did something illegal but when 99% of refs don't make that call and he does Milan fans have every right to bitch about it.

Well, the next time you get pulled over for speeding. You tell the cop that everyone else was doing it. The next time you're in court, your defense should be everyone else was doing it.

Let me know how it turns out

The Verminator wrote:^ Busacca, Ovrebo

Don't forget Phil "I Saw You Fall So It Must Be A Penalty" Dowd

Lex wrote:

Kev wrote: two thumbs down for the ref for destroying the game.

Nesta was the one who fouled Messi for the first penalty and Nesta was the one shirt pulling Biscuit for the second penalty....

Sorry, how did the referee destroy the game again?

It was Antonini for the first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19VQaWmrESw

#77 is Antonini

[color=red]I think this question has been answered several times before /color]

My bad

Still, how was the game destroyed by the referee?

Lex wrote:My bad

Still, how was the game destroyed by the referee?

I will just answer it again. The second penalty and Robinho's chance that the ref called for handball which then ended up as a goal after it was deflected from Valdes.

Seppuku wrote:

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOl

That us all

So no blame for Nesta? Why was he holding on to Biscuit's shirt in the first place?

Lex wrote:So no blame for Nesta? Why was he holding on to Biscuit's shirt in the first place?

I agree what Nesta did was wrong but the referee should have warned him before the play not after it. Isnt this what happens in these situations?

Lex wrote:So no blame for Nesta? Why was he holding on to Biscuit's shirt in the first place?

In Italy, holding someone's shirt is a sign of endearment

Luca wrote:

I Have Mono wrote:

Luca wrote:

I Have Mono wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Ref sees Nesta with a handful of a Barca shirt...are we now saying, he should ignore what he sees and let play continue, even when Busquets hits the ground?

smh

This penalty was like a cop giving a guy a $5000 dollar ticket for going 76 mph in a 75 mph zone.

While all the cars that pass them while he's giving the guy the ticket are travelling at 80mph.

Nothing like that at all, poor anaolgy.

First of all, your trying to say Milan had worse happen them...when in fact, they had NOTHING happened to them. Before you waste your time and cry about Ibra.

A. None happened in the box
B. Anything outside the box was called a foul or called a dive, on the whole rightly so
C. None were anything like as blatant as Nesta, therefore making an decision that much harder.

Second, dont go over the speed limit and you wont get puninished..dont grab a shirt, you wont get punished.

You cant do something wrong and then cry that you got called for it..the best you can moan about is consistency, which there was none of.

How can you say that's is a poor analogy. It was spot on.
In California the speed limit on the freeway is 65 yet for 20 years everyone drives 75 yet the CHP never pull anyone over.
So if I'm going 75 and get pulled over you have every right to be pissed because the speed limit of 65 is rarely enforced.
There's this thing called Letter of the law and Spirit of the law. It can be applied to refereeing also.
This ref called the foul according to the Letter of the law which while not illegal is in the minority. While most other refs call fouls off spirit of the law.

If you were doing 75 you'd have every right to be pulled over, simply saying that 'because everyone else is doing it' is not legitimate. It is called appealing to popularity. Additionally, the police have great discretion- can every speeder be arrested? No.

This applies to referees just as well. Referees have great discretion, and more often than not they do make the correct decision.

The way to look at this penalty, look only at this play, not other plays, not other games, not anything else.
Look at the incident, look at the rules.

Is it a penalty?

That's all that matters in the end.

Except it's not I'll go 75 because everyone else is. It's I'll go 75 because the police enforce the speed limit using spirit of the law.
The shirt tug is similar its not I'll pull his shirt because everyone else does it, it's I'll pull his shirt because the red uses discretion and never calls it(spirit of the law)

Except in this case the ref went by the letter of the law and gave a penalty. But like I said its not that he broke a rule or did something illegal but when 99% of refs don't make that call and he does Milan fans have every right to bitch about it.

Well, the next time you get pulled over for speeding. You tell the cop that everyone else was doing it. The next time you're in court, your defense should be everyone else was doing it.

Let me know how it turns out

The judge would dismiss the ticket based on the history of generally not giving that ticket over the course of 20 years.
Where as in soccer there is no process to prevent bullshit like this.

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:

Lex wrote:So no blame for Nesta? Why was he holding on to Biscuit's shirt in the first place?

In Italy, holding someone's shirt is a sign of endearment

Haha, that was a good one but I think Nesta can find better people that Busquets, just saying

•MilanDevil• wrote: Isnt this what happens in these situations?

Well, no actually. The exact same thing happened in the PL a few weeks ago. Can't remember the teams, but it was highlighted on MOTD. Corner was being set up. camera zooms in on player A holding on to player B's shirt, preventing him from pulling away. Corner is taken, player B falls to the ground, penalty was awarded.

The only time the ref gets involved before a corner is if there's a lot of excessive shoving in the box, or if someone is obstructing the goalkeeper

Lex wrote:

•MilanDevil• wrote: Isnt this what happens in these situations?

Well, no actually. The exact same thing happened in the PL a few weeks ago. Can't remember the teams, but it was highlighted on MOTD. Corner was being set up. camera zooms in on player A holding on to player B's shirt, preventing him from pulling away. Corner is taken, player B falls to the ground, penalty was awarded.

The only time the ref gets involved before a corner is if there's a lot of excessive shoving in the box, or if someone is obstructing the goalkeeper

Then I guess the ref's decision in that game was not correct or blocked by players. In this case, the ref saw Nesta pulling Busquets shirt before the play and it was clearly before his eyes.

P.S. can you provide a video of the example that you put forward? Thanks in advance

Am i the only one who realized messi was offside on the 1st penalty?
2nd penalty was very soft and coincidentally right after we drew


Ibra:"It seems like Uefa wants a certain two teams in the Champions League final. Now I understand how Mourinho feels every time he comes to Camp Nou."