Re: Kroos, the Sniper

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:40 pm

Iceman wrote:
babun1024 wrote:
Bayern didn't miss Robben against napoli or Man Sh!tty... Also, he has to win games, the pressure at Bayern is like at any big club he has to fill in for Muller or Robbery in three positions all the time and always perform Ramsey plays CAM only
Look, midfielders learn to make better decisions with more experience/ age but the speed at which they make those doesn't increase by a lot past 18-19y. It's a fundamental problem. Ramsey is cool when given space and time but put him in a cramped space in Bayern midfield for example and he'd simply suck (AM, CAM)
Wilshere wouldn't because he thinks a whole lot faster Why does he flourish with RVP? RVP draws defenders away, that's why= more space
Also, Kroos regarded as not so good He is regarded widely as Ballack's heir starting from u17 level (4 years passed...) I hated Bayern for benching him for one year, they almost ruined him

He has to win games, but he has a lot of great players around him that take the pressure away. If Bayern lose or don't get the results, Kroos wouldn't be the one criticized while at Arsenal, at least at the start of the season, it was all about how Ramsey is now back and should lead us to winning games thus he had more pressure.
Also, like Sushi said, last year Kroos was pretty much crap and that was not a result of anything. So to compare him to current Ramsey, who only recently started to truly come back to his pre-injury form, and assume that it's a fair comparison is not true. Compare them at their best, i.e. Ramsey in 09/10 season, not now.

And wasn't RVP playing at the start of the seasons? Why didn't Ramsey flourish then, since RVP was taking away defenders and all? Why did it take a month and a half before he started performing? It isn't coincidental that it was about the time that players like Koscielny, Arteta, Song, RVP and Gervinho started taking away the pressure from him and performing well.
As previously mentioned, Ramsey performed well in tight spaces in the 09/10 season. If you had bothered to see any of the videos, you'd see Ramsey getting out of situations where he was surrounded by 3, 4 and even 5 players at the same time. You'd see him attracting players towards him, and then playing a through ball that splits the defense wide open. He does not have poor decision making, he was only lacking in confidence.

Against Chelsea, was he given any room? No, not at all, but he twisted and turned, made space for himself and played a great through-ball for Gervinho which lead to our equalizer. That's a player who did well in tight spaces, not just open space.

So you mean Ramsey and Wilshere where the ones caring Arsenal last season, what pressure are you talking about...?

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:43 pm

I am not going to say anything but Kroos is not on thesame level with Wilshere and Ramsey.

As for now let me compare their stats

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:23 pm

2008
Stats--------------------Aaron Ramsey----------vs---------------------Kroos.
Appearance-------------24-------------------------------------------------21---
Goals--------------------1--------------------------------------------------2----
Assist-------------------3---------------------------------------------------2----
All competition including international(Ramsey had 1 international appearance Kroos none)

2009-10
Stats--------------------Aaron Ramsey----------vs---------------------Kroos.
Appearance-------------36-------------------------------------------------35---
Goals--------------------6--------------------------------------------------9----
Assist-------------------4---------------------------------------------------9----
All competition including international(Ramsey had 4 international appearance Kroos again none)

2010-11
Stats--------------------Aaron Ramsey----------vs---------------------Kroos.
Appearance-------------19----------------------------------------------47------
Goals---------------------2-------------------------------------------------2----
Assist--------------------1--------------------------------------------------5----
(Ramsey was injured, better still Kroos again had a better season, although the entire Bayern squad played badly this season including Schweini, made 6 appearance in world cup, Ramsey made no appearance, Also Ramsey was on loan to Nottingham Forest and Cardiff, so I dont get the pressure you guys are about, the Stats also includes his appearance with those 2 division 2 teams)

2011-12
Stats--------------------Aaron Ramsey----------vs---------------------Kroos.
Appearance-------------22----------------------------------------------21------
Goals---------------------5-------------------------------------------------3----
Assist--------------------4--------------------------------------------------6----

Kroos has far more greater responsibility in Bayern than Ramsey, his competing with top players like Muller, Schweini, Robben and Ribery. Goals and assist don't really reflect the type of players he his or show you his worth, you have to watch him to appreciate his worth, his always there to control games, a Xavi like midfielder who does much more than scoring goals and providing assist, but even with that he has beaten Ramsey hands down when you compare their career Stats....Had more goals, more appearance, has played in 2 top clubs like Bayern and Leverkusen, while Ramsey was on loan to weak teams and weak leagues like Cardiff and N-Forest, Kroos has also played in far more competitive Tournaments like Bundesliga top flight, Uefa Champions league, Europa Cup, European Cup qualifiers and most importantly the master of all tournaments WORLD CUP and still he has better Stats than Ramsey...

As for Wilshere I am not going to compare him to Toni Kroos he just started, lets wait for 2 more season then we can compare him to Felix Kroos

by rwo power Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:35 pm

Well, Ramsey has a big disadvantage playing for Wales, so it is much more difficult for him to enter a WC or EC final round. In that respect, German players who manage to get into the German NT are always a bit luckier because they can shine on the biggest stages.

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:43 pm

rwo power wrote:Well, Ramsey has a big disadvantage playing for Wales, so it is much more difficult for him to enter a WC or EC final round. In that respect, German players who manage to get into the German NT are always a bit luckier because they can shine on the biggest stages.

You have forgotten when playing for Germany you have the disadvantage of having a far more tougher challenge for first team spot or even getting called up because Germany has much more better and experience players, the honest question you should ask yourself is will Ramsey make it into Germany starting eleven or even get called up..?

by Sushi Master Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:50 pm

He'd definitely get called up, due to Loew's insane rotation.

If you think we can't rate Wilshere right now, then the same would be said of Ramsey. He only had half a season till he broke his leg, lost most of last one due to injury and is only peaking form right now.

Kroos is far more experienced than any of these guys. I said potential wise I see them about equal. Right now Kroos is better, obviously.

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:53 pm

Sushi Master wrote:He'd definitely get called up, due to Loew's insane rotation.

If you think we can't rate Wilshere right now, then the same would be said of Ramsey. He only had half a season till he broke his leg, lost most of last one due to injury and is only peaking form right now.

Kroos is far more experienced than any of these guys. I said potential wise I see them about equal. Right now Kroos is better, obviously.

I dont see Ramsey getting called up for Germany, any honest person will agree with me.

by Iceman Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:13 pm

Bringing up statistics that show that both players are on par right now in their career. It's obvious that the one who had a leg break that kept him out for a year would not be as good as the one who didn't, no?
But the current statistics show that they are both on the same level. Now, lets see you get statistics of tackles, interceptions, ground covered and pass success %. You'll see that Ramsey is on top.

Ramsey plays for Wales, is it really his fault that they can't do much on the International stage? Ramsey could make it into the German squad, and any unbiased person would agree that he would have gotten a call up at the very least.

Just because your opinion is biased doesn't make it right :facepalm:

by Geo Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:41 pm

So, WTF Arsenal players have to do with this thread?

I will not comment, Until Arsenal actaully win something other than the Emirates Cup. It's been 7 years FFS!
And the players get the same hype every year..

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:47 pm

Emmm why is this Thread about Kroos on My right back section...?

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:48 pm

Iceman wrote:Bringing up statistics that show that both players are on par right now in their career. It's obvious that the one who had a leg break that kept him out for a year would not be as good as the one who didn't, no?
But the current statistics show that they are both on the same level. Now, lets see you get statistics of tackles, interceptions, ground covered and pass success %. You'll see that Ramsey is on top.

Ramsey plays for Wales, is it really his fault that they can't do much on the International stage? Ramsey could make it into the German squad, and any unbiased person would agree that he would have gotten a call up at the very least.

Just because your opinion is biased doesn't make it right

Those are Kroos specialist.. Kroos will absolutely destroy him on those one, why dont you check it up and paste it here..

By the way there is no point in comparing Kroos with Ramsey, they are not on thesame level. I wouldn't have replied if not Sushi master

by RealGunner Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:23 pm

Idrisozet wrote:Emmm why is this Thread about Kroos on My right back section...?

i think you missed the posts in the last 3 pages?

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:38 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:Emmm why is this Thread about Kroos on My right back section...?

i think you missed the posts in the last 3 pages?

How about the purpose of the thread, until Arsenal fan invaded it.. Very Happy

by Geo Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:44 pm

He's right RG.

The purpose of the thread was not comparing players..

Instead of moving the thread to right back section.. you can cut the debate and give some warnings Very Happy

by The Messiah Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:15 pm

Geo wrote:He's right RG.

The purpose of the thread was not comparing players..

Instead of moving the thread to right back section.. you can cut the debate and give some warnings

Bayern87 aught to be a moderator representing Bayern in this Forum.

There was a time a made a thread tilled Madrid fans and the admin locked it and removed it, but there was a thread tattled Bayern Fans recently no one did anything about it even after my complaint.

So we need at least one Bayern Admin, so I feel like we're being treated like 2nd class citizens

Moreover there is already a thread on rightback section comparing Kroos, Wilshere and Ramsey. I have no ideal why they didn't go and compare both players there.

by Babun Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:38 pm

No problem chaps, I can relaunch threads at will at any time eco smile

Mods aren't tehre to be ordered around. next time, I'll make sure to report any side tracking though eco smile

by Geo Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:12 am

I will add one more video to this thread.
Assist to Götze, vs Brazil

by RedOranje Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:05 pm

A thread is more than just the original post/intent. As it evolves and grows it can become necessary to move it to this section if the topic shifts to comparison of players/clubs/leagues. Rather, you should all probably be glad RG didn't remove your posts/lock the thread for breaking other rules, rather than arguing/complaining.

by Iceman Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:41 pm

Kroos is the next Arteta. They do the same thing, except that Kroos is a bit better offensively while Arteta is way more tactically aware and a lot better at defending and has a better work-rate.

Will be interesting to see Kroos develop.

by Abramovich Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:45 pm

Iceman wrote:

Just because your opinion is biased doesn't make it right

BAHAHAHA irony Heart

by EarlyPrototype Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:48 pm

Kroos is alsready as good as Arteta if not better.

by Iceman Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:55 pm

I'm talking in terms of roles. They both have the same roles in the team; the role you don't really notice but really carried the team.

Arteta is a lot better defensively: Better work-rate, better tackling, better positioning, more physical and a better tactical understanding.
Kroos is better in attacking. More creative, better shooting etc.

Don't think Kroos is all that better. Since Arteta joined Arsenal, he has become great :bow:

by The Messiah Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:26 pm

Iceman wrote:I'm talking in terms of roles. They both have the same roles in the team; the role you don't really notice but really carried the team.

Arteta is a lot better defensively: Better work-rate, better tackling, better positioning, more physical and a better tactical understanding.
Kroos is better in attacking. More creative, better shooting etc.

Don't think Kroos is all that better. Since Arteta joined Arsenal, he has become great

Kroos is nothing like Arteta, not even close.

Kroos is better than Arteta, arteta wouldn't make it into Germany National team or Bayern Munich starting eleven.

You really do under-rate Kroos, don't you...?

by Iceman Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:18 pm

You don't watch Arteta, so you don't have any right to comment so as to who is better than the other.
Their roles are similar :facepalm:

by Sushi Master Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:37 pm

Arteta if you're comparing him to someone, compare him to Schweinsteiger since they are playing very similar roles.

Schwein's god, but Arteta has been awesome, too.

Kroos doesn't have the tactical know how to play in a deep role, IMO. He can be a great link between defense and attack, but defensively he suffers. He's clearly better in an advanced role where his shooting is also a lot more involved. In a deeper role Arteta is clearly better.

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