Juve, past and present...

First of all, I wish if we dont use this thread as an oppurtunity to troll on any club, or bash any. All I will do is provide FACTS going back from late 60s till present, I wont put much light on scandals since it has been discussed to the bone.
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Instead I will just discuss transfer activities, and what effect it had on other clubs. It will be mostly about how do Juventus build up their teams. Has it really been about Italy for them? Or is it always Juve first? Have they really given more to Italian football or have they taken more? Does winning the most domestic trophies make the "Italys' pride", or is it the most "International" trophies, or what does "Italy pride" mean?

For me it means producing the best Italian talents, helping the league and the NT to be as competetive as possible, not ripping smaller clubs of their stars then claiming "my club" has the most representators in the NT, making Italian football proud on the international level, not the domestic level, thats why its called "ITALY's Pride" as far as I am concerned Juventus can call themselves "Turins Pride", the "Piedmont Pride", but Italy's pride with 2 CL the last one being dated to 96??? Common thats a stretch.
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I'll start by pointing out some of the succesfull eras in Juventus' history and try to see how those teams were built:

Juve's 71-72, 72-73 Serie A winning squad:
During the 50s Juve had a wonderfull run winnig 3 Serie A, one coppa, nothing on the international level, after 61 Juve was far from winning anything one serie A title, their squad was ageing, other teams were rising, and something had to be done about it, so the plan was set a new team has to be essembled and it should be done qucik. The fastest, easiest, and best way for the managment is to go for a shopping spree (Man City style), OK then three options are available:
1) To go out and scout for non-Italian talents, but thats not possible for Juve since they are non-Italians.
2) To go out and get some Italian un-known talents and groom them to WC players, but that needs time, to turn fruitfull.
3) To bully smaller clubs for their best players that are already proven.

So this is what Juve did:

1) 1968 Juve sign the German stricker Helmut Haller form Bologna, the previosu season Bologna finished 5th, the following it dropped to 9th.

2) 1968 Juve sign Anastasi from Varese, Varese dropped from 7th to 14th.

3) 1969 Juve spotted Cuccureddu from newly promoted Brescia, and signed him, Berscia went back from where the came from.

4) 1969 Juve sign Palermo player Furino, Palermo dropped from 11th to relegation. That meant good news for Juve since they can approach the remaining stars of Palermo easier which happened the following season.

5) 1969 Juve sign Morini from Sampdoria.

6) 1970 Juve sign star winger Franco Causio from Palermo.

7) 1970 Juve sign Atalanta star Novellini

1970 Juve sign Roma star Capello.

9) 1970 Juve sign Spinosi from Roma

10) In 1970 Varese once again suffer for the transfer market and dropped form 9th to last after Juve succesfull capture of GK Carmignani.

11) 1971 Longobucco was signed from Ternana.

12) Dino Zoff signed from Napoli in 1972

13) Altafini a world class stricker signed from Napoli in 1972.

One Juve youth product was availale in the starting XI of that team, Roberto Bettega.

The 80s domination is next........

baresi wrote:First of all, I wish if we dont use this thread as an oppurtunity to troll on any club, or bash any. All I will do is provide FACTS going back from late 60s till present

6) 1970 Juve sign star winger Franco Causio from Palermo.

"Causio was born in Lecce (Puglia), and moved to Juventus when he was 17. After some years on loan in Serie B (playing in Reggina and Palermo), he returned to Juventus in 1970."

Fact's my left testicle.

As for the rest. Good god. Gnawing of this level I have never seen.

:{Mr.Mustachio! wrote:

baresi wrote:First of all, I wish if we dont use this thread as an oppurtunity to troll on any club, or bash any. All I will do is provide FACTS going back from late 60s till present

6) 1970 Juve sign star winger Franco Causio from Palermo.

"Causio was born in Lecce (Puglia), and moved to Juventus when he was 17. After some years on loan in Serie B (playing in Reggina and Palermo), he returned to Juventus in 1970."

Fact's my left testicle.

As for the rest. Good god. Gnawing of this level I have never seen.

I advice you to look for any other source, dont always rely on WIKI, Giovinco is Franco Causio v.2.
I guess you left testicle is a myth after all.

Baresi Wish I knew more about Italian football history...

where are the 80s? *popcorn*

baresi wrote:

:{Mr.Mustachio! wrote:

baresi wrote:First of all, I wish if we dont use this thread as an oppurtunity to troll on any club, or bash any. All I will do is provide FACTS going back from late 60s till present

6) 1970 Juve sign star winger Franco Causio from Palermo.

"Causio was born in Lecce (Puglia), and moved to Juventus when he was 17. After some years on loan in Serie B (playing in Reggina and Palermo), he returned to Juventus in 1970."

Fact's my left testicle.

As for the rest. Good god. Gnawing of this level I have never seen.

I advice you to look for any other source, dont always rely on WIKI, Giovinco is Franco Causio v.2.
I guess you left testicle is a myth after all.

May I advise you to look for another source, primarily one that isn't your ass.

"The ‘Baron’ represented the Bianconeri for twelve seasons (from 1970/71 until 1980/81, along with season 1967/68 in which he featured just once). He made 447 appearances and an important contribution in winning six titles, a UEFA Cup and a Coppa Italia."

From Juventus.com, which seems to reiterate the point that he was only on loan before rejoining for season 70/71.

Seriously what is the point of this other than to troll? It's blatant defamation of Juventus as a football club. The cancer of Italian football? I mean really...Not even Wigglesworth, god rest his soul, would say such a utterly stupid thing.

Your attempt at a conspiracy theory is actually hilarious.

He was sold when Juve thought he was no good, then rebought when he started shining, just like Giovinco. Dont you get it. And no conspiracy theory here its all facts.

Actually, why dont you go an search for when was the "loan of players" rule out, maybe then you will be convinced by what I am saying.

I did'nt say it was the cancer of Italy.

.... and the quote you provided did'nt say he was loaned out.
As a matter of fact it says he played for Juve from 1970-71 to 80-81.

And that is exactly what I said.

No you said we signed him from Palermo. He was not pillaged from them in the way you are trying to suggest.

But even so, Is it not inconsequential either way, he was signed from a Serie B side. El Sharawaay was so key to Padova...and if they finish three places lower this season?

The Cancer of Italy; Your thread subtitle is as follows : "Juve the pride, Bride or Cancer...of Italy" From what you wrote in your first post I gather you believe is far from the Pride of Italy and certainly not marriage material...so I'm left to assume you are hinting we are 'the cancer' am I not?

Giovinco was not sold to Parma, But entered into co-ownership. Juventus is one of the worlds biggest teams it waits for no man; no matter how talented, no matter if he is in all probability the most naturally talented player our academy has ever produced.. He was loaned (again) to gain further experience. We have done it with many players in the past. As Giampiero Boniperti once said "At Juventus winning is not important...it's all that matters"

It's very common in Italy Milan do it, Inter do it, Napoli do it, Roma do it...Serie B clubs, Lega Pro clubs. They all do it just the same. I see the point you are trying to make but it needs discussion.

Discussion I'm up for, no matter how touchy the subject, even Helenio Herrera's 'coffee' since the Interista's are circling.

The problem is this thread is you dictating the facts, as you see them, to the detriment of my club (for whatever reason beyond my knowledge and frankly I don't give two sh**'s why), despite you saying otherwise it's an attack on a set of fans.

So, if you wanted to argue this 'trend' or whatever you believe it is, maybe the way you worded this was not optimal.

I wait with baited breath for your exposé's on other clubs.





I haven't glanced at this forum in way over a month. Not quite sure what's happened round here since I last posted

Pathetic attempt to malign the decorated history of La Juve, anyway, here is your answer, read and sleep with it.


By Kris Voakes | Italian Football Editor

Even during the international break, Juventus’ positive start to the new season has continued. Sitting top of Serie A after five games, the subject of countless positive reviews in the media, and full of hope for a long overdue Scudetto push to come, there has been no let-up in the good news coming out of Turin. The reason? It’s the club’s renaissance as the driving force behind the Italian national squad just a few months before the Azzurri head for the Euro 2012 finals.


Having won seven and drawn two of their nine qualifying matches so far, Italy take on Northern Ireland in Pescara on Tuesday looking to complete a near-perfect campaign, and they do so with a growing band of inclusions from the Vinovo club. Andrea Barzagli’s recall to the national side meant that Friday’s draw in Serbia was achieved with six Juventus players in the starting XI.




It is far from a new phenomenon for a country to call upon a large number of stars from a single club, and Italy themselves have quite the history – particularly in relation to Juventus – and it has proven to be a winning formula for them in the past.

The Azzurri’s first-ever World Cup win in 1934 came in the middle of a run of five straight Scudetti for the Turin side, and the likes of Giovanni Ferrari, Raimundo Orsi and Umberto Caligaris were among a nine-strong band of Juve players in the 22-man squad which triumphed on home soil under Vittorio Pozzo. Four years later, Italy grabbed a second world title immediately after the Bianconeri had added a Coppa Italia win to their roll of honour. The 1930s remains the second most successful decade in the club’s history.
ITALJUVE
How Juventus' successes have translated to the Azzurri
1934
Italy - world champions
9 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Serie A winners 1930-31, 31-32, 32-33, 33-34
1938
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
3 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Serie A winners 1966-67
1982
Italy - world champions
6 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Serie A winners 1980-81, 1981-82
2006
Italy - world champions
5 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Serie A winners 2004-05, 2005-06*
*titles later revoked
And it didn’t end there. The additional World Cup wins in 1982 and 2006 were both achieved after back-to-back Juventus titles, with a total of 11 Bianconeri – including names such as Dino Zoff, Paolo Rossi, Gianluigi Buffon and Alessandro Del Piero – being added to the list of Italian medal winners. Throw in the Scudetto won by the club a year before their 1968 European Championships victory and there is quite a history to speak of. It has proven enough for the moniker ‘ItalJuve’ to be coined for successful Azzurri outfits.

The latest wave of Juve call-ups have perhaps naturally evoked memories of the successful national squads of the past, especially in the defensive half of the pitch. With nine defenders and three goalkeepers among their 22 World Cup winners – and all three of their European champions having come from the backline – the inclusions of Buffon, Barzagli, Leonardo Bonucci, Giorgio Chiellini are a particular reminder of successful ‘ItalJuve’ teams of yesteryear.

But it is perhaps in midfield where there is a particular renaissance, with Andrea Pirlo’s influence on his new club being replicated in Belgrade on Friday, while Claudio Marchisio’s first-minute goal was his fourth in all competitions this season – and his third in nine minutes following his late double against AC Milan last week.

The Turin club’s near-constant attempts to build an Italian heart to their side are perhaps always going to result in a heavy influence in the national setup, but the parallels of success are clearly not coincidental. And the current Juventus team could well be the main driving force behind a challenge for a second European crown for La Nazionale next summer.

While Italy are not among one of the obvious favourites as things stand, the recipe for success is just about in place. And a continuation of Juve’s great start to the season will only have Italians dreaming even more.

To make it short and to go back on topic, back then there was nothing such as "loan" of players. The guy was sold and the bought back.

By the way there is a certain paragraph made me LMAO if that article on Juventus.com. I will point to it later, since it is very relevant to this thread.

hey Kayzar boy I wont dismiss the entire article because it was written by Kris, but just gimme some time and I'll show you how laughable what he wrote is.

"Due response" being goal.com article

My fav part:
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38




Italy won WC 2006, Inter won Coppa that season and season before, 04-05,05-06.
Italy won WC 1982, Inter won Coppa that season, 81-82.

Not to mention in 30s "After declining to participate in the first World Cup (1930, in Uruguay) the Italian national team won two consecutive editions of the tournament in 1934 and 1938, under the lead of coach Vittorio Pozzo and thanks to the genius of Giuseppe Meazza, who is considered one of the best Italian football players of all time."

How Inter successes have translated to the Azzurri. Shit i could write for Goal.com

CroInter wrote:"Due response" being goal.com article

My fav part:
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38




Italy won WC 2006, Inter won Coppa that season and season before.
Italy won WC 1982, Inter won Coppa that season.

Not to mention in 30s "After declining to participate in the first World Cup (1930, in Uruguay) the Italian national team won two consecutive editions of the tournament in 1934 and 1938, under the lead of coach Vittorio Pozzo and thanks to the genius of Giuseppe Meazza, who is considered one of the best Italian football players of all time."

How Inter successes have translated to the Azzurri. Shit i could write for Goal.com

What is laughable is out of the squad that won those two back-to-back world cup; you only mention Meazza when Juve had half of the two squads combined (9+2=11), not forgetting the fact your one and only hero that is Meazza also played for Milan and Juve , go figure that out before you come here with your pathetic facepalms

Keyzar wrote:

CroInter wrote:"Due response" being goal.com article

My fav part:
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38




Italy won WC 2006, Inter won Coppa that season and season before.
Italy won WC 1982, Inter won Coppa that season.

Not to mention in 30s "After declining to participate in the first World Cup (1930, in Uruguay) the Italian national team won two consecutive editions of the tournament in 1934 and 1938, under the lead of coach Vittorio Pozzo and thanks to the genius of Giuseppe Meazza, who is considered one of the best Italian football players of all time."

How Inter successes have translated to the Azzurri. Shit i could write for Goal.com

What is laughable is out of the squad that won those two back-to-back world cup; you only mention Meazza when Juve had half of the two squads combined (9+2=11), not forgetting the fact your one and only hero that is Meazza also played for Milan and Juve , go figure that out before you come here with your pathetic facepalms

Here is one more

You just cant help but being clueless?
Meazza spend 13 years in Inter, and during those years Italy won 2 WC when he was best, he later when he was old man came and spend a year in Juve and Milan, bonus one

Juve had 11 call ups in those years, Inter? 9, yes our only hero is Meazza

Unrelated question...Why is it always the left testicle?

bhends wrote:Unrelated question...Why is it always the left testicle?

I am assuming Mustachio is right handed and therefore considers everything left sided obselete and probably refuses to even use his left hand for anything.....

Probably why he wanted an ss instead of a lw in the summer and a cb instead of a lb........

GTFO you trolls, we are having some serouis shit debated here

CroInter wrote:

Keyzar wrote:

CroInter wrote:"Due response" being goal.com article

My fav part:
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38




Italy won WC 2006, Inter won Coppa that season and season before.
Italy won WC 1982, Inter won Coppa that season.

Not to mention in 30s "After declining to participate in the first World Cup (1930, in Uruguay) the Italian national team won two consecutive editions of the tournament in 1934 and 1938, under the lead of coach Vittorio Pozzo and thanks to the genius of Giuseppe Meazza, who is considered one of the best Italian football players of all time."

How Inter successes have translated to the Azzurri. Shit i could write for Goal.com

What is laughable is out of the squad that won those two back-to-back world cup; you only mention Meazza when Juve had half of the two squads combined (9+2=11), not forgetting the fact your one and only hero that is Meazza also played for Milan and Juve , go figure that out before you come here with your pathetic facepalms

Here is one more

You just cant help but being clueless?
Meazza spend 13 years in Inter, and during those years Italy won 2 WC when he was best, he later when he was old man came and spend a year in Juve and Milan, bonus one

Juve had 11 call ups in those years, Inter? 9, yes our only hero is Meazza

You can facepalm all the way to your grave for all i care,


Yeah you mentioned Meazza as the hero who won Italy those two world cups, and funny enough you take credit of him being an interista while he played for all the three big teams


Come to 1982 world cup truimph, we had Paolo Rossi who can be claimed to have won the cup for Italy single handedly, plus the legendary figures like Zoff, Scirea, Gentille and Cabrini.

Come to 2006 victory, we had ADP, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Buffon while you had Materazzi


What kind of debate do we have here? case closed, period

Keyzar wrote:

CroInter wrote:

Keyzar wrote:

CroInter wrote:"Due response" being goal.com article

My fav part:
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38




Italy won WC 2006, Inter won Coppa that season and season before.
Italy won WC 1982, Inter won Coppa that season.

Not to mention in 30s "After declining to participate in the first World Cup (1930, in Uruguay) the Italian national team won two consecutive editions of the tournament in 1934 and 1938, under the lead of coach Vittorio Pozzo and thanks to the genius of Giuseppe Meazza, who is considered one of the best Italian football players of all time."

How Inter successes have translated to the Azzurri. Shit i could write for Goal.com

What is laughable is out of the squad that won those two back-to-back world cup; you only mention Meazza when Juve had half of the two squads combined (9+2=11), not forgetting the fact your one and only hero that is Meazza also played for Milan and Juve , go figure that out before you come here with your pathetic facepalms

Here is one more

You just cant help but being clueless?
Meazza spend 13 years in Inter, and during those years Italy won 2 WC when he was best, he later when he was old man came and spend a year in Juve and Milan, bonus one

Juve had 11 call ups in those years, Inter? 9, yes our only hero is Meazza

You can facepalm all the way to your grave for all i care,


Yeah you mentioned Meazza as the hero who won Italy those two world cups, and funny enough you take credit of him being an interista while he played for all the three big teams


Come to 1982 world cup truimph, we had Paolo Rossi who can be claimed to have won the cup for Italy single handedly, plus the legendary figures like Zoff, Scirea, Gentille and Cabrini.

Come to 2006 victory, we had ADP, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Buffon while you had Materazzi


What kind of debate do we have here? case closed, period

What a class A hypocrite.

So you take credit for Rossi who played 4 years in Juve and yet you dont give credit to Inter for Meazza who played 13 at Inter

Where did "Meazza as the hero who won Italy those two world cups" played during time of those WCs?

And Matrix, you mean the guy who scored most important goal on that tournament?

@ Bhends: I have not the foggiest. But it made me sound more cockney.

@Mhole: Maybe you assumed correct, to be honest I've never thought about it that deeply. Gold star for you

Ps: I just didn't wan't as many LW's, Giak and Esti for be was solid enough. I'd have waited untill January to look at adding another (if needed). Elia to me is a expensive and unnecessary luxury, but I hope I'm wrong.

@ Cro: You tell it as it is, maybe you can help

What I'm struggling with is why Juventus buying the best talent available to them is so deplorable. I mean is that not what Bayern have always done, United?

I also have this really nagging feeling that possibly the best example of what Baresi is getting at involves Juve only in a very loose sense. Cassano and Pazzini.

Or does that one not count?

CroInter wrote:

Keyzar wrote:

CroInter wrote:

Keyzar wrote:

CroInter wrote:"Due response" being goal.com article

My fav part:
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38
1968 Italy - Euro champions
Italy - world champions
2 Juve call-ups
Juventus - Coppa Italia winners 1937-38




Italy won WC 2006, Inter won Coppa that season and season before.
Italy won WC 1982, Inter won Coppa that season.

Not to mention in 30s "After declining to participate in the first World Cup (1930, in Uruguay) the Italian national team won two consecutive editions of the tournament in 1934 and 1938, under the lead of coach Vittorio Pozzo and thanks to the genius of Giuseppe Meazza, who is considered one of the best Italian football players of all time."

How Inter successes have translated to the Azzurri. Shit i could write for Goal.com

What is laughable is out of the squad that won those two back-to-back world cup; you only mention Meazza when Juve had half of the two squads combined (9+2=11), not forgetting the fact your one and only hero that is Meazza also played for Milan and Juve , go figure that out before you come here with your pathetic facepalms

Here is one more

You just cant help but being clueless?
Meazza spend 13 years in Inter, and during those years Italy won 2 WC when he was best, he later when he was old man came and spend a year in Juve and Milan, bonus one

Juve had 11 call ups in those years, Inter? 9, yes our only hero is Meazza

You can facepalm all the way to your grave for all i care,


Yeah you mentioned Meazza as the hero who won Italy those two world cups, and funny enough you take credit of him being an interista while he played for all the three big teams


Come to 1982 world cup truimph, we had Paolo Rossi who can be claimed to have won the cup for Italy single handedly, plus the legendary figures like Zoff, Scirea, Gentille and Cabrini.

Come to 2006 victory, we had ADP, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Buffon while you had Materazzi


What kind of debate do we have here? case closed, period

What a class A hypocrite.

So you take credit for Rossi who played 4 years in Juve and yet you dont give credit to Inter for Meazza who played 13 at Inter

Where did "Meazza as the hero who won Italy those two world cups" played during time of those WCs?

And Matrix, you mean the guy who scored most important goal on that tournament?

What a classic example of ''kettle calling the pot black'' we have here! seriously dude, i gave you full credit for Meazza, just wanted to remind the ''little fact'' that he also played for Milan and Juve


and now i can see your entire defense of the myth ''Inter contributes more to Azzuri than Juve'' has got confined and resorted to ''Mighty Materazzi''

:{Mr.Mustachio! wrote:
@ Cro: You tell it as it is, maybe you can help

What I'm struggling with is why Juventus buying the best talent available to them is so deplorable. I mean is that not what Bayern have always done, United?

I also have this really nagging feeling that possibly the best example of what Baresi is getting at involves Juve only in a very loose sense. Cassano and Pazzini.

Or does that one not count?

Well i know shit about 70s and what Juve did then so i cant talk about that

But as far as nowadays Juve getting talent from other Italian clubs, everyone does it, Juve is no worse or better at it then Inter or Milan.

up

Starting XI for Italy in 1986 Vs Poland
Zoff (c): Ex Napoli----> Juve capped before joining Juve
Gentile: Ex Varese-----> Juve
Collovati: Inter
Scirea: Ex Atalanta----> Juve
Cabrini: Ex Atalanta------> Juve
Antognoni: Fiorentina
Marini: Inter
Tardelli: Ex Como------> Juve
Conti: Roma
Graziani: Fiorentina
Rossi: Played for several teams before Juve capped before joining Juve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting XI vs Peru
1-1
Same starting line-up and Conti Roma player scored for Italy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting XI vs Cameron
1-1
Zoff (c) - Gentile, Collovati, Scirea, Cabrini - Antognoni, Oriali (Inter player),
Tardelli, Conti - Graziani, Rossi
Conti scores again for Italy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second round Italy vs Argentine
2-1
Same lineup as vs Poland
Altobelli came in as sub for Rossi (Inter player at that time)
Tardelli and Cabrini score
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Italy Vs Brazil
3-2
Same Line up
Bergomi (Inter player, youth product), came in for Collovati
Rossi scored a hat-trick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Semi vs Poland
2-0
Same line up.
Rossi scored twice
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fianl vs Germany
3-1
Rossi, Altobelli, Tardelli all scored.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I fail to see how Juve can be concidered a major reason behind the NT success, true they had 6 players, but NONE of them was a Juve product. Unlike Inter and Roma that had home grown players, and helped the team.

As I mentioned Juve go around buy Italian ready players.

Anyway you are ruining the 80s part, please if you have anything regarding the 70s lets discuss it, and the later will come. If you want we can also later go back to pre 60s.
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