The case of Aaron Ramsey

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Post by Highburied Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:51 am

I dont doubt his talent but he failed to perform in playmaking role.

Hes been very frustrating lately.

But, I think Arsene Wenger is NOT playing him in his natural position, which is deeper in midfield IMO... His performance vs Olympiakos sums it up his potential in central midfield.

Aaron Ramsey is no CESC...

I think the mistake from Wenger is keeping the cesc role still.

What you think of Ramsey as a player and his potential and recent performances?
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Post by The Verminator Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:29 am

relax HB, relax champ. Remember we are all Arsenal fans man. We should all try and stick together bruv. I think Ali just didn't see the "I dont doubt his talent " part and thought of this as a knee jerk thread. Wink

I dunno if he really should be played deeper as this would mean putting Arteta in the advanced role. I haven't watched enough of him in his Everton days to know if he's played there before, and he usually plays in a deeper role for us from what i've seen. ( i don't analyse too much during games, only after them...)



btw. Mind posting the difference between the Cesc role and a normal AM role?
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Post by REWB Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:33 am

@ali why? what is wrong with what highburied is saying? i dont get it. i agree ramsey is better in the CM role ATM. btw was the olympiakos game pre or post his injury?
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Post by djoe26 Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:38 am

The reason i belive Ali neg rep you is because that this has been already discussed plenty of times like these:

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t15461-ramsey

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t14098-real-aaron-ramsey-pls-stand-up

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Post by REWB Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:41 am

all those were bashing kneejerk threads, this thread deserves constructive opinions on what position ramsey can be best played at. no need for neg rep.
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Post by Highburied Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:45 am

As my last question is:

What you think of Ramsey as a player and his potential and recent performances?

Arsenal Section has always been the best and lets keep it that way.

And its the reason why Im here... but these kind of 'SIGHS' and Neg reps will not help anyone.
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Post by REWB Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:51 am

know what i think, this season ramsey should have had a season like sahin is currently having with Madrid, so that he can come back to form without any pressure and just train quietly with the team and play some reserve matches. But because wilshere got injured we had to rush him in. this has not helped him. Fact is rosicky was an improvement to him against blackburn and i hope rosicky plays against sunderland. ramsey imo needs another pre season to gain his true form back.
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Post by Highburied Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:06 am

Jack Wilshere can easilly play with Aaron Ramsey in the same lineup.

I think we should get rid of 4-2-3-1 formation and start with either a different one where majority of players can play naturally or 4-3-3.

Right now, there is a Cesc role where our wingers dont have that luxury to move freely in attacking area but instead Aaron Ramsey is free to operate anywhere he wants.

The reason why we dont score enough goals is the boring instructions to wingers to stay wide most of the time.

Aaron Ramsey had too much pressure to carry his midfield to attack so right now we only have the team to play for RVP who seems to like that position.

If Wenger changes tactics to 4-3-3:

Central midfield would be more disciplined and there will be a free role somewhere in attack and not in midfield.

Alex Song will stay as defensive midfielder all the time, allowing Ramsey and Wilshere to have more freedom but they would communicate with eavch other when one goes forward, the other stays back depending on the result.

Wingers would enjoy this formation even more because they dont have to track back all the time having central midfielders watching for fullbacks sometimes.

So yeah, an attacking midfielder is not always an attacking midfielder when someone else has the free role.

I think Wenger should do something about it because lately, we have become less effective since Cecs is gone.

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Post by RealGunner Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:02 pm

Pre injury he was playing really well as a player who made great runs from the midfield and scored goals.

but now he looks nothing like a CAM, agree with u that wenger should be easy on him in terms of playing the cesc role. If only wilshere was fit
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Post by lenear1030 Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:41 pm

im not confident in wilshere in the 'cesc role' either. i want him playing that box to box game.

ramesy will get his game together. stop doing the tricks, have better awareness and being more precise are the things he needs to do be really good
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Post by Raptorgunner Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:42 pm

We need Hazard.
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Post by Sri Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:04 pm

My 2 cents : We need to stop thinking of it as a "Cesc role" + 2 deep mids midfield.

This is a 3 man midfield with Song predominantly as a play breaker who covers for the full backs and also makes forward runs. (Ref: AW on Song recently). The other deep midfielder watches Song's back and keeps things ticking in midfield (Arteta/Wilshere). The "AM", what we call "Cesc role" is supposed to do the same job further up the field and create chances, defend higher up and make the midfield runs which help the strikers/wingers with an extra man in the opposite box.

Fabregas, imo, was pathetic at defending higher up. He shines at creating chances and chipping in with the odd goals.

What we should look to have perspicuity over is if we see Ramsey as a SS or a AM. That makes a difference. Arshavin would make an average AM but a awesome SS.

Forgive me if I confused you more than I helped resolve the definition of these roles. Smile

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Post by Jay29 Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:38 pm

Ramsey is neither an AM or SS, for me, though that's not to say he can't one day become a good AM.

Right now, though, I think the one key factor in his performanes has been pressure. There is a lot of pressure on him to create for the side and fulfill his potential quickly and because he is such a determined character he will try to meet these expectations as best he can. He won't shy away from it all, which is something we have to admire about him regardless of how effective he is.

However, in his efforts to impress I believe he's simply trying to do too much. I've said before, sometimes he tries to do a complex thing when a simple thing would suffice. I applaud the creativity and maybe one day it'll start working more regularly but I think he needs to keep it simple more often.

To put it another way, the weight of expectation is hindering his ability to make the correct decisions on the pitch. That's the main reason why I think Wilshere would excel in this role: his decision making under any pressure is top notch.

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Post by Sri Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:53 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Ramsey is neither an AM or SS, for me, though that's not to say he can't one day become a good AM.

Right now, though, I think the one key factor in his performanes has been pressure. There is a lot of pressure on him to create for the side and fulfill his potential quickly and because he is such a determined character he will try to meet these expectations as best he can. He won't shy away from it all, which is something we have to admire about him regardless of how effective he is.

However, in his efforts to impress I believe he's simply trying to do too much. I've said before, sometimes he tries to do a complex thing when a simple thing would suffice. I applaud the creativity and maybe one day it'll start working more regularly but I think he needs to keep it simple more often.

To put it another way, the weight of expectation is hindering his ability to make the correct decisions on the pitch. That's the main reason why I think Wilshere would excel in this role: his decision making under any pressure is top notch.

^^ I had pointed out this very thing in my post on what I believe is wrong with us, a couple of weeks back. Can't agree more.

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Post by djoe26 Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:05 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Ramsey is neither an AM or SS, for me, though that's not to say he can't one day become a good AM.

Right now, though, I think the one key factor in his performanes has been pressure. There is a lot of pressure on him to create for the side and fulfill his potential quickly and because he is such a determined character he will try to meet these expectations as best he can. He won't shy away from it all, which is something we have to admire about him regardless of how effective he is.

However, in his efforts to impress I believe he's simply trying to do too much. I've said before, sometimes he tries to do a complex thing when a simple thing would suffice. I applaud the creativity and maybe one day it'll start working more regularly but I think he needs to keep it simple more often.

To put it another way, the weight of expectation is hindering his ability to make the correct decisions on the pitch. That's the main reason why I think Wilshere would excel in this role: his decision making under any pressure is top notch.
Thumbs up

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Post by RealGunner Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:52 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Ramsey is neither an AM or SS, for me, though that's not to say he can't one day become a good AM.

Right now, though, I think the one key factor in his performanes has been pressure. There is a lot of pressure on him to create for the side and fulfill his potential quickly and because he is such a determined character he will try to meet these expectations as best he can. He won't shy away from it all, which is something we have to admire about him regardless of how effective he is.

However, in his efforts to impress I believe he's simply trying to do too much. I've said before, sometimes he tries to do a complex thing when a simple thing would suffice. I applaud the creativity and maybe one day it'll start working more regularly but I think he needs to keep it simple more often.

To put it another way, the weight of expectation is hindering his ability to make the correct decisions on the pitch. That's the main reason why I think Wilshere would excel in this role: his decision making under any pressure is top notch.

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Post by julias Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:20 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Ramsey is neither an AM or SS, for me, though that's not to say he can't one day become a good AM.

Right now, though, I think the one key factor in his performanes has been pressure. There is a lot of pressure on him to create for the side and fulfill his potential quickly and because he is such a determined character he will try to meet these expectations as best he can. He won't shy away from it all, which is something we have to admire about him regardless of how effective he is.

However, in his efforts to impress I believe he's simply trying to do too much. I've said before, sometimes he tries to do a complex thing when a simple thing would suffice. I applaud the creativity and maybe one day it'll start working more regularly but I think he needs to keep it simple more often.

To put it another way, the weight of expectation is hindering his ability to make the correct decisions on the pitch. That's the main reason why I think Wilshere would excel in this role: his decision making under any pressure is top notch.

massively agree

I fear however that Wilshere will only play maybe the last game of the season or something, basically do a Vermaelen
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Post by Emaharg Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:37 pm

Ramsey for me his natural position is a sort of a deep-lying player maker in my opinion he has good passing range, decent tackler and high work rate. To me he looks like he is trying to force something to happen, when he just needs to concentrate on his strengths. I think a rest will do him good and once he sees we can win without him hopefully he won't play like he is under pressure.

One thing we all need to remember is he is still a youngster, while he does have a lot of experience he won't get near his peak for another 4/5 years.
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Post by Jay29 Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:45 pm

I fear however that Wilshere will only play maybe the last game of the season or something, basically do a Vermaelen

It'll probably be just as well that Wilshere doesn't play again this season, as in all likelihood if he did come back he wouldn't be at his best.

For the time being, we probably should look to use Rosicky more often so we can give Ramsey more rest.

Next season, when Wilshere returns I think it'll really help Ramsey. A lot of the expectation and pressure on Ramsey will transfer over onto Wilshere, so Ramsey may be able to put in better performances.

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Post by RealGunner Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:55 pm

Diaby is back in 2 weeks as well







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Post by Sri Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:57 pm

RealGunner wrote:Diaby is back in 2 weeks as well








Wow. Your belief in that guy - :bow:

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Post by djoe26 Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:32 pm

RealGunner wrote:Diaby is back in 2 weeks as well


From where did you get that? he is always weeks away.
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Post by Sushi Master Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:31 am

I think Ramsey is having an identity crisis. He was first deployed as a more energetic, box-to-box type midfielder without too much pressure. Cesc was in charge of playmaking and tempo setting, Song the defensive duties, along with players such as Arshavin and Nasri all being creative and in form. It was a different tactical setup and in which he was not pressured at all, as Jay stated. It was also a more talented team, bar defense.

Compare our players now: Song while a better player, is still the main defensive anchor. Arteta is deployed very deep, focused more on possession and works very hard defensively (another underrated Arteta quality) even though it's not his strength. Walcott starts 90% of the time, and he's not a creative player but someone who depends on creativity to perform. Arshavin is a shadow of himself, and Gervinho is also a very direct player who's maybe missing a little end product. AOC is still raw.

This leaves Ramsey with pretty much most of the creative responsibility. It was obviously way too much for him. I could have seen Wenger say to him, "you are very talented. You have the potential to be like Cesc" and him believing it and trying to be like Cesc, when he's obviously faaaaaar way off. All those flicks, tricks and touches too many just scream of Cesc wannabe to me. I agree with everyone that says he needs to do the simple stuff well, and then maybe he can move on to more flashy moves. His through balls are very decent, but his overall short passing, decision making and goal threat are below par.

I can see him become a good player, but mostly in a deeper role where he has more time to think. The role Arteta has right now.
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Post by Emaharg Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:32 am

Think about the past few matches the majority of creativity has come from out wide, when Gervinho is back and Sagna+Santos fit the midfield will have little pressure to create.
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Post by Ali Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:52 am

I did neg, but how did you know? Razz Did I post and say so ?
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