Boxing thread

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I'll kick it off with the latest Dwyer piece on Mayweather and Pacquaio



Words cannot explain how true this is and what i have said for months, also i dont mean to offend anybody here but the top comments in the video are spot on.....

Casual fans dont understand the technical side of boxing about being inside and outside and counter punching etc etc.

And think its all about brawling but iam sorry it isnt theres a reason boxing is called the sweet science.

[The Franchise]

There is a boxing thread somewhere, but buried deep down so probably a good idea to start another.

Anyway, Floyd would whoop him, im confident. But untill we see it, we dont know.

The only thing that annoys me if the merry band of Pacman fanboys who do their upmost to discredit Floyd and insist he hasnt actually fought anybody good. Always discrediting his opponants as too small, too old, too young ect ect

When in fact, Pacman is the one who is fighting Floyds leftovers after he disposed of them.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

There is a boxing thread somewhere, but buried deep down so probably a good idea to start another.

Anyway, Floyd would whoop him, im confident. But untill we see it, we dont know.

The only thing that annoys me if the merry band of Pacman fanboys who do their upmost to discredit Floyd and insist he hasnt actually fought anybody good. Always discrediting his opponants as too small, too old, too young ect ect

When in fact, Pacman is the one who is fighting Floyds leftovers after he disposed of them.

I did look but couldnt find one but yh this is probably for the best......

Yep i have noticed that aswell lol, it gets really annoying i myself would never discredit anything Manny has done ( except for the Marquez fights lol) he is got to the top of his profession through blasting his way through everyone fair dues to the lad......

I do agree with Dwyer that he cant fight off his back foot but if people are not going to take advantage that isnt his fought.

[RealGunner]

I hope Khan can fight Mayweather before he retires

[The Franchise]

I often find myself agreeing with Dwyner tbh, I have learnt alot just listening then watching.

I laugh at those who are saying Manny was the agressor and therefore deserved it...chaasing around aimlessly and getting drilled in the face doesnt win the fights.

I mean, if being the agressor is the key, I guess Ali rarely won a fight then?

When scoring a fight, there are 4 things to consider. I didnt make these up, these are offical.

1. Effective agression
2. Clean and effective punching
3. Defence
4. Ring generalship


Which of these did Manny do?

Which of these did Marquez do?

[The Franchise]

Khan needs to fight Maidana again before he thinks of Floyd tbh.

Or someone like Cotto, Saul Alverez, Ortiz...there are loads of fights out there who are more realistic at this point.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I hope Khan can fight Mayweather before he retires

I do think Khan can pose more problems for Mayweather than Pacquaio again mainly due to styles......

He has a much better defence, jab and can definitely fight off his back foot.....

Still think Mayweather would have him mind, aslong as he doesnt wait too long.

Complete agreed Dani, i use to think i knew it all LOL.

But watching Dwyer and going back and watching again has greatly improved my knowledge of the game and do also greatly enjoy listening him and greatly anticipate his next video.

Not just boxing either he improved my gambling record aswell

Yh i agree theres loads more fights Khan should be taking before Floyd, hes talking about fighting him in the next 9-12 months that is way too soon to be fighting Floyd imo.

Alvarez is a good one considering his following aswell that fight would make major $$$

[The Franchise]

Only problem with Saul Alverez is he has moved up to junior middleweight and is a champion there, I think as he is getting out of his teens he is getting even bigger and is naturally more of a middleweight. Khan clearly isnt a middleweight and never will be.

Would Saul go down for a fight with Khan? Im not sure, he probably wouldnt be able to fight the mandatory and would have to give up the belt.

Maidana or Ortiz is a more likely fight I think.

As for Floyd, I agree with Mole, he would cause Floyd more problems stylewise then Manny. However I think Khan is still a little green. If he gets hurt, he will fight back, which isnt often the smart thing to do. His defence has improved, but its mostly mostly because he is moving more sideways and backwards, he isnt blocking shots or moving his head better as shown in the Maidana fight. Floyd wont chase after Khan, so it might be a boring fight too.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Only problem with Saul Alverez is he has moved up to junior middleweight and is a champion there, I think as he is getting out of his teens he is getting even bigger and is naturally more of a middleweight. Khan clearly isnt a middleweight and never will be.

Would Saul go down for a fight with Khan? Im not sure, he probably wouldnt be able to fight the mandatory and would have to give up the belt.

Maidana or Ortiz is a more likely fight I think.

As for Floyd, I agree with Mole, he would cause Floyd more problems stylewise then Manny. However I think Khan is still a little green. If he gets hurt, he will fight back, which isnt often the smart thing to do. His defence has improved, but its mostly mostly because he is moving more sideways and backwards, he isnt blocking shots or moving his head better as shown in the Maidana fight. Floyd wont chase after Khan, so it might be a boring fight too.

Yh good point about Saul being the champ at junior middleweight completely forgot about that

What about Cotto is that a possibility you think?

But anyway theres lots of fights out there for Khan before he should even think about Floyd......

[The Franchise]

Cotto has that fight with Margarito coming up soon, which is at 154. The superwelterweight-junior middle cut off. Cant come up to it and I think Cotto is sick of going down because its too difficult for him.

So yeah, I dont think thats so likely either.

But there are tons of fights out there for him anyway. Maidana or Ortiz are two obvious ones for me.

Any thoughts on Cotto- Margs?

Cotto is one of my favourites but I think he will struggle.

Margs may or may not have cheated when he beat him last time, I think he did. But the worrying thing is Margs was walking threw Cottos punches and that has nothing to do with plaster in his hand wraps.

Margs has crazy stamina and he can take a pounding and eventually wear you down. I think this could happen again, the only difference being Margs doesnt hammer Cotto´s face in because he isnt wearing plaster in his gloves lol

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Cotto has that fight with Margarito coming up soon, which is at 154. The superwelterweight-junior middle cut off. Cant come up to it and I think Cotto is sick of going down because its too difficult for him.

So yeah, I dont think thats so likely either.

But there are tons of fights out there for him anyway. Maidana or Ortiz are two obvious ones for me.

Any thoughts on Cotto- Margs?

Cotto is one of my favourites but I think he will struggle.

Margs may or may not have cheated when he beat him last time, I think he did. But the worrying thing is Margs was walking threw Cottos punches and that has nothing to do with plaster in his hand wraps.

Margs has crazy stamina and he can take a pounding and eventually wear you down. I think this could happen again, the only difference being Margs doesnt hammer Cotto´s face in because he isnt wearing plaster in his gloves lol

Yh i always thought 147 was to much for Cotto......

As for Cotto and Margs, iam inclined to agree with you that Cotto will struggle to blast Margs away in think i dont see him having a chance of doing so.....

The best chance Cotto has imo is using his superior boxing skills and staying on the outside because if he tries to blast Margs away then Margs superior Chin and stamina will show in the latter rounds of the fight....

It really depends on what Cotto shows up imo and if iam honest iam unsure who to go for but iam swinging towards Margs with a late stoppage.....

Whats your thoughts on Carl Froch and Andre Ward btw?

[The Franchise]

Exactly. Also Khan isnt even a welterweight himself, he is a junior welter. Too much weight difference between them.

Agree about Cotto and Margs. I think Cotto could win it on points, so if he doesnt run out of gas trying to KO someone who cant be KOed he has a chance.


Froch and Ward, great match up. When is that? I know it got pushed back because Ward got cut in camp.

Anyway, I like Froch and Ward, I dont know who to pick really. Ward hasnt lost a fight, while Froch lost to Kessler and in my opinion lost to Dirrell too so its hard to go against Ward in this
one.

I like Frochs versitility and obviously his power, but I think Ward is just the bit more skilled and has better defence.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Exactly. Also Khan isnt even a welterweight himself, he is a junior welter. Too much weight difference between them.

Agree about Cotto and Margs. I think Cotto could win it on points, so if he doesnt run out of gas trying to KO someone who cant be KOed he has a chance.


Froch and Ward, great match up. When is that? I know it got pushed back because Ward got cut in camp.

Anyway, I like Froch and Ward, I dont know who to pick really. Ward hasnt lost a fight, while Froch lost to Kessler and in my opinion lost to Dirrell too so its hard to go against Ward in this
one.

I like Frochs versitility and obviously his power, but I think Ward is just the bit more skilled and has better defence.

It's on 17th December, i only mentioned because heard Froch talking on the radio lol....

As for the fight i really am undecided obviously Froch has the power to take him out and Ward doesnt really have a KO punch to effect Froch but as you said he is more skilled and has better defence so will be using his job almost exclusively and staying on the outside as much as possible.

Great match up and currently unsure who i think will win it..... probably Ward on UD but it could easily go the other way aswell.

[The Franchise]

Oscar De La Hoya: Bob Arum's afraid
By Arash Markazi

LOS ANGELES -- Top Rank CEO Bob Arum has said he believes the megafight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather will never happen because Mayweather is afraid of Pacquiao.

After Pacquiao's controversial majority decision over Juan Manuel Marquez last Saturday, Golden Boy Promotions founder Oscar De La Hoya said the only one afraid of making the fight happen is Arum.

"He's the one who's stopping it from happening," De La Hoya said. "Bob Arum doesn't want to see the fight happen."

So what will it take to finally make the most anticipated boxing fight a reality?

"For Bob Arum to say, 'OK, we want the fight,'" De La Hoya said. "Our side, meaning Golden Boy and Floyd Mayweather, he wants the fight, we want the fight. Mayweather has his date for the fifth of May next year. He wants the biggest fight out there. He wants Pacquiao, there's no doubt about that. It would be very unfortunate if this fight could not be made because of Bob Arum."

Mayweather announced earlier this month he planned a May 5 fight at the MGM Grand and, according to his advisor Leonard Ellerbe, wanted to "make the biggest fight possible and everyone knows what that fight is, the little fella (Pacquiao)."

"The fans are the ones who speak in a big way," De La Hoya said. "They've been asking for this fight for a very long time. Look, Manny Pacquiao is the champion of the people and the people are asking for this fight so let's make it happen. There's no doubt in my mind Manny Pacquiao wants the fight and Floyd Mayweather wants the fight. I guess we all know now who doesn't want the fight. I just ask for the sake of the sport, for the sake of boxing, let's make this fight happen."

De La Hoya spoke at an event at Staples Center leading up to Sunday's MLS Cup where the Los Angeles Galaxy will face the Houston Dynamo. De La Hoya is a part owner of the Dynamo along with Philip Anschutz and Gabriel Brener. The Los Angeles native, however, said he would not pursue purchasing the Los Angeles Dodgers, which was a possibility he had hinted at in the past.

"We've talked about it but I'm actually going to focus on MLS and obviously boxing," De La Hoya said. "I love soccer and I love boxing and I obviously love baseball but we're focusing now on MLS and boxing."

[The Franchise]

Hopkins' Trainer: Marquez a Better Fighter Than Pacquiao
By Chris Robinson

The talk of the boxing world is still revolved around this weekend’s third clash between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez. Inside of a shocked crowd at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Nevada, Marquez, a huge underdog heading in, would defy the odds with a spirited and game effort that many felt should have led him towards victory despite the majority-decision verdict that went against him.

The next move for Pacquiao seems to be uncertain, as his promoter Bob Arum mentioned that a fourth fight with Marquez could be a possibility while the fight everyone wants from him is a dream fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr. Who knows how everything will play out but for the moment Pacquiao has been taking some criticism from some boxing insiders who felt he didn’t do enough to beat Marquez and were surprised at his inability to mount a sustained attack on Saturday night.

One man with some interesting observations on the fight and its many subplots is esteemed trainer Naazim Richardson, known best for his work with Bernard Hopkins and Shane Mosley. Always one to speak with great insight, Richardson knows Pacquiao very well, having led Mosley into battle against him this past May in a result that saw him come up short after twelve frustrating rounds.

During our recent conversation, Richardson shared why he feels that Marquez is a better fighter than Pacquiao, the weaknesses that are easy to see in Manny, the bold proclamations coming from Pacquiao’s camp this time around, and much more.

This is what Naazim had to say…

Why Marquez is a better fighter than Pacquiao...
“I picked Marquez to win. Marquez is a better fighter than Pacquiao. He’s just not as strong. I thought Marquez won. I thought Marquez won the other fights. Marquez knows how to fight Pacquiao. Pacquiao’s not as good a fighter as Marquez. He’s just more explosive and Marquez is so aggressive at times that his aggression played against him in the other fights. When he started having success, what he normally does with everybody, he starts pressuring guys, and when he starts pressuring Pacquiao, Pacquiao gets the knockdown and the knockdowns make the difference."

I’d be suspicious too…
“But Marquez is a much more technically sound boxer than Pacquiao. Marquez, pound for pound, might be the best fighter in boxing from a technical standpoint. Nobody’s as talented as Floyd. And nobody’s as explosive as this kid Pacquiao. They called me a couple of weeks ago and asked me what I thought of Marquez-Pacquiao, and I said if Pacquiao blows Marquez out, I’d be suspicious. I would hold some suspicions if Pacquiao blows Marquez out. If he can beat Marquez easy, then in my eyebrows would raise to. It’s already proven that Marquez is a better fighter than Pacquiao.”

Another level of boxing…
“And I think that’s why they got so excited about pushing the issue of separating them in this fight, how the third fight would make the final decision, how they wanted to shut up Nacho Beristain’s mouth up, and I understand all that emotion coming out, because you got labeled the best fighter in boxing. But you have to know that this kid is better than him. Until they match up him and Mayweather, they aren’t going to let nobody beat Pacquiao unless they knock him out. Taking nothing away from Pacquiao, he’s a phenomenal fighter, and probably the most dangerous cat in the game, especially in any of those weights lower than Klitschko, but Marquez is another level of boxing. Marquez is Alexi Arguello, Marquez is Ricardo Lopez. He’s the little professor, Azumah Nelson.”

Keeping Pacquiao vs. Mayweather alive…
“Like I said, Emanuel [Steward], being the commentator, he tries to stay in that position, but at heart as a coach and a competitor and even he had to admit that they still wanted a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight. They want to keep that alive. Who doesn’t make money in that? Reporters get to write. You guys are going to be writing all night long when Mayweather and Pacquiao get together. Vegas will make money. Casinos will sell. Even guys selling hotdogs and popcorn is going to make more money. Marquez and Mayweather is not going to draw that. Marquez and Pacquiao won’t draw that and Marquez had to keep that in mind. So, when they were starting to read the scores it didn’t surprise me. Because Mayweather is the only person in there allowed to beat Pacquiao by decision right about now.”

People will see it…
“People are not realizing something I said, when Shane fought Pacquiao. And I know they thought I looked crazy. They said ‘Naazim is out of his mind. What is he talking about?’. I said ‘You just showed somebody else how to beat him’. I was surprised dudes weren’t running at him. I told Shane, but I would never reveal it, because as far as I’m concerned you hired me, you paid me to give you that information. I won’t reveal that information to anybody else. But people will see it. Nobody’s stupid. Nobody’s blind.”

Pacquiao’s defect…
“You can easily go back and watch Shane Mosley box Pacquiao and you see him get hurt and you wonder why he never gets hurt again. And if you just watch the fight and once you see that, every fighter is going to apply that method. Marquez did it in this fight and everybody else is going to do it. And once that’s revealed, eventually it’s just a matter of a timeline. It’s whether Freddie is going to make adjustments to the guy because it’s hard because the defect he has, he’s had since he’s been boxing. So for them to change it now, I even saw when they were trying to change it. So, like I said, I don’t underestimate anybody, so for me to sit here and think that the Mayweather and their high IQ of boxing that they have, they haven’t see in, would be ludicrous for me to think in that capacity.”

If you watch the fight…
“Ok, they said he fights with leg cramps. I don’t dispute it. But all I can say is, I watched the fight with my son and all these other people and all they kept going on was about how well Pacquiao was moving. ‘Look at the way he moves his legs, look at the way he moves his legs’. Then I heard the people saying ‘Well Pacquiao has a right hand now. He didn’t have a right hand before’. And if you watch the fight, I can’t remember the round, when Jim Lampley says it, immediately after he says it, Pacquiao does it. He said ‘Before all Pacquiao did was jab, jab, straight left hand’. And immediately after he says it, Pacquiao jabs, jabs, throws a straight left hand then jabs, jabs, and throws another straight left hand. I was concentrating on the development of the right arm, how it was so much more educated, and I watched for that. I saw him throw one right hook that I thought landed.”

Bringing God into an equation...
“You caught some of that 24/7 I’m sure. They were saying ‘Greatest camp ever’. ‘Greatest training ever’. Ariza said ‘God himself’ couldn’t help Marquez. That means they are better than God now. Ariza said God himself couldn’t help this dude. God himself? A statement like ‘God himself’, to me that’s not a big head, that’s something else. When you bring God into an equation, I understand you are trying to make a point, but what you do is, once you bring God into it, there’s no excuse. There’s nothing else. Now you have to think, are the leg cramps a Godsend? You know what I mean? Since you brought it up that God himself couldn’t do nothing, maybe God wanted to prove that he could.”

There’s no limit…
“But my thing is that man, there’s a reason I don’t say things of that nature. I don’t tell people ‘There will never be another Ray Robinson’. You know what you are actually saying? You’re saying God did the best he could actually do. But when you say there will never be another Jordan, there will never be another Ray Robinson, there will never be another Muhammad Ali, you are basically saying God broke the mold when he made those dudes. And it could never get better than this. I don’t see how , if you could mention God’s name in things, that you could assume things like that. For those of us who seem like we hold a relationship with God, there’s no limit. There’s no limit. I can’t even fathom to tell my kids ‘You could never be as good as another man’. I’ve never seen a man who made me think in that capacity. ‘Wow, we’ll never see another man like this’. It’s just a man.”

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Why am i not suprised

I always knew this fight would be difficult to make simply because of the relationship between Arum and Mayweather.

And yes Marquez is a better fighter he showed that over the 3 fights lol, and is a miles better technician and can adapt to different ways of fighting......

I dont believe Pacquaio can as been pointed out before he cannot fight off his back foot.

Nice reads Dani, cheers for posting.

[The Franchise]

Some heavy reading, but worth it.

Im not a stats man, but I think its a worthwhile read which you can draw some conclusions from.

Mine. They back up alot of what I see with my eyes. Floyd is the elite, Saul Alverez is a legit manchild and Margs is the Park Ji Sung of boxing lol





Floyd Mayweather Jr. tops the CompuBox plus/minus ratings for all active fighters. Mayweather nearly doubles the plus/minus rating of his nearest competitors, Saul Alvarez and Andre Ward.

Mayweather is the most accurate, Alexander is the least accurate.

Narvaez gets hit at a lower rate than anyone else but you need to take the level of opposition into account. Margarito gets hit at the highest rate.

Mares and Margarito are the busiest, Pascal the least active.

Vitali lands the most jabs per round, Ortiz the least.

Pacquiao and Mares land more power punches per round than anybody else.

Agbeko lands the most punches per round, Pascal and DeMarco the least.


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[The Franchise]

Facinating stuff indeed.

This is my hope for Cotto, that Margs is indeed one eyed. If he is, I still dont know Cotto wins but it sure makes it intresting.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I hope Cotto wins, i just dont like Margs lol but for some reason i keep seeing a late stoppage for Margs in my brain.....

I hope iam wrong.

[LeSwagg James]

Margarito is a fxcking cheater, should be banned from boxing... Don't get how he's still allowed to fight

[The Franchise]

From wiki, but it is about as accurate as I know it.

"Controversy erupted before the fight when Mosley's trainer, Naazim Richardson, observed that Margarito had a pasty white substance in his handwraps. One doctor described this material as plaster hidden in the wrapped hands of Margarito, leading to accusations that he may have been trying to cheat. At Richardson's insistence, California State Inspector Dean Lohuis called for Margarito's hands to be rewrapped. According to Judd Burstein, the attorney for Mosley, Margarito had wet pads in the wrapping. Mosley's doctor, Robert Olvera, likened the material to the type of plaster used to make casts. Burstein said he seized the pad removed from the wrapping and another pad found in Margarito's dressing room. Both were placed in a sealed box that was given to Lohuis for further study. The California Department of Justice laboratory later confirmed the substance to be similar in nature to plaster of Paris.
In late January, the California State Athletic Commission suspended Margarito and his trainer, Javier Capetillo, pending investigation. At the hearing, Margarito claimed he did not know what was in the wraps, while Capetillo admitted to making "a big mistake" by placing the wrong inserts into Margarito's hand wraps. The commission voted unanimously to revoke Margarito and Capetillo's licenses for at least one year. While it found Margarito did not know about the gloves, it took the line that as head of the team, he was responsible for Capetillo's actions. Since state boxing commissions generally honor suspensions imposed in other states, this action effectively banned Margarito from boxing in the United States.
In November 2009, it emerged that red stains on the hand wraps Margarito used in the Cotto fight were similar to the stains on the inserts seized before the Mosley fight. This has raised suspicions that Margarito's gloves were loaded for that fight, and possibly others as well."

[The Franchise]

In other news, Margarito has been given the licence to fight in New Yorik. His eye is fine....damn.

Then again, Joe Frazier was in fact blind in one eye for much of his career and passed the eye test by memorizing the board.

I think though this isnt the case and Margs eye is fine.

[LeSwagg James]

I know about the Margarito incident.. He didn't know about it? Bullshxt, he didn't feel that his hands were harder? No body knows how long the loading of his gloves has been going on for.. Absolute disgrace

[The Franchise]

Well apperently it works like this.

After the plaster like substance is inserted, nothing actually happens. Once we starts to sweat it gets wet and turns hard, like plaster.

So it takes 4 rounds or so, which cooincidently was when Margs punches started to get to Cotto. Take that for what it is.

But nothing was suspected at the time so that was never investiaged. He got caught before the fight with Mosely.

So I guess the decision came about from he never got caught wearing it when it was hard, so it is feasable he didnt know about it.

Overall, its a load of crap and he clearly would of known. I think Bob Arum probably paid someone off and he got away with just 1 year.

I find it strange how Cotto´s promoter continues to plead the innoncence of Margarito.

[LeSwagg James]

Well apperently it works like this.

After the plaster like substance is inserted, nothing actually happens. Once we starts to sweat it gets wet and turns hard, like plaster.

So it takes 4 rounds or so, which cooincidently was when Margs punches started to get to Cotto. Take that for what it is.

But nothing was suspected at the time so that was never investiaged. He got caught before the fight with Mosely.

So I guess the decision came about from he never got caught wearing it when it was hard, so it is feasable he didnt know about it.

Overall, its a load of crap and he clearly would of known. I think Bob Arum probably paid someone off and he got away with just 1 year.

I find it strange how Cotto´s promoter continues to plead the innoncence of Margarito.

Yeah has to be a load of crap, you said they get hard with sweat right? I'm sure he noticed how hard it gets after the fight when he's taking it off..

Cotto was probably pissed when he heard about the Mosely incident and obviously thinks that is why Margarito beat him.. I think he just wants to get revenge lol, probably told his team to not say anything that would jeopardize the fight

I hope he beats the shxt out of that cheating bastard

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