Picking an All-time World XI

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Post by Guest Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:29 pm

Barrettinator wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:Magic Square.Laughing

Anyway I think my team has a decent shot against everyone.As long as the full backs and the CM's choose their runs carefully and communicate well they have a chance

I'm skeptical about Maradona and Messi , I would honestly prefer Ozil there but I couldn't think of anyone so I let it be....

BTW Peles reaction to this thread thus far :vagi: ,

I'll switch him in for Ronaldo to realign the earth.

Pele eterno :bow:
You know, the reason I'm not all sold out on Pele's achievements was that the offside rule was not established when he played. He's one of the greatest talents ever, but you can't deny that a "no offside" era would certainly have helped his goals. Imagine how many goals Messi would score in present day if there was no offside rule.

WHAT?! lmfao

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Post by Guest Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:29 pm

Doc wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:Magic Square.Laughing

Anyway I think my team has a decent shot against everyone.As long as the full backs and the CM's choose their runs carefully and communicate well they have a chance

I'm skeptical about Maradona and Messi , I would honestly prefer Ozil there but I couldn't think of anyone so I let it be....

BTW Peles reaction to this thread thus far :vagi: ,

I'll switch him in for Ronaldo to realign the earth.

Pele eterno :bow:
You know, the reason I'm not all sold out on Pele's achievements was that the offside rule was not established when he played. He's one of the greatest talents ever, but you can't deny that a "no offside" era would certainly have helped his goals. Imagine how many goals Messi would score in present day if there was no offside rule.

Wasn't the offside rule implemented in the early 20th century (1925 to be exact)?

If you want to mental about it, it actually goes back even further than that

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Post by Doc Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:30 pm

sportsczy wrote:Yashin
Carlos Alberto Torres-Beckenbauer-Bobby Moore-Maldini
Cruyff-Di Stefano-Platini
Garrincha-Maradona-Pele

Yashin is a nobody, everyone knows that... :coffee:
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:31 pm

@ Sport Zidane single handedly outplayed the whole square lol.Since most defenses are concentrated, no matter how you line up on paper you have to move out to he wings because there's more space.

Spains team for example could be considered a square for example (especially for the 15 minutes where it was Fab-Cazorla-Villa-Torres ) for many games but that was never actually the case.

Kaka especially would have gravitated to the wings.
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Post by Doc Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:32 pm

Crimson wrote:
Doc wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:Magic Square.Laughing

Anyway I think my team has a decent shot against everyone.As long as the full backs and the CM's choose their runs carefully and communicate well they have a chance

I'm skeptical about Maradona and Messi , I would honestly prefer Ozil there but I couldn't think of anyone so I let it be....

BTW Peles reaction to this thread thus far :vagi: ,

I'll switch him in for Ronaldo to realign the earth.

Pele eterno :bow:
You know, the reason I'm not all sold out on Pele's achievements was that the offside rule was not established when he played. He's one of the greatest talents ever, but you can't deny that a "no offside" era would certainly have helped his goals. Imagine how many goals Messi would score in present day if there was no offside rule.

Wasn't the offside rule implemented in the early 20th century (1925 to be exact)?

If you want to mental about it, it actually goes back even further than that

Right...not sure about the date but I read it was mid 19th century where the offside rule was invented. Which begs the question what exactly the Chelsea fan meant by "no offside rule" for Pele's era. The rule was very much in place during the 60's...


Last edited by Doc on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:33 pm

Can you please fix your post up lol

And the rule was first developed in the late 1800's, googling could provide more answers but am too lazy

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Post by sportsczy Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:39 pm

Le Samourai wrote:@ Sport Zidane single handedly outplayed the whole square lol.Since most defenses are concentrated, no matter how you line up on paper you have to move out to he wings because there's more space.

Spains team for example could be considered a square for example (especially for the 15 minutes where it was Fab-Cazorla-Villa-Torres ) for many games but that was never actually the case.

Kaka especially would have gravitated to the wings.

But Brazil NT dominated almost everyone because they've always had the best attacking fullbacks. They basically overwhelm the flanks and force midfielders to help wide, which then opened the middle.

France in 1998 and 200§ had the perfect defenders. In 2006, you had Sagnol and Abidal with Malouda and Ribery tracking back like crazy. Vieira and Makelele covered anything that spilled over. In 1998, you had Thuram and Lizerazu with Djorkaeff and Henry tracking. Deschamps and Petit covered the spill over. Key was that everything was controlled and the middle never opened up. In 2006, Brazil got its first shot (shot; not shot on goal) in the 75th minute.
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Post by juventus101 Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:39 pm

All-Time XI:
--Kahn--
--Lahm-- --Cannavaro-- --Thuram-- --Maldini--
--Pirlo-- --Matthaus--
--Ronaldinho-- --Zidane-- --Baggio--
--Henry--

With a bench of: Buffon, Zanetti, Nesta, Terry, Zambrotta, Xavi, Davids, Messi, Gerrard, Del Piero, R9, and either CR7 or Lampard.

--

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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:39 pm

Crimson wrote:
jibers wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:
Doc wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:
Doc wrote:He played as a left sided attacking playmaker and an attacking midfielder. Dinho was never a central midfielder nor was he a right winger.
Err.....remind me where he played for Brazil?

Besides, the position I have him & Zidane is more of a CAM position, with just Makelele lying deep.

Dinho for Brasil played as an ACM......
2006 WC, Brazil used the "Magic Square" formation that had Ronaldo, Adriano, Kaka & Ronaldinho.

Key word being SQUARE.

I'll let you figure that out.

Dinho was on the left hand side in that square sir while Kaka was on the right.
Ah! My apologies. I just checked my team again. I thought I put Dinho on the left and Zidane on the right. I'm about to fix that. I see why you were having going bezerk LOL.

Don't lie now you have been caught out ffs. Just admit you didnt know what you were talking about.

Sad thing is the kids apparently 22.....

Really thought he was 12 judging by his replies....
Are you turning this whole thing personal??? smh...some people are just unbelievable.
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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:40 pm

juventus101 wrote:
All-Time XI:
--Kahn--
--Lahm-- --Cannavaro-- --Thuram-- --Maldini--
--Pirlo-- --Matthaus--
--Ronaldinho-- --Zidane-- --Baggio--
--Henry--

With a bench of: Buffon, Zanetti, Nesta, Terry, Zambrotta, Xavi, Davids, Messi, Gerrard, Del Piero, R9, and either CR7 or Lampard.

--

Solid!

Don't know why I left Henry out of my bench.

Still haven't seen anyone select Nedved though. At least for subs.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:18 pm

Doc wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Yashin
Carlos Alberto Torres-Beckenbauer-Bobby Moore-Maldini
Cruyff-Di Stefano-Platini
Garrincha-Maradona-Pele

Yashin is a nobody, everyone knows that... :coffee:

I don't plan to defend much with this lineup. Keeper is almost irrelevant :coffee:
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Post by VanDeezNuts Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:22 pm

buffon
cafu beckenbaur hierro maldini
rjikaard
platini cruyff
di stefano van basten puskas

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Post by Guest Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:24 pm

vanDEEZ wrote:
buffon
cafu beckenbaur hierro maldini
rjikaard
platini cruyff
di stefano van basten puskas

very nice team

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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:25 pm

vanDEEZ wrote:
buffon
cafu beckenbaur hierro maldini
rjikaard
platini cruyff
di stefano van basten puskas
All pretty direct, no-nonsense footballers. Me likes. Very Happy
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:45 pm

Zoff
Bergomi-Hierro-Scirea-Baresi-Maldini

--------- Neeskens-Pirri/Liedholm-----------

Cruyff /Rivera(AM) Gento

---Van Basten---


As you can see, not the all time best.

Zoff I took since GK doesn't really matter and plus Zoff is damn awesome..

5 man defence? Bergomi for Calcio historians was just insanely underrated and one of the greatest attacking fullbacks of all time and was defensive PERFECT if you watch him. Hierro since he is my hero in back for Espana who also possess world class attacking skill aside from his obvious defensive marvel. Scirea is the one playing defence and I'll be highly highly impressed if someone knows who this UNBELIEVABLY underrated libero actually was. Baresi moving back from his sweeper role into a CB role while Maldini in his LB role as preferably in his early stages where he was an attacking phenom.

The midfield is composed of Johan Neeskens who is a legendary CM who was known for his superb technical brilliance yet discipline to hold the midfield in also support to Cruyff. Pirri/Liedholm. Pirri playing his relentless CM role with his passing skill as the alternative is Liedholm who is by far one of the greatest passers of all time.

Then there is Cruyff who is supported by his partner in crime Neeskens playing a free role as he always did. Rivera who was just.....stellar in his pure technicality and vision. Gento plays an outside left role but providing his speed, tenacity and forward forrays in combination with Maldini who could just about combine with anyone.

Van Basten? The all round forward who found a solution to any problem as is essentially tailor made to combine with this exact type of set up.

The dual pivot looks suspect but if one knows the players I named in the "2" and how they essentially could function, then they would agree along with how Scirea essentially was known to forray forward to hold the midfield as well depending on the height of the midfield line.

Thoughts?



Last edited by Arquitecto on Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Dante Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:55 pm

Great lineup Arquitecto . That.defence :bow:

Also , nice to see Rivera there, he is way forgotten compared to other greats.

If i had to doubt something about your team , it would be the balance of it , but individuality and the great defence would make up for it , i guess.


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Post by The Franchise Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:04 pm

Scirea :bow:

Nowhere near talked about enough sweeper.

A real Italian cynicism (not in a negative sense) in that side Arq which old Dutch flair going further forward

How does it line up though, its a litle bit unclear because of how the lines are placed in the post.

52211 with an extra man on the left and space on the right to run into?
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Post by Be/\/ceCALI Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:09 pm

For those who picked Puskás :bow: :bow:

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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:14 pm

Two alternative teams.

Team I:

------------------------ Kahn
Sammer -- Beckenbauer -- Blanc -- Maldini
--------------- Matthäus -- Rijkaard
Cruyff ------------- Netzer --------- Maradona
-------------------- G. Müller

Bench: Buffon, Lahm, Cannavaro, Laudrup, Ballack, Overrat, R9
Captain: Beckenbauer

Goes for counter-attacking. The only one not expected to put in much defensive work is Maradona, anyone else will fall back, pressing doesn't usually start before the opposition crosses the midfield line, so we have more space to run into, that's also why Müller is the lone striker - I want a lethal finisher who won't waste a single chance, able to control and put away precision long balls by Matthäus or Rijkaard as well as being able to link up with the flexible short-pass game of Cruyff and Netzer, and having the mental quickness to feed Maradona with assists if he can't find a position to finish himself.

Many players in that team are excellent off the ball, while all of them are good enough on the ball to not waste possession, though the focus isn't keeping possession, every time this team gets to the ball it will instantly initiate an attack. Either by counter-attacking, or by crowding the box and trying to get through on individual brilliance and perfect short passing.

I actually prefer Ballack to Rijkaard now that I think about it, but it'd look too German, so I'll just leave it as it is.


Team 2:
------------------------- Schmeichel
-------- Cafu -------- Sammer ----- Lahm
--------------------- Beckenbauer
Cruyff ------------ Zidane --- Platini ----- Maradona
------------------- Messi ----- R9

Bench: Neuer, Maldini, Schweinsteiger, Xavi, Netzer, Pele, G. Müller
Captain: Cruyff

Gunning for total possession. The former sweeper Beckenbauer is employed as the only proper defensive midfielder, cleaning up anything that gets through the intense pressing by the Cruyff-led midfield focusing on getting the ball as far in the oppositions half as possible, Barca style, and then orchestrating attacks through Platini and Zidane, who will be fed by Beckenbauer and play off the attacking quartett of Cruyff, Maradona, R9 and Messi, who will often interchange position, in a light-version of total football. The back three consist of great defenders, with Sammer being the closest to a CB, albeit he played as a FB a lot. He's also the most physical defender, with this defense mostly relying on positioning and technique, and really needing the height of Sammer and Beckenbauer in set pieces, whcih is also why GKs like Schmeichel or Neuer are needed, as they will have to pluck the odd high cross out of the air.

Possession is never wasted and low risk is emphazised, if there isn't a clear path to creating a goal scoring opportunity, the ball is played back through the own lines, to maintain possession and tire out the opposing team. The incredible creativity of Cruyff, Platini and Zidane, backed by the Kaiser, should eventually grind through any defence, while the team as a whole won't really need it's defense to defend, the actual defending will take place in midfield, close to the opposition's box.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:21 pm

My only question mark is Maradona on the left.

He, like Messi, like going towards the goal with his strong foot. From the left, they either go away from goal or come in using their weaker right foot.

It feels a little akward.

Are you sure Cruyff wont throw a hissyfit being asked to run back to the laf way line to defend and then play on the counter attack?

Intresting teams none the less.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:28 pm

Dante13 wrote:Great lineup Arquitecto . That.defence :bow:

Also , nice to see Rivera there, he is way forgotten compared to other greats.

If i had to doubt something about your team , it would be the balance of it , but individuality and the great defence would make up for it , i guess.



Thanks Dante. Very Happy

Rivera? It pains me to see how he isn't spoken about on this forum.

As for your last comment, if taken on the more specified qualities of the individuals and how they usually combine, I'm sure you would fine how it would work.,

Thanks
The Franchise wrote:Scirea :bow:

Nowhere near talked about enough sweeper.

A real Italian cynicism (not in a negative sense) in that side Arq which old Dutch flair going further forward

How does it line up though, its a litle bit unclear because of how the lines are placed in the post.

52211 with an extra man on the left and space on the right to run into?

Agreed on Scirea, just astoundingly overlooked.

Sorry on the indistinct line-up as I'm poor with making formations on the free form forums.

Essentially it is a 5 man backline but with Scirea playing his libero role but since its Scirea, as you would probably know, depending on how the midfield line is and its security and height, he would move up to support the midfield while holding and even making his superb passes. So essentially the technical but defensively sound dual midfield of Pirri/Liedholm and Neeskens is covered.

I forgot to add that Cruyff/Rivera and not individual. Cruyff I added when I thought of Neeskens and their godly partnership while Rivera, who was less versatile than Cruyff, would essentially suit this line-up more based on the individual qualities and combinations. That I left to imagination as with Rivera is also capable of playing the indistinct Cruyff role.

Gento to provide his flank to flank support and a more free role given his defensive qualities along with how he was generally known to thrive in this type of system.

Van Basten as stated for the reasons above.

The backline would essentially provide the width while I'd like the rest to be narrow with more pressing yet specified focus on positional outputs as especially within the more central roles.

So essentially; around the formation on what you describe.

Yet the difference is there are many false roles implemented within it.

Sounds sketchy, but I'm only taking into account in consideration on how these players tended to combine with who, what type and what they thrived in.

In the end its very similar to the Ye Ye team of Real Madrid or Pozzo's Azzuri who had the same type of defence in games yet with pure flair up forward.




Last edited by Arquitecto on Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Franchise Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:33 pm

Yeah, makes sense. There is no need for fixed strict positions when we start choosing these calibre of players because to restrict them of such wouldnt get the best out of them.

If you want players with restricted roles, then your better off just picking players who do those (like Jibbers did with Busquets).

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Post by juventus101 Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:05 pm

Barrettinator wrote:
juventus101 wrote:
All-Time XI:
--Kahn--
--Lahm-- --Cannavaro-- --Thuram-- --Maldini--
--Pirlo-- --Matthaus--
--Ronaldinho-- --Zidane-- --Baggio--
--Henry--

With a bench of: Buffon, Zanetti, Nesta, Terry, Zambrotta, Xavi, Davids, Messi, Gerrard, Del Piero, R9, and either CR7 or Lampard.

--

Solid!

Don't know why I left Henry out of my bench.

Still haven't seen anyone select Nedved though. At least for subs.

Thanks.

Nedved I forgot about honestly. I thinkhe would compete with CR7 and Lampard for that last spot, and Nedved would be the favoritr of the 3 also.

Also, its worth mentioning that I only included players that I personallyhavewatched. I started watching soccer during the 94 World Cup.
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Post by McAgger Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:24 pm

Zealous wrote:
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Gerrard is the most complete footballer that has ever graced the beautiful game....Those of you that don't have him in your teams, your teams are a joke.

Matthaus >>>>>>>

Gerrard is more complete. Matthaus is a legend but he was only 5'8/5'9, his heading ability is nowhere near Gerrard's. It's your personal opinion and I respect that, but you can't give me any possible reasons that Matthaus is more complete than Gerrard.
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Post by Spooony Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:16 pm

Barrettinator wrote:
Magic Spray wrote:lololol busquets is an all time great now?
I had the same reaction, mate.
No he is a dirty *bleep* who can pass and defend better than most out there. I thought people will react more of the inclusion of Kevin Muscat. But seriously you can pitch any team against me but if attackers see Kevin Muscat, Claudio Gentile, The Butcher of Bilbao or Marco Materazzi coming for them they going to piss their pants and give up possession.
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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:27 pm

----------------casillas

-------Cafu Puyol Beckenbauer Maldini
-
-----------------Redond

------------Matthaus----Cruyff

-----Maradona----Hugo Sanchez-----Messi
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