England u21... still choking

+14
Dj.complain.alot
drakefyre
pdolson
Swanhends
The dizz
Jay29
Brigate Rossonere
Great Leader Sprucenuce
Abramovich
BeautifulGame
boss
fatman123
bloodless
teamanarchy
18 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

England u21... still choking Empty England u21... still choking

Post by teamanarchy Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:45 am

Hey guys, I'm back.
I've bben watching the u21 Euro's and along with the rest of you, as I would guess, I'm wondering how the talented English got eliminated so quickly...
So here's my theory...

Take the best national side in the world, at the moment, Spain
-Just about every team in la liga is dominated by spanjards, the only real exception being Real madrid, who have still a good number of spanjards starting. Barcelona is like 90% spanish, and the same can be said for Villareal, Valencia, Bilboa, etc.
- The same is true for most leagues around the world, with one obvious exception. England.

Take a look at England's national squad:
Vital partnerships, such as in the centre of midfield and defence are made up of players who don't ever play together with the exception of NT duty.

For these partnerships to work, communication needs to be like a second nature, which it is to partnerships such as Pique and Puyol, Xavi and Iniesta and many other such successful combinations. Can you imagine the Gerrards and Lampards having played together at club level and truly combining in the manners that we KNOW they could have. ENglish football would be a dominating force with the ammount of talent that has been put through the system over the past while.

So, my proposition is this: The Premier league is at fault for the failure of the National team(s)...
Foreign managers (Wenger comes specifically to mind) need to start investing in English talent [of which there is an abundance of] rather than showing alleigence to their own nations by investing in foreign stars (Wenger-Nasri, Henry, Clichy, Wiltord, Pires etc.; Benitez-Alonso, Luis Garcia, etc.)

And furthermore, the FA needs to start investing in training English managers, coaches etc. The premier league simply must have more managers of English origin, especially at the top tier of the league. Chelsea should be looking at hiring a young Englishman, rather than the hiddink's ancelotti's ranieri's and mourinho's

Comments?

teamanarchy
teamanarchy
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 999
Join date : 2011-06-15
Age : 32

https://www.facebook.com/#!/ks16152913

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by bloodless Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:03 am

failed logic...english top league had no mass foreign inducement until recently...they have been failing since forever...when was last time they won a trophy?

it's simple the style of football, its not continental

bloodless
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 592
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by fatman123 Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:08 am

teamanarchy wrote: Can you imagine the Gerrards and Lampards having played together at club level and truly combining in the manners that we KNOW they could have.

chelsea tried to make it happen, stevie even got one goal for chelsea!
fatman123
fatman123
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Corinthians
Posts : 9615
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by boss Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:12 am

Welcome back man Smile ....well,@topic ..
.....investing in foreign stars (Wenger-Nasri, Henry, Clichy, Wiltord, Pires etc.; Benitez-Alonso, Luis Garcia, etc.)
....i don't think so mate...just look @Swiss...ha ha haa..LOOOl...i kid man i kid..maybe ur right in that aspect...

boss
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 896
Join date : 2011-06-12

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by BeautifulGame Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:17 am

Here's a stat.

OptaJoe Opta Sports
61 - England played more unsuccessful long balls than any other team in the U21 European Championships group stage. Stymied.

Same old England.Whether its U-21 or Senior team nothing changes.Its just inbred.They should just accept they are a long ball team and play to their strengths with wingers.Atleast they will make some progress.

This pretending to be a passing team and not playing with any wingers will result in nothing apart from humiliation.
BeautifulGame
BeautifulGame
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4561
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Abramovich Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:54 am

Think more English players need to play in other leagues.
Abramovich
Abramovich
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Napoli
Posts : 6544
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:59 am

Hi TA......

As for the england u21's there's many reasons which i cant go into atm but the main reason the coaching staff does not have a clue what tactic's best suit the players, dont pick the best players and seem to think that bigger = better.

I am certain of this that if we had Xavi and Iniesta we would still play like Stoke.
Great Leader Sprucenuce
Great Leader Sprucenuce
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : PSG
Posts : 68989
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Brigate Rossonere Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:13 am

Imagine the knee jerky goal.com articles about Italian youth if this was Italy's u21's.
Brigate Rossonere
Brigate Rossonere
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Napoli
Posts : 2035
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://acmilan.com

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Jay29 Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:31 am

It's nothing as in depth as this. Simply put, the U21's failed due to inept management. Pearce failed to deply the right tactics and the right team for all three games and we paid for that

Jay29
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Sevilla
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by The dizz Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:40 am

bloodless wrote:failed logic...english top league had no mass foreign inducement until recently...they have been failing since forever...when was last time they won a trophy?

it's simple the style of football, its not continental

i was going to say the same thing, even before the mass influx of foreign players england were just as bad, dont blame the foreign players blame the english players for just not being good enough!!!!
The dizz
The dizz
Prospect
Prospect

Posts : 54
Join date : 2011-06-13

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Jay29 Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:47 am

So, my proposition is this: The Premier league is at fault for the failure of the National team(s)...
Foreign managers (Wenger comes specifically to mind) need to start investing in English talent [of which there is an abundance of] rather than showing alleigence to their own nations by investing in foreign stars (Wenger-Nasri, Henry, Clichy, Wiltord, Pires etc.; Benitez-Alonso, Luis Garcia, etc.)

To quote Wenger: "I buy based on quality, not on their passport".

Wenger doesn't buy foreign players because of alleigences or bias. He buys them because they're cheaper and better than English players. Likewise with Benitez and every other foreign manager in the league.

None of them are under any obligation to assist the national team in way, shape or form. There isn't an abundance of good English players. If there were, Wenger would have bought more.

Jay29
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Sevilla
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Swanhends Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:53 am

Brigate Rossonere wrote:Imagine the knee jerky goal.com articles about Italian youth if this was Italy's u21's.

Soooo true
Swanhends
Swanhends
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 8451
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by The dizz Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:54 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:
So, my proposition is this: The Premier league is at fault for the failure of the National team(s)...
Foreign managers (Wenger comes specifically to mind) need to start investing in English talent [of which there is an abundance of] rather than showing alleigence to their own nations by investing in foreign stars (Wenger-Nasri, Henry, Clichy, Wiltord, Pires etc.; Benitez-Alonso, Luis Garcia, etc.)

To quote Wenger: "I buy based on quality, not on their passport".

Wenger doesn't buy foreign players because of alleigences or bias. He buys them because they're cheaper and better than English players. Likewise with Benitez and every other foreign manager in the league.

None of them are under any obligation to assist the national team in way, shape or form. There isn't an abundance of good English players. If there were, Wenger would have bought more.


you sir, are completly right! if i knew how to put up ur rep i would lol cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
The dizz
The dizz
Prospect
Prospect

Posts : 54
Join date : 2011-06-13

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by pdolson Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:27 am

poor england. they have such high hopes, but everyone else knows they're not going to win anything. not in this lifetime anyway.

pdolson
Hot Prospect
Hot Prospect

Posts : 311
Join date : 2011-06-07

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by drakefyre Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:28 am

pdolson wrote:poor england. they have such high hopes, but everyone else knows they're not going to win anything. not in this lifetime anyway.

depends . your lifetime we talking about ? Razz
drakefyre
drakefyre
Hot Prospect
Hot Prospect

Posts : 319
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by pdolson Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:41 am

i'm not old, if thats what you mean. only 19.

pdolson
Hot Prospect
Hot Prospect

Posts : 311
Join date : 2011-06-07

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Dj.complain.alot Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:56 am

U suprise?? Realy?

Dj.complain.alot
Prospect
Prospect

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 17
Join date : 2011-06-20
Age : 40

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by aford92 Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:53 am

We failed because we are not good enough, it's a simple as that. The media and the people in this country need to realise that we, as a nation are not a good as we think we are. Look at the top nations like Spain, Brazil, Holland, Argentina, Germany e.t.c. I wouldn't bet on us to beat any of them. We are not on the same level as these teams, we are on par with teams like Russia and Croatia. The media hype up all of our players like Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard and make it look as if they are world beaters when they just aren't. Just look at some of the players who have played recently Bothroyd, Parker and Warnock. None of them would get near a good national team. The sooner this country realises that we aren't that good and concentrates on making us play proper football instead of hoofing the ball up the pitch or sprinting down the wings to cross it in the better. Get rid of all the big names that do nothing for the team and get in some people who can actually play.

Rant over. Wink
aford92
aford92
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : PSG
Posts : 935
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:56 am

TA is an excellent poster, The problem isnt in the league though its in the style and youth system.
Yuri Yukuv
Yuri Yukuv
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Chelsea
Posts : 1974
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 79

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by BeautifulGame Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:20 am

aford92 wrote:We failed because we are not good enough, it's a simple as that. The media and the people in this country need to realise that we, as a nation are not a good as we think we are. Look at the top nations like Spain, Brazil, Holland, Argentina, Germany e.t.c. I wouldn't bet on us to beat any of them. We are not on the same level as these teams, we are on par with teams like Russia and Croatia. The media hype up all of our players like Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard and make it look as if they are world beaters when they just aren't. Just look at some of the players who have played recently Bothroyd, Parker and Warnock. None of them would get near a good national team. The sooner this country realises that we aren't that good and concentrates on making us play proper football instead of hoofing the ball up the pitch or sprinting down the wings to cross it in the better. Get rid of all the big names that do nothing for the team and get in some people who can actually play.

Rant over. Wink

What guarentee is that the next generation will do any better than the likes of Lampard,Gerrard,Rooney and Terry.

Playing long ball is inbred with English players young or experienced.The best solution will be finding a manager who best suits the long ball tactic like Martin O'Neil and playing that effectively rather than trying to prove England can pass and move.

BeautifulGame
BeautifulGame
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4561
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by aford92 Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:28 am

BeautifulGame wrote:
What guarentee is that the next generation will do any better than the likes of Lampard,Gerrard,Rooney and Terry.

Playing long ball is inbred with English players young or experienced.The best solution will be finding a manager who best suits the long ball tactic like Martin O'Neil and playing that effectively rather than trying to prove England can pass and move.


There isn't a guarentee, from the looks of it we will be worse but why not start implementing proper football now? It is no coincidence that the best teams in the world that win everything play pass and move and that teams that play hoofball win nothing. If hoofball worked Stoke or Bolton would have won something by now.

It's not like our youngsters couldn't do it, it's just that they are not told to do it.

If we had

-----------------------Rodwell-----------------------
-------------Wilshere-------------Henderson---------
Sturridge-------------Rooney---------------Walcott

Why couldn't we play pass and move football?
aford92
aford92
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : PSG
Posts : 935
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by BeautifulGame Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:58 am

aford92 wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:
What guarentee is that the next generation will do any better than the likes of Lampard,Gerrard,Rooney and Terry.

Playing long ball is inbred with English players young or experienced.The best solution will be finding a manager who best suits the long ball tactic like Martin O'Neil and playing that effectively rather than trying to prove England can pass and move.


There isn't a guarentee, from the looks of it we will be worse but why not start implementing proper football now? It is no coincidence that the best teams in the world that win everything play pass and move and that teams that play hoofball win nothing. If hoofball worked Stoke or Bolton would have won something by now.

It's not like our youngsters couldn't do it, it's just that they are not told to do it.

If we had

-----------------------Rodwell-----------------------
-------------Wilshere-------------Henderson---------
Sturridge-------------Rooney---------------Walcott

Why couldn't we play pass and move football?

Pass and move wont work for England because they dont have players who can keep the ball under pressure.How many of these players can keep the ball under pressure like the Spanish or German players.None of them maybe Wilshere with experience but i havent seen anything in the likes of walcott or Rooney or Rodwell to suggest they are capable of that.I havent seen much of Sturridge or Henderson to suggest about them but i very much doubt they can either.

Best teams play because they have the players to do it.England is neither one of the best teams nor do they have players who can play that way.Ofcourse England are not suddenly going to win world cup or Euros playing hoofball but will atleast get better results than now.

Bolton or Stoke may not win but Villa always achieve decent results.Who knows England may even win like Greece
BeautifulGame
BeautifulGame
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4561
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by aford92 Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:30 am

BeautifulGame wrote:
Pass and move wont work for England because they dont have players who can keep the ball under pressure.How many of these players can keep the ball under pressure like the Spanish or German players.None of them maybe Wilshere with experience but i havent seen anything in the likes of walcott or Rooney or Rodwell to suggest they are capable of that. I havent seen much of Sturridge or Henderson to suggest about them but i very much doubt they can either.

Best teams play because they have the players to do it.England is neither one of the best teams nor do they have players who can play that way.Ofcourse England are not suddenly going to win world cup or Euros playing hoofball but will atleast get better results than now.

Bolton or Stoke may not win but Villa always achieve decent results.Who knows England may even win like Greece

Yes but the Spain players didn't just magically learn how to play pass and move and stay cool under pressure, it was taught to them.
aford92
aford92
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : PSG
Posts : 935
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Jay29 Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:48 am

Pass and move wont work for England because they dont have players who can keep the ball under pressure.How many of these players can keep the ball under pressure like the Spanish or German players.None of them maybe Wilshere with experience but i havent seen anything in the likes of walcott or Rooney or Rodwell to suggest they are capable of that.I havent seen much of Sturridge or Henderson to suggest about them but i very much doubt they can either.

With expereince? I suggest watching Wilshere more closely because keeping the ball under pressure is what he does best. It's one of the main reasons why Capello calls him a leader in midfield and is trying to build his team around him.

I think you're underestimating the technical ability of some of these players. Rooney and Sturridge both have outstanding technique and can keep the ball under pressure. Ashley Young is another who can.

One key component missing from this set-up is movement off the ball, not technical ability. Our midfielders are far too static; they don't drop deep (except for Wilshere) and they don't break forward to join the attack (except for Gerrard). We'll bemoan out lack of technical ability, but we can't ignore the lack of tactical knowledge either. Fortunately, this is something that can be coached at youth level and if things change, we'll see a new breed of midfielders.


Jay29
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Sevilla
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by awalezelin Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:17 pm

why i'm surprise? Shocked

Crying or Very sad Very Happy Crying or Very sad Very Happy Crying or Very sad Very Happy
awalezelin
awalezelin
Banned (Permanent)

Posts : 486
Join date : 2011-06-07

Back to top Go down

England u21... still choking Empty Re: England u21... still choking

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum