Re: Is Sergio Busquets world class?

by jibers Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:15 pm

Long story short, bus quest is too good to be called a defensive mf.

by Albiceleste Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:27 pm

jibers wrote:LM, what exactly do you mean by WC? and what position? CB or DLP? Using the word defensive MF for busquets is like calling Vidic a ball playing CB. Busquets is Guardiolas heir and he is a deep lying playmaker. He is NOT a defensive MF anchorman ala Makelele. He is probably up there with the best deep lying playmakers. Would say he is slightly below Xabi in somethings, only because he gets far more protection. Pirlo is the standard in that position.

I was asking by your standards, if you consider him to be WC. Also that comparison with Vidic is irrelevant because I wasn't talking about his role but his position on paper, not on the pitch, and that post wasn't really that serious anyway, but some took it that way (izzy26 got butthurt Laughing

).

by izzy Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:09 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:It's called sleep you tool
Why are you so obsessed with me? Just *bleep* off. I find it odd that this isn't the first second or third time I've had to tell you this.

Lionel Messi wrote:I was asking by your standards, if you consider him to be WC. Also that comparison with Vidic is irrelevant because I wasn't talking about his role but his position on paper, not on the pitch, and that post wasn't really that serious anyway, but some took it that way (izzy26 got butthurt ).

Yes, I'm butthurt. Laughing

by Emaharg Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:39 pm

He works in Barcelona since they get the ball mostly from interceptions due to the team pressuring he reads the game well, but I don't think his all around play makes him World Class.

by Mr_Puyol Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:44 pm

The Franchise wrote:Still trying to figure out how diving plays a role in judging him.

I am seeing a little of, "I hate him, he dives, so no"

Like diving has a negative impact on your play.

Anyway, I dont know about world class and all that. What I do know is, he plays for us and plays in all important games and therefore plays against the best of the best. When you play against elite opponants all the time and your consistently outplaying your opponant I dont see how you cant be one of the best?

He cant tackle? Cant win balls?

He holds the CL record for most balls won last time I checked...so someone explain that?

I think the only reason people claim he cant do those things are based on his apperance and of course hateration rather then whats actually happening.

I just can't get over his diving.Am I the only barca fan that hates it when he starts rolling around and faking.If he would man up I would like him,until then he's just a bitch to me.

by The Franchise Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:53 am

Yes, I dont like it. But it doesnt make him any better or worse a player.

by buddytaller Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:21 am

Busquets is probably the most overrated midfielder in the world, he's not an exeptional passer, tackler, shooter, in fact the only exceptional aspect of his game is his diving, so no, for me he's perfect in the Barcelona system where, he basically gives 1 meter square passes, and scavenges loose balls lost after other players have pressed the opposition player, but he's surely not world class in my books.

by Pedram Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:44 am

He'd be world class in a possession-based side but he doesn't have the speed to cope with fast and physical players.

by Swanhends Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:50 am

buddytaller wrote:Busquets is probably the most overrated midfielder in the world, he's not an exeptional passer tackler, shooter, in fact the only exceptional aspect of his game is his diving, so no, for me he's perfect in the Barcelona system where, he basically gives 1 meter square passes, and scavenges loose balls lost after other players have pressed the opposition player, but he's surely not world class in my books.

Stopped reading there :facepalm:

by Omniscient Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:57 am

Busquets' list of notable skills:

-Diving
-Passing to targets under 15 feet away
-Simulating injury
-Recovering the ball off someone being pressured by 2-3 Barca players
-Face clutching
-Tying his shoelaces
-Getting opposing players sent off

That's about it.

by jibers Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:58 am

buddytaller wrote:Busquets is probably the most overrated midfielder in the world, he's not an exeptional passer, tackler, shooter, in fact the only exceptional aspect of his game is his diving, so no, for me he's perfect in the Barcelona system where, he basically gives 1 meter square passes, and scavenges loose balls lost after other players have pressed the opposition player, but he's surely not world class in my books.

He is one of the best short passers in Europe by a mile. Only people I would put above him in that aspect are Xavi and Iniesta. You can't be in Barcelona's MF and not be a good passer. And Yes Yaya Toure is arguably the best short passer in the premiership by a mile, whoch says a lot about the standard of Barcelona, where a supposedly defensive MF can go to a different league and look like Xavi on the ball.

by Albiceleste Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:58 am

bhends wrote:
buddytaller wrote:Busquets is probably the most overrated midfielder in the world, he's not an exeptional passer tackler, shooter, in fact the only exceptional aspect of his game is his diving, so no, for me he's perfect in the Barcelona system where, he basically gives 1 meter square passes, and scavenges loose balls lost after other players have pressed the opposition player, but he's surely not world class in my books.

Stopped reading there

The delusion is hilarious at times :lol!:

by FalcaoPunch Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:08 am

He plays well in his positions.
But calling him world class? Please.

That's going overboard.

by jibers Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:10 am

jibers wrote:Don't really agree with the term WC. I would say a great player is a player that

A) Has the God given ability
B) Is able to Maximise that ability and do well for the team
C) (B) on a consistent basis
D) Elevate your teams overall performance (possibly lead them to wining important trophies or help them attain something pausible ie a top 4 finish, save them from relegation etc)

Any player that has at least 3 of those four is WC i suppose.

Xavi fits nicely into all the four
Nani has 2 so he isn't WC but maybe he is, no?
Rooney is WC
Aguero isn't because again, he has 2 of those so I don't consider him WC.
anyways you get my point. Pedro has 2 so no WC.

But the again that is a very narrow minded view. What happens if a player goes to a different team and doesn't perform and he was previoulsy considerd WC? is WC a permanent status or something you only have for a few seasons? If it's the former then Ruud VN is still WC as he has performed in 3 different leagues and has been top goal scorer, but that isn't true is it? So it has to e the latter. So by that definition, Torres isn't a WC striker anymore and hasn't been one for almost two seasons. Villa isn't WC because he is currently suffering or is he? the saying form is temporary class is permanent comes into mind here. So if a player ala Veron who was played out of posotion at United was considered WC before, wheat would you have called him after he played at United? or Forlan? He had one WC season by that definition. Does being WC mean you have to perform the criteria for a certain number of seasons? If yes then Forlan, Marcelo and RVP (due to different circumstances are not WC). Messi and Ronaldo have been performing these feats consistently.

Using Balotelli for example, I would say that he isn't even close to WC as he only has one of those 4 things, but I'm sure people on this forum would disagree.

Using an example that the RM and Barcelona fans can relate to. Ronaldo and Messi. MEssi fulfilled all the categories last season and has done for 3 season now. It could be argues that ROnaldo only did 3, but 3 out of four is still WC. Xavi did all four, so by that definition, Xavi is a btter player than ROnaldo?

Going by this I think he is, comfortably. The system he plays in is irrelevant.

by Swanhends Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:16 am

Can't help but notice that this thread is filled with butthurt Madrid fans :dance:

by harhar11 Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 am

andiii wrote:i don't care he's such a twat i had to vote no

*edit* do truly world class players need to rely on diving so much?

Cristiano ronaldo, robben, lucio etc are/have been WC under one point in their career and all three of them are diving cheats...

by FennecFox7 Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:59 am

He's borderline WC. I wouldn't put him in my World XI but he can be on the bench

by The Franchise Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:01 pm

El Pipita wrote:He'd be world class in a possession-based side but he doesn't have the speed to cope with fast and physical players.

Possession based side meaning what? This sounds like code for "only good inside Barca".

Seriously, he can play world class for us because we have the ball 70% of the time, but he would struggle for Madrid or Chelsea because they only have 60%? That 10% makes that big a difference?

by Pedram Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:19 pm

The Franchise wrote:
El Pipita wrote:He'd be world class in a possession-based side but he doesn't have the speed to cope with fast and physical players.

Possession based side meaning what? This sounds like code for "only good inside Barca".

Seriously, he can play world class for us because we have the ball 70% of the time, but he would struggle for Madrid or Chelsea because they only have 60%? That 10% makes that big a difference?

You don't get it, Most of typical DM's nowadays are fast and physical and wouldn't struggle in a counter-attacking-based side. Busquets however mostly rely on his positional awareness and intercepting, he isn't an enforcer like most of DM's. that's why i've said he would be world class in any possession-based side.

by the xcx Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:21 pm

El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
El Pipita wrote:He'd be world class in a possession-based side but he doesn't have the speed to cope with fast and physical players.

Possession based side meaning what? This sounds like code for "only good inside Barca".

Seriously, he can play world class for us because we have the ball 70% of the time, but he would struggle for Madrid or Chelsea because they only have 60%? That 10% makes that big a difference?

You don't get it, Most of typical DM's nowadays are fast and physical and wouldn't struggle in a counter-attacking-based side. Busquets however mostly rely on his positional awareness and intercepting, he isn't an enforcer like most of DM's. that's why i've said he would be world class in any possession-based side.

Finally someone who gets it Very Happy

.
Biscuits is overrated as hell, what barca sees in him, idk.

by The Franchise Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:27 pm

El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
El Pipita wrote:He'd be world class in a possession-based side but he doesn't have the speed to cope with fast and physical players.

Possession based side meaning what? This sounds like code for "only good inside Barca".

Seriously, he can play world class for us because we have the ball 70% of the time, but he would struggle for Madrid or Chelsea because they only have 60%? That 10% makes that big a difference?

You don't get it, Most of typical DM's nowadays are fast and physical and wouldn't struggle in a counter-attacking-based side. Busquets however mostly rely on his positional awareness and intercepting, he isn't an enforcer like most of DM's. that's why i've said he would be world class in any possession-based side.

Most Dms are fast?

Like who?

Mikel, Song, Lucas, Barry, Van Bommell, Cambiasso...Madrid and Juve dont have a DM...

Your barely allowed to tackle anymore, your barely allowed to make contact in football anymore.

All DM´s intercept more then they tackle..so what is the importance of a "physical enforcer"?

by the xcx Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:38 pm

The Franchise wrote:
El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
El Pipita wrote:He'd be world class in a possession-based side but he doesn't have the speed to cope with fast and physical players.

Possession based side meaning what? This sounds like code for "only good inside Barca".

Seriously, he can play world class for us because we have the ball 70% of the time, but he would struggle for Madrid or Chelsea because they only have 60%? That 10% makes that big a difference?

You don't get it, Most of typical DM's nowadays are fast and physical and wouldn't struggle in a counter-attacking-based side. Busquets however mostly rely on his positional awareness and intercepting, he isn't an enforcer like most of DM's. that's why i've said he would be world class in any possession-based side.

Most Dms are fast?

Like who?

Mikel, Song, Lucas, Barry, Van Bommell, Cambiasso...Madrid and Juve dont have a DM...

Your barely allowed to tackle anymore, your barely allowed to make contact in football anymore.

All DM´s intercept more then they tackle..so what is the importance of a "physical enforcer"?

Dms being fast is quite true actually. Big clubs maybe dont rely much on a DM or a fast one nevertheless, Even Schalke 04 has Matip as a DM, and he is fast. Not to mention other small leagues/clubs that own a fast DM.