Russia trying to pass bill to ban gays from talking about being gay in books, speeches, or other forms of expression

RedOranje wrote:So where does that leave women who are barren or men who cannot produce sperm? Are they also "abnormal" and therefor less equal then the rest of us?



Some absolutely shocking statements here.

Yes they are abnormal in that aspect, otherwise most of them will want to cure it if it's possible.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

7amood11 wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:This is important though, most Muslims believe that in order for you to be a Muslim you have to believe that sharia is the only legislative authority, in sharia.

False.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:it states that any person who converts out of Islam should be executed

False.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:and it also says so of anyone muslim or not that insults their religion (which is why they call for the killing salman rushdie and the rest)

And False.



I hope nobody's actually believing this BS. The amount of crap this guy is spewing is incredible.

I know Im being lazy but here is an excerpt from the wiki page on apostasy in islam:

Execution
Legal opinion on apostasy by the Fatwa committee at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the highest Islamic institution in the world,[56][57] concerning the case of a man who converted to Christianity: "Since he left the Islam, he will be invited to express his regret. If he does not regret, he will be killed pertaining to rights and obligations of the Islamic law." The Fatwa also mentions that the same applies to his children if they entered Islam and left it after they reach maturity.

In medieval Islamic law (sharia), the consensus view was that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.[58] A minority of medieval Islamic jurists, notably the Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi (d. 1090),[11] Maliki jurist Ibn al-Walid al-Baji (d. 494 AH) and Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (1263–1328), held that apostasy carries no legal punishment.[59]

Contemporary Islamic Shafi`i jurists such as the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa,[60][61] Shi'a jurists such as Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,[62] and some jurists, scholars and writers of other Islamic sects, have argued or issued fatwas that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances, but these minority opinions have not found broad acceptance among the majority of Islamic scholars.

There is no death Penalty or any punishment for Apostasy in the Quran.

RedOranje wrote:So where does that leave women who are barren or men who cannot produce sperm? Are they also "abnormal" and therefor less equal then the rest of us?



Some absolutely shocking statements here.

Ahh good examples of... medical conditions.

I mean a man has a penis and a woman has a vagina.
Insert "A" into slot "B" and that's how you create life.


Or a tube.

I'm actually half-willing to go along with "homosexuality is not normal", but I have to say:
"not normal is not bad either", saying that even if we concede that it's not normal, and this is probably very much tied to how you define "normal", it's not necessarily a bad thing.

So for the sake of argument let's say: it's not normal.
So?

Being an ultra fan isn't normal as well, shit, everyone of us does probably one or two things that aren't normal.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, and gays certainly aren't (at least not by being gay) - why care?

Let them be not normal. They still deserve equal rights.

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm actually half-willing to go along with "homosexuality is not normal", but I have to say:
"not normal is not bad either", saying that even if we concede that it's not normal, and this is probably very much tied to how you define "normal", it's not necessarily a bad thing.

So for the sake of argument let's say: it's not normal.
So?

Being an ultra fan isn't normal as well, shit, everyone of us does probably one or two things that aren't normal.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, and gays certainly aren't (at least not by being gay) - why care?

Let them be not normal. They still deserve equal rights.

I can dig it.

RealGunner wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Argument

There is no death Penalty or any punishment for Apostasy in the Quran.

Who among muslims regards only the quran as source of jurisprudence? last time I checked in most muslim countries they would consider that heretical.

Again im being lazy

Within the Sahih al-Bukhari collection, worldly punishments are described in the following Hadith:

"2171. Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (there is no god but Allâh), cannot be shed except in three cases: 1. Life for life (in cases of intentional murders without right i.e., in Al-Qis̩âs̩ - Law of Equality in punishment); 2. A married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse; and 3. The one who turns renegade from Islâm (apostate) and leaves the group of Muslims (by innovating heresy, new ideas and new things etc. in the Islâmic religion). (See Fatḥ Al-Bâri, Vol. 15, Page 220 for details)]. [9:17-O.B]"[47]

The Sahih Muslim collection, reiterates and confirms that which is in the Sahih al-Bukhari collection:

"(4152) 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ūd) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact) that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community."

Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Give it up man, people are killed if they leave the religion.

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm actually half-willing to go along with "homosexuality is not normal", but I have to say:
"not normal is not bad either", saying that even if we concede that it's not normal, and this is probably very much tied to how you define "normal", it's not necessarily a bad thing.

So for the sake of argument let's say: it's not normal.
So?

Being an ultra fan isn't normal as well, shit, everyone of us does probably one or two things that aren't normal.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, and gays certainly aren't (at least not by being gay) - why care?

Let them be not normal. They still deserve equal rights.

That's exactly my point, its abnormal.

Human race must now start looking for
Medical treatment/solution so as to cure this abnormality. That is if people are actually born being gay, if its the other way round(not born being gay) they must snap out of it and get laid by a female, women deserve to get laid, they are indeed amazing and beautiful beings and we must appreciate their beauty and satisfy their sexual ogres, not getting it in the anus, that place lack natural lubricant except from human waste.

The Messiah wrote:That's exactly my point, its abnormal.

NO NO NO, stop, wait, HALT!

That's not exactly your point. My point is not at all your point.

My point is that even if it's normal, nobody should give a shit, and we should just let them do their thing.

Or even more general:
Just because something is not normal, that does not mean we must make it normal.

Because "normal" is neither a positive or a negative thing.

The Messiah wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm actually half-willing to go along with "homosexuality is not normal", but I have to say:
"not normal is not bad either", saying that even if we concede that it's not normal, and this is probably very much tied to how you define "normal", it's not necessarily a bad thing.

So for the sake of argument let's say: it's not normal.
So?

Being an ultra fan isn't normal as well, shit, everyone of us does probably one or two things that aren't normal.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, and gays certainly aren't (at least not by being gay) - why care?

Let them be not normal. They still deserve equal rights.

That's exactly my point, its abnormal.

Human race must now start looking for
Medical treatment/solution so as to cure this abnormality. That is if people are actually born being gay, if its the other way round(not born being gay) they must snap out of it and get laid by a female, women deserve to get laid, they are indeed amazing and beautiful beings and we must appreciate their beauty and satisfy their sexual ogres, not getting it in the anus, that place lack natural lubricant except from human waste.

Of course it’s normal; throughout history, a percentage of the population has been homosexual. They don’t form the majority, but they have always represented a significant portion of society. Just because you’re left handed, the fact that you’re in the statistical minority doesn’t make you ‘abnormal’ for Christ sake.
The religious argument makes no sense. If God hated homosexuality so much, why did he create so many gay people?
Why do you find it such a problem? How does it affect your life in any way? I’ve never had a homosexual tendency in my life, but I find your intolerance really strange. If you like women so much, why would you give a seconds thought to what other people do in their own homes?
Maybe you’re consumed by guilt and confusion by the dark feelings you secretly harbour...

I don't have problem with homosexual I can even today vote an homosexual man as president, but the truth is that what they practices is abnormal but that doesn't mean they are not human beings.


Their practice of having sex in the anus is unjustifiable for numbers of different reasons, typical example is that they can not father/mother children. People who eat with left hand are totally different, they don't have to reproduce that way and I know many left hand people that actually became right handed, unlike gay people, although I also know a lesbian that actually starting banging guys after all her years of claim and deny of being lesbian by nature. Gay people have sex in the Anus for Good green earth sake, its not a normal thing as far as nature is concern, its abnormal.


If you bring me a gay man I will say it to him, but that doesn't mean I won't vote for him to become a president if he's the better person for the job, otherwise if he's not the right person I will gladly not also vote for him.



It's just the way I am, I like to speak the truth from the way I see things, ( regardless of what people would say or think) gay people are normal people just like yo and I, they deserve no right than the ones normal people already have. Gays are normal people who practices abnormal acts for whatsoever reason. It's clear for everyone to see that having sex in the anus with another man, who can not reproduce or even have breast for infant to suckle on is abnormal.


Do you think gay people don't think about the secretly, when they are alone by themselves..? They think about their orientation all of the time and the feel worried about it, trust me I know many gay people, they are always the first to so I am ok, I am fine, I know a thinking man when I see one .

I would also like to point out that if there is conflict between a gay man and a straight one, chances are if the gay person is on the right side of things and the straight person is unjust, I will side with the gay person, Vice versa.

That doesn't mean I still do not acknowledge that their practice of having sex in the anus with another man is abnormal, anus didn't evolve to be used for sex or for reproduction, even though let's say it will one they evolve to suit that purpose, its still 5 million or more years away, we should respect one another anus.


Respect anus, don't harass it. Make love, not pain.

The Messiah wrote:That doesn't mean I still do not acknowledge that their practical of having sex in the anus with another man is abnormal, anus didn't evolve to be used for sex or for reproduction, even though let's say it will one they evolve to suit that purpose, its still 5 million or more years away, we should respect one another anus.


Respect anus, don't harass it. Make love, not pain.

Wait, wait, wait, wait - so NOW you believe in Evolution?

The Messiah wrote:I don't have problem with homosexual I can even today vote an homosexual man as president, but the truth is that what they practices is abnormal but that doesn't mean they are not human beings.


Their practice of having sex in the anus is unjustifiable for numbers of different reasons, typical example is that they can not father/mother children. People who eat with left hand are totally different, they don't have to reproduce that way and I know many left hand people that actually became right handed, unlike gay people, although I also know a lesbian that actually starting banging guys after all her years of claim and deny of being lesbian by nature. Gay people have sex in the Anus for Good green earth sake, its not a normal thing as far as nature is concern, its abnormal.


If you bring me a gay man I will say it to him, but that doesn't mean I won't vote for him to become a president if he's the better person for the job, otherwise if he's not the right person I will gladly not also vote for him.



It's just the way I am, I like to speak the truth from the way I see, gay people are normal people who deserve no right than the ones normal people already have. The act itself is abnormal and its crystal clear for everyone to see.


Do you think gay people don't think about the secretly, when they are alone by themselves..? They think about their orientation all of the time and the feel worried about it, trust me I know many gay people, they are always the first to so I am ok, I am fine, I know a thinking man when I see one .

There are many sexual acts between ‘straight’ people that don’t result in the fathering/mothering of children. Does that mean therefore that your girlfriend is ‘abnormal’ when she gives you a blowjob?
People don’t just have sex to procreate. If that were the case, there would be no birth control. Sex is an expression of love between two people; just because a sexual act doesn’t produce a child doesn’t mean that its ‘abnormal’ in some way. In any case, the planet is overcrowded as it is; the existence of homosexuality doesn’t threaten the future of the human race.
And if you knew what people ‘secretly’ thought then it wouldn’t be a secret now would it?

VivaStPauli wrote:

The Messiah wrote:That doesn't mean I still do not acknowledge that their practical of having sex in the anus with another man is abnormal, anus didn't evolve to be used for sex or for reproduction, even though let's say it will one they evolve to suit that purpose, its still 5 million or more years away, we should respect one another anus.


Respect anus, don't harass it. Make love, not pain.

Wait, wait, wait, wait - so NOW you believe in Evolution?

Do I believe anus will one day evolve to become suitable for having sex? Yes of course I do not, but even if I do, by the time it becomes suit for that purpose, human would have evolve other crazy things in their mind, say for example like having sex with your feet, or inspecting our penis in other people's ears or having sex with animals and claiming its normal sexual act.


Well it's not even 5 million years, but I already read about a few people who like to satisfy their sexual ogre by having sex with other animals.

The Messiah wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

The Messiah wrote:That doesn't mean I still do not acknowledge that their practical of having sex in the anus with another man is abnormal, anus didn't evolve to be used for sex or for reproduction, even though let's say it will one they evolve to suit that purpose, its still 5 million or more years away, we should respect one another anus.


Respect anus, don't harass it. Make love, not pain.

Wait, wait, wait, wait - so NOW you believe in Evolution?

Do I believe anus will one day evolve to become suitable for having sex? Yes of course I do not, but even if I do, by the time it becomes suit for that purpose, human would have evolve other things in they mind, say for example like having sex with you feet, or inspecting or penis I other people's ears.

Seriously, are you on drugs?

gary lahive wrote:

The Messiah wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

The Messiah wrote:That doesn't mean I still do not acknowledge that their practical of having sex in the anus with another man is abnormal, anus didn't evolve to be used for sex or for reproduction, even though let's say it will one they evolve to suit that purpose, its still 5 million or more years away, we should respect one another anus.


Respect anus, don't harass it. Make love, not pain.

Wait, wait, wait, wait - so NOW you believe in Evolution?

Do I believe anus will one day evolve to become suitable for having sex? Yes of course I do not, but even if I do, by the time it becomes suit for that purpose, human would have evolve other things in they mind, say for example like having sex with you feet, or inspecting or penis I other people's ears.

Seriously, are you on drugs?

Maybe, but I still know not to have sex with my anus.

The Messiah wrote:

gary lahive wrote:

The Messiah wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

The Messiah wrote:That doesn't mean I still do not acknowledge that their practical of having sex in the anus with another man is abnormal, anus didn't evolve to be used for sex or for reproduction, even though let's say it will one they evolve to suit that purpose, its still 5 million or more years away, we should respect one another anus.


Respect anus, don't harass it. Make love, not pain.

Wait, wait, wait, wait - so NOW you believe in Evolution?

Do I believe anus will one day evolve to become suitable for having sex? Yes of course I do not, but even if I do, by the time it becomes suit for that purpose, human would have evolve other things in they mind, say for example like having sex with you feet, or inspecting or penis I other people's ears.

Seriously, are you on drugs?

Maybe, but I still know not to have sex with my anus.

You certainly know how to talk out of it though.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

RealGunner wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Argument

There is no death Penalty or any punishment for Apostasy in the Quran.

Who among muslims regards only the quran as source of jurisprudence? last time I checked in most muslim countries they would consider that heretical.

That is why I said there is no Punishment for Apostasy in Islam. The Death penalty was started as a State law and is still a state law in the Islamic countries.

Again im being lazy

Within the Sahih al-Bukhari collection, worldly punishments are described in the following Hadith:

"2171. Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (there is no god but Allâh), cannot be shed except in three cases: 1. Life for life (in cases of intentional murders without right i.e., in Al-Qis̩âs̩ - Law of Equality in punishment); 2. A married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse; and 3. The one who turns renegade from Islâm (apostate) and leaves the group of Muslims (by innovating heresy, new ideas and new things etc. in the Islâmic religion). (See Fatḥ Al-Bâri, Vol. 15, Page 220 for details)]. [9:17-O.B]"[47]

The Sahih Muslim collection, reiterates and confirms that which is in the Sahih al-Bukhari collection:

"(4152) 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ūd) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact) that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community."

Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Give it up man, people are killed if they leave the religion.

Hadith =/= The word of God. Half of them are heavily tampered with

Verily, We sent down to you [O Muhammad] the Book [Qur'an] for mankind in truth. So, whosoever goes astray, he goes astray to his own loss. And you [O Muhammad] are not a guardian over them. (Az-Zumar 39:41)

[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

RealGunner wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

RealGunner wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Argument

There is no death Penalty or any punishment for Apostasy in the Quran.

Who among muslims regards only the quran as source of jurisprudence? last time I checked in most muslim countries they would consider that heretical.

That is why I said there is no Punishment for Apostasy in Islam. The Death penalty was started as a State law and is still a state law in the Islamic countries.

Again im being lazy

Within the Sahih al-Bukhari collection, worldly punishments are described in the following Hadith:

"2171. Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (there is no god but Allâh), cannot be shed except in three cases: 1. Life for life (in cases of intentional murders without right i.e., in Al-Qis̩âs̩ - Law of Equality in punishment); 2. A married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse; and 3. The one who turns renegade from Islâm (apostate) and leaves the group of Muslims (by innovating heresy, new ideas and new things etc. in the Islâmic religion). (See Fatḥ Al-Bâri, Vol. 15, Page 220 for details)]. [9:17-O.B]"[47]

The Sahih Muslim collection, reiterates and confirms that which is in the Sahih al-Bukhari collection:

"(4152) 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ūd) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact) that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community."

Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Give it up man, people are killed if they leave the religion.

Hadith =/= The word of God. Half of them are heavily tampered with

Verily, We sent down to you [O Muhammad] the Book [Qur'an] for mankind in truth. So, whosoever goes astray, he goes astray to his own loss. And you [O Muhammad] are not a guardian over them. (Az-Zumar 39:41)

[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

Maybe in your reading of Islam, but as we know almost 90% of muslims believe in hadith either sunni or shia and not just that but believe it to be an integral part of islam and might even call someone who doesnt an infidel. They believe that anything Moe did was inspired by god.\

Btw most regular muslims would tell you that the parts of the quran merely describe the reality of things rather than talk about how a muslim soceity should react to such a matter