Sell C.Ronaldo thread!

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:02 pm

Ronaldo said that he would rather win titles with the team rather than being top scorer.

I disagree about the part that chasing the pichichi is pitiful because he did not drop on his knees and beg his team mates to pass the ball to him they willingly wanted him to win it just like Evra and Berba.

Another thing Ronaldo may not be remembered for winning the golden boot but he will be remembered for scoring 40 league goals and will hold that record for a very long time unless he himself breaks it.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:18 pm

stated after the fact = worthless till proven

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Post by I-no on Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:40 am

whaaaaaaaaaaat?!! he scores goals, why sell him? you win when you score more goals than the losers. he scores goals why sell him?
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Post by Babun on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:08 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
Last season, Lionel Messi faced Osasuna having scored hat tricks in each of his previous two games. All the buildup was about whether he could become the first player since the War to score three trebles in successive La Liga matches.
Osasuna, understandably, double-marked him and, in a tetchy game, Messi was booked for kicking the ball away in frustration.

With 18 minutes to go, though, Zlatan Ibrahimovic finally broke through for Barca; the first player over to congratulate him was Messi, his face relaxed into smiles. For him, the most important thing was not his personal record, but the team, winning the game.

Compare Cristiano Ronaldo's reaction in Moscow after Manchester United had won the Champions League. Playing on the left wing, he had scored the opening goal, but after winning the battle in the first half hour, found himself dominated by Michael Essien, playing at right back.

Again and again the Ghanaian surged past him, and Ronaldo was unable or unwilling to track him. It was just such a surge that led to Chelsea's equalizer shortly before halftime. Ronaldo then missed his penalty in the shootout. United still won, because John Terry and Nicolas Anelka also missed, but Ronaldo, having looked like being the hero, was the player who'd got away with it.

As the rest of his teammates celebrates in front of the United fans, Ronaldo sat alone on the halfway line, weeping. Perhaps he was merely overcome by the emotion of the whole occasion, but it was hard not to interpret his attitude as a sulk.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have supreme technical ability. Both can turn games single-handed. Ronaldo is taller and more powerful, much better in the air. But he is also an egotist, wrapped up in his own personal glory to a deleterious extent. His pursuit of the pichichi and Golden Boot (the awards for top goal scorer in Spain and in Europe respectively) this season have been pitiful.

Away against Atletico Madrid, after Real Madrid had gone 2-0 up in the first half-hour, Ronaldo spent the rest of the game pinging in shots from unlikely distances and angles. Sergio Aguero pulled one back with five minutes to go, and Real Madrid almost drew a game they should have won by a vast margin.

Perhaps Ronaldo would have acted like that anyway, but it's hard to believe his selfishness was not accentuated by his desire to win the individual goal scoring awards, something that was turned into a consolation prize by the Madrid press once it became apparent that Barcelona was walking away with the league title, and even more so after Barcelona had beaten Real Madrid in the Champions League semifinal. But, frankly, who cares?

Look at the list of players to have won the European Golden Boot.

Eusebio, Gerd Muller, Josip Skoblar, Hans Krankl and Ian Rush were all great players, but really, who now remembers Hector Yazalde (Sporting 1974), Kees Kist (AZ Alkmaar 1979), Rodion Camataru and Dorin Mateut (Dinamo Bucharest 1987 and 1989), David Taylor (Porthmadog 1994), Arsen Avetisyan (Homenmen 1995), Zviad Endeladze (Margveti 1996)? All of them were also top scorers in Europe. Is that the pantheon to which Ronaldo was so desperate to be elected?

Those last three never won the Golden Boot because the award was discontinued for five years after it became apparent the result was being rigged. That two Dinamo Bucharest players won in the space of three years was not coincidence, and the blatant manipulation of tallies in Cyprus in 1990-91 led to the award being discontinued.

If only it had remained so. Imagine the scene. It's 1-1 and a forward is clean through on goal in the last minute. His team needs a win to lift the league title, but if he scores a goal he will win the Golden Boot. He could roll the ball square for a teammate who can't miss, or he can seek personal glory and shoot.
The correct thing to do is to roll the ball square as that is the move that brings the greatest probability of a decisive goal; yet by some perversion of soccer's logic the action that will bring an individual award is to shoot. That cannot be right.

Before Manchester United's final game of the Premier League season against Blackpool, Patrice Evra breezily admitted that he was desperate to help Dimitar Berbatov win the Golden Boot ahead of Carlos Tevez. "Whenever I get the ball I'll be passing to Berba because I want him to score," he said.

Which sounds like a generous gesture, but imagine the following scenario. United and Blackpool are locked at 1-1 in the final minute, a score line that, if it becomes the result, will keep Blackpool up. Evra finds himself with a shooting chance. If he scores Blackpool are relegated, while United, having already wrapped up the title, doesn't really care, so he pauses to try to allow Berbatov to catch him up so he can lay the ball to him.
As a result the chance is wasted. Blackpool stays up and -- say -- Wolves is relegated instead. In that instance the individual award actually distorts the competition.

And that's just the goal scoring awards. The Ballon d'Or and other player of the season awards are just as insidious -- invariably going to forwards and creative midfielders and encouraging the sort of showboating that looks good in five-minute YouTube clips, but doesn't necessarily win matches or lead to constructive play.

"I heard [the boxer] Carlos Monzon's trainer, Amilcar Brusa, explain that when a boxer fights on television, it's crucial he throw many punches, regardless of where they land," Jorge Valdano said in an interview six years ago. "That's because television demands activity."

And by introducing an ulterior demand, but stimulating interest in a side issue, it diminishes the game itself. All the greatest greats -- Pele, Diego Maradona, Johan Cruyff, Ferenc Puskas, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfred Di Stefano -- all those at the very highest level of the pantheon, were, while individually gifted, great team men.

Messi may not have won the Golden Boot or the pichichi this season, but he is an awful lot closer to joining them than Ronaldo.
Sell C.Ronaldo thread! - Page 10 Ronaldo7_298
At times during the 2010-11 campaign, Real Madrid's Ronaldo looked as if he was more concerned with winning the leading individual scorer title.


Jonathan Wilson is the author of Inverting the Pyramid; Behind the Curtain; Sunderland: A Club Transformed; and The Anatomy of England.


My thread is better than this piece of sh!t Very Happy If he tries to wind up the Madrid community, he is 100 years too early Very Happy

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Post by stunt on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:41 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you cant compare Makelele to Ronaldo bro

Makelele was a linchpin in the midfield, Vital in both attack and defense. his role was so pivotal to the team that it's only normal we failed when we picked gravesen to replace him. He was protecting the defense, while making the clean transition to the attacking players.

Ronaldo isnt even the main piece of our buildup, he is the first attacking outlet, it's also easier to replace that. Sure we will miss his goalscoring, but you need only to reorganize your attack and put a greater emphasis on building up.

I'm not saying it's easy to replace him, but no way we will fall apart.

Oh you will fall appart, there's not one player who can replace ronaldo. Sure you could get another great goalscorer, but you would have to center your team around him and change tactics because he would play differently. And other goalscorers who could score the same as ronaldo? Well, its definetly not that flopping ass benzema.

Yeah the one who should be sold is benzema. Bench is enough though.

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Post by the xcx on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:59 am

Your absolutely right btw, Ive never had even a thought to sell CR7.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:02 am

and what about his 53 goals

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Post by the xcx on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:06 am

The amount of influence to our offence when CR7 plays is huge.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:06 am

@stunt wrote:
Oh you will fall appart, there's not one player who can replace ronaldo. Sure you could get another great goalscorer, but you would have to center your team around him and change tactics because he would play differently. And other goalscorers who could score the same as ronaldo? Well, its definetly not that flopping ass benzema.

Yeah the one who should be sold is benzema. Bench is enough though.

hmmmm no. I think in modern football, you will hardly see a team build around any forward. you do it around the midfield, or at least around some one who can take over the ball and direct the play. It's the way to build long term success.

we saw how it goes when alonso isnt playing, and we were looking a bit pathetic last year when kaka was underperforming. as a matter of fact, some of the key men of our campaign last season were Vdv and Guti, but they are under appreciated, and ronaldo scoring stole the highlights.

the stronger the midfield, the stronger the squad, and as long as we make it a priority, as we are doing with the signing of Sahin, and hopefully canales and co will develop, we will be fine, even if ronaldo isnt here.

i think it's a bit silly to think that just because he wouldnt be here, we wouldnt do well. Ronaldo is a phenomenal goal scorer, no doubt, and he is helping us make a transition from the wreckage we were to a better unit, without us losing any relevance. His individual strength makes the difference as, even if our team isnt as cohesive as we would want to, his goalscoring can keep us afloat.





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Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:26 am

He does slightly hurt our build up play but imo it is made up by his huge contribution to the attack.
That article is full of shit, and while it does acknoledge some good points, in no way does some of the stuff make ANY sense. Contrary to the article, this is the season where i have seen him play least selfishly. Secondly he talks about the manchester united incident where he was crying. Well he was very close to messing up the whole teams chances, with that penalty miss. it actually shows how much he cares about the team. then he talks about how ronaldo "doesn't track back". This argument is used way too often. Show me a flair player who tracks back. You can give me a few, and that's about it. Benzema springs to mind.. hard to think of any more. Messi when he feels like it, that is about it.


Did ronaldo showboat this season too much? Sure he did showboat a bit, but his stepovers, feints, and flicks actually did help the team and him, unlike in MU where he did excessive showboating. In fact he is becoming efficient so fast it is scary. Same with messi, I will admit.

Ronaldo not a team player? Bull. 12 assists for the frontman says otherwise. I admit assists aren't really an indicator of selfishness. But messi was just as selfish this season. Let's remember messi has the best midfield in the world, one of the greatest in history, and 2 forwards that are arguably the best finishers in the world. Yes, I honestly think that pedro is an excellent finisher, if you were wondering. But ronaldo has not been as selfish as some people say, sure he takes too long to pass at times but so does di maria, I don't see anyone calling him selfish. People like the person in the article have some sort of inferiority complex when asked about ronaldo. Saddening really.

54 goals. Show me someone who can score that in a season besides messi.
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Post by FilipeFerreira on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:30 pm

Ronaldo doesnt track back ,because hes told not to track back. In games they need him to track back he does (Espanyol game) 10v11 for 80 mins, he tracked back all kinds).

Some of the arguments used in this thread are pathetic.

Hes too selfish, he doesn't track back, wow.

Whoever wrote that article is a messi fanboy, it's funny how he failed to mention messi fuming and crying on the bench when Guardiola didn't play him the last 2 or 3 games of la liga.

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Post by stunt on Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:58 pm

This team isnt built towards ronaldo, it can play decently well without him, but it cant challenge Barca without him. It will completely fail in the league and lose a very important x factor in important games if he isnt there. To make a team comparable to your current one, you would have to find a new very good goalscorer (there are a few) but worse, you would have to build the team around that new guy, making the team be completely dependant of him, much more than it is dependant of ronaldo right now.

Want an example? Watch the manchester of the 09/10 season, where in order to replace ronaldo the team resorted to rooney. Worked fine, rooney scored a big bunch of goals. The following season? When rooney couldnt keep the form of his previous season? Manchester had a very bad start to the league, they had to adapt to a new style not as based on rooney mid-season because he couldnt repeat the previous season.

If Real Madrid faced a similar crysis the league would be lost in a month, Barca dont let that much points slip, on the contrary to the top EPL clubs.

And even if you found other goalscorers, there is no one currently who can score as much as ronaldo (neymar? lukaku? even if they will be any good when they get older, now they are just kids).

This is Real Madrid, it cant afford to be dependant of anybody, but it cant also affort to be 20 points below barca aswell, so it needs a goalscorer.


What Real needs right now is a better midfield and defence, the attack is fine. Maybe sahin is enough, maybe not.


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Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:02 pm

I am too lazy to read everyone's comments, but I am not too opposed to selling CR. We played our best match of the season WITHOUT CR and he somewhat hinders other players in their development.

If we could get an absurd fee for him, I'd say sell, if it is anything less than 150 million, keep.

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Post by stunt on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:03 pm

@Guiltybystander wrote:I am too lazy to read everyone's comments, but I am not too opposed to selling CR. We played our best match of the season WITHOUT CR and he somewhat hinders other players in their development.

If we could get an absurd fee for him, I'd say sell, if it is anything less than 150 million, keep.

Is that so?

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Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:06 pm

@stunt wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:I am too lazy to read everyone's comments, but I am not too opposed to selling CR. We played our best match of the season WITHOUT CR and he somewhat hinders other players in their development.

If we could get an absurd fee for him, I'd say sell, if it is anything less than 150 million, keep.

Is that so?

IMO, the 3-1 against Racing Santander.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:14 pm

@stunt wrote:
This team isnt built towards ronaldo, it can play decently well without him, but it cant challenge Barca without him. It will completely fail in the league and lose a very important x factor in important games if he isnt there. To make a team comparable to your current one, you would have to find a new very good goalscorer (there are a few) but worse, you would have to build the team around that new guy, making the team be completely dependant of him, much more than it is dependant of ronaldo right now.

Want an example? Watch the manchester of the 09/10 season, where in order to replace ronaldo the team resorted to rooney. Worked fine, rooney scored a big bunch of goals. The following season? When rooney couldnt keep the form of his previous season? Manchester had a very bad start to the league, they had to adapt to a new style not as based on rooney mid-season because he couldnt repeat the previous season.

If Real Madrid faced a similar crysis the league would be lost in a month, Barca dont let that much points slip, on the contrary to the top EPL clubs.

And even if you found other goalscorers, there is no one currently who can score as much as ronaldo (neymar? lukaku? even if they will be any good when they get older, now they are just kids).

This is Real Madrid, it cant afford to be dependant of anybody, but it cant also affort to be 20 points below barca aswell, so it needs a goalscorer.

you are making strange claims such as:"it completely fails without him". That is just not true. Ronaldo was underperforming mid season, he wasnt scoring, and benzema and ozil took over. Last season he spent a while out on injury and we coped very well.

so far, ronaldo hasnt been an x factor against barcelona at all, if anything, they have been able to shut him down quite well so far, if we look at all the 7 clasicos. So i ask you, which x factor? the goal in final doesnt qualify as such.

we are more than able to challenge barcelona without ronaldo in the team, people believe what they want, and i certainly dont think that statement is correct. Teams have been able to beat barcelona and give them a lot to worry about in the CL and in the league, and i dont remember them having a player like Ronaldo. Team play is the best answer you can give to barcelona, ronaldo certainly enhance us, but if he leaves, it would not diminish us. If he was putting one man shows destroying barcelona everytime we play them then i would be agreeing with you but it's not the case.

If Ronaldo leaves your team, you dont look for a player for player replacement, you restructure your team around a deeper and more organized midfield. Man utd barely invested in their squad to match ronaldo's departure, but they still managed to pull through. It's a mistake to run your system around a forward. This year they turned into park the bus and counter team, with supreme defense and that's how they went far. you dont replace him, you restructure, no one can replace him, it's obvious. but teams have been winning since the dawn of times without a ronaldo like player in their teams, that's my point.

Again, Ronaldo stopped scoring at some point in the second half, he had a difficult time, his form dropped, and Benzema, Ozil, Marcelo, etc picked it up.

So no, again, if you sell ronaldo, you dont look for a player per player replacement, it's a silly thing to do, you reorganize and you give a deeper importance to your midfield.

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Post by I-no on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:20 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you reorganize and you give a deeper importance to your midfield.
deeper importance to midfield? bounce
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:22 pm

I agree that we can still compete without Ronaldo but really no player in the world could have done a better job than Ronaldo in the classicos because he barely got the ball in any of them. Blame Jose for CR7 under performing.
Next season if we go attacking then watch Ronaldo destroy them Smile.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:25 pm

@I-no wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you reorganize and you give a deeper importance to your midfield.
deeper importance to midfield? bounce

yes, meaning you put guys like Sahin, Ozil, new playmaker Twisted Evil , more importance, you make the football run by them first.

ronaldo very often is our first attacking outlet, but we all know that the more alonso touches the ball, the cleaner and more organized we look.

Dortmund dominated the Bundesliga this season because Sahin ran the show from deep within. Barcelona is dong it, Villarreal etc...

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Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:38 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:I agree that we can still compete without Ronaldo but really no player in the world could have done a better job than Ronaldo in the classicos because he barely got the ball in any of them. Blame Jose for CR7 under performing.
Next season if we go attacking then watch Ronaldo destroy them Smile.

TBF, CR messed up badly during the CDR final, he only redeemed himself with scoring the winner.

I think Real Madrid should move to a new form of midfield play, moving to an essentially striker-less formation. Ronaldo doesn't really fit in that model imo. I agree with Nick in that. Players like Ozil and Alonso in the midfield and also Benzema etc. do not benefit from the presence of a CR. It is his individual class that makes him valuable, but I wonder if that offsets the "harm" he does to RM's overall game.

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Post by FilipeFerreira on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:44 pm

Too many people in this thread expect ronaldo to be like messi. They want him to score when he gets the ball and make it happen.

Heres the difference.

Ronaldo doesn't get the service or delivery that messi gets in his team.

RM sends me long balls, and passes that are wide open, and they expect him to plow through 3 players and score. Give him good chances like messi gets from his team, and he will score.

When Real Madrid's defense and mid field is up to par with Barcelonas, and ronaldo gets similar service, and ronaldo hardly scores and plays badly, than this thread will have big meaning, but until than this thread is retarded in my mind.

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Post by alex mahone on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:45 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Team play is the best answer you can give to barcelona,

+1 for that Smile
But I hope we can do that with ronaldo in the team
Or if ronaldo leave some day and we have replacement like him, i hope we can still do that too
I mean, I hope the solution is not getting rid of the player like ronaldo or avoiding buying player like ronaldo, but making them work in the system

What I don't like about having ronaldo is the fact that he's treated above the team, for ex: he can't be benched even if underperformed, I really wish a player like ronaldo also could be treated just like the rest of team Rolling Eyes


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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:56 pm

@FilipeFerreira wrote:Too many people in this thread expect ronaldo to be like messi. They want him to score when he gets the ball and make it happen.

Heres the difference.

Ronaldo doesn't get the service or delivery that messi gets in his team.

RM sends me long balls, and passes that are wide open, and they expect him to plow through 3 players and score. Give him good chances like messi gets from his team, and he will score.

When Real Madrid's defense and mid field is up to par with Barcelonas, and ronaldo gets similar service, and ronaldo hardly scores and plays badly, than this thread will have big meaning, but until than this thread is retarded in my mind.

you are deflecting. First of, no one is expecting or comparing him with messi. I dont think whenever we talk about one we have to make the comparison. If you think we are, take some time and explain us why, because you didnt, so i would consider that a non argument for now. you are free to comeback to it if you wish.

Now, Ronaldo gets good service when he relinquishes the ball to Ozil, Alonso etc... maybe we arent playing through balls at the level at which barca does, but it's not like Ronaldo makes runs behind the defense either, it goes both way.

Consider also the fact that Ronaldo likes to hug to ball with real madrid, even more so than Messi if you want the comparison. He makes him self the first passing option in attack as he asks the ball a lot. It's part of his persona and the way he plays.

The comparison you make doesnt work well imo. Messi on the ball is a better playmaker than ronaldo to begin with, and when playing with barca, he doesnt hug the ball as much as ronaldo, he is disciplined in letting the others set him up and releasing the ball quick to set up the others; and to receive good service, you have to make yourself available, and messi makes better runs than ronaldo.

We criticized benzema a lot for not making runs like Higuain, well this is the same thing with ROnaldo, he likes to be on the ball, dribble and then shoot.

and how many goals did ronaldo score out of Ozil's pass? marcelo's?


Last edited by St_Nick09_of_Goal on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by alex mahone on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:56 pm

@FilipeFerreira wrote:
Ronaldo doesn't get the service or delivery that messi gets in his team.

RM sends me long balls, and passes that are wide open, and they expect him to plow through 3 players and score. Give him good chances like messi gets from his team, and he will score.

I don't really get that :?:
I remember many undermining ronaldo's goals compare to messi's because they said a lot of them were tap in goals
isn't he must have had decent service to be able to score such tap in goals?


Last edited by alex mahone on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by The Madrid One on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:59 pm

ya, if people say he doesnt get service, i call it an excuse, and anyways goals dont define a player solely.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:03 pm

@Guiltybystander wrote:
@EarlyPrototype wrote:I agree that we can still compete without Ronaldo but really no player in the world could have done a better job than Ronaldo in the classicos because he barely got the ball in any of them. Blame Jose for CR7 under performing.
Next season if we go attacking then watch Ronaldo destroy them Smile.

TBF, CR messed up badly during the CDR final, he only redeemed himself with scoring the winner.

I think Real Madrid should move to a new form of midfield play, moving to an essentially striker-less formation. Ronaldo doesn't really fit in that model imo. I agree with Nick in that. Players like Ozil and Alonso in the midfield and also Benzema etc. do not benefit from the presence of a CR. It is his individual class that makes him valuable, but I wonder if that offsets the "harm" he does to RM's overall game.

I don't really think he messed up in the final, he missed one good chance the rest were half chances but in the end he got us the winner. If you look at the first leg semi we defended with 11 men all Ronaldo could do is chase the ball tbf and forget Benzema going into midfield.
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