OT: Spanish seleccion

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Post by futbol_bill Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:43 pm

I'm putting up this thread due to questions from Setablanca and others. Bascially they were asking why Enrique is never selected, why don't they select other players for the remaining games since they have already qualified for Euro, why most players are from Barcelona or Madrid and why doesn't Silva get to start.

The best Spanish players always end up in Barcelona or Real Madrid since they buy them as soon as they develop. Many believe the Spanish style is from Barcelona or Cruff, but the reality is it's a Spanish style now taught to youth all over Spain from age 4. What is Barcelona, is Xavi. He is the on field general or as you Americans call quarterback. He is the offensive director. Play starts upfield with CBs (Pique, Puyol) and deep MF (Busquets, Alonso or Javi Martinez) and then the general directs and organizes the play. MF's like Iniesta, Cesc, Cazlorla are outlets and kind of deep lying forwards. That's why Thiago is being giving some playing time since he is the closest in style to Xavi in all of Spain. I suppose the other alternative if Xavi is hurt or leaves (after Euro) is Valero.

VDB is going primarily with the same line-up as for the WC. He is going with what has worked and the only changes he is making is for aging / underperforming players. It is important to play hard and keep up momentum to get team ready for Euro. They will have the same approach to the friendlies that will follow this week's remaining euro qualifying games.

From the last WC team, the only players not currently in plans for Euro are Marchena, Capdevila (both out due to age) and Navas (injured). New players in (or back on squad) are Cazlorla, Negredo and Thiago.

There is one spot open for defense. VDB did bring up Botia and Dominquez (CBs from U23 team), but he seems to want to go with Ramos, Busquets or Javi Martinez for the back-up CB position, along with Albiol. This way, by using an existing roster player, he can go with 6 defense and use the 2 open spots for offense. For the LB position, he is inclined to use Arbeloa and is looking for a reserve LB. He has tried Monreal before and is currently looking at Jordi Alba.
I would suspect that Enrique is the other possibility. He will likely call him for some of the upcoming friendlies and then choose between the two by next June. I suspect Monreal is off the list unless he shows more at his club team. Montoya was also called up but they will save him for Olympic team unless both Ramos and Arbeloa get injured. The 2 young CB's are likely in the same situation if Puyol or Pique are injured.

For the mid-field, they are basically no openings. They have Busquets, Alonso, Javi Martinez, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc and Cazorla. Thiago will only get on squad if Xavi is hurt allowing him to play on Olympic team. They did play with 4 MF's in WC primarily because of the play of both Busquets and Alonso. I personally prefer them to play with only 3 since the 4 MF's allows for only 2 forwards. The likely line-up then would be Busquets or Alonso, Xavi and Iniesta or Cesc. If they do go with the 4 man MF both Alonso and Busquets will be there.

Up front, the only lock on a position is Villa at LW. For striker, they will have to select 2 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or possibly Soldado. Right now the pressure is on Torres (this is why he is starting today) to earn his spot, otherwise he will not be on team. Llorente also needs to impress as Soldado is burying up la liga right now and llorente still hasn't hit stride this year. For RW, there is Cesc or Iniesta available plus Silva, Mata, Pedro and possibly Navas. The decision for the extra attacker will come down to Navas or a 3rd stiker.

As to Silva not starting, well first off he is starting today and has started in 2 of the last 5 games. But in order to claim a starting spot in this team he has to be better than Pedro, Mata, Cesc which he does some times but they are all pretty darn good players.

So what we have been seen is the Euro team, barring injuries. One other consideration is the Olympic team (Olympic soccer starts 4 weeks after Euro is finished) for which Mata, Javi Martinez, Thiago, Montoya, Botia, Dominquez and even Cesc (they are allowed 2 players under 25) are eligible. They likely will not take Thiago, Botia , Dominquez and Montoya. The other 3 are too important to this team not to be selected yet they are desperately needed on Olympic team. Mata and Javi likely will play on both teams while I have doubts whether Cesc will.

Only decisions then are LB and who gets cut from forwards (2 of Torres, Llorente, Negredo, Soldado, Navas).


Last edited by futbol_bill on Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Magricos Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:20 pm

Silva has started the last few games besides the Italy match what are people talking about.

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Post by Onyx Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:24 pm

No need for an AM when there's already 3 other CM's starting.

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Post by futbol_bill Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:09 pm

mtfootball wrote:No need for an AM when there's already 3 other CM's starting.

I believe you are referring to Iniesta and Cesc. They both can play a forward position as well as CM. In spanish futbol, we don't have a CAM. Issue with these 2 guys is we want both in line-up (same issue Barcelona is having). Best is one at MF and the other as a foward (wing). In my opinion our line-up is best with Busquets or Alonso deep. Xavi and Iniesta in midfield and Cesc with Villa on wings.
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Post by S32TABLANCA Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:57 pm

BTW, I actually do follow the Spanish NT. Quite a lot. It may sound crazy to everyone else, but over here we all support foreign countries as well, and I support La Roja. So while I really appreciate the effort Bill, I do actually know most of the stuff. Very Happy

I find your imput very interesting though.
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Post by Onyx Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:02 pm

There's no need for Alonso. Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa and Torres should be the midfield and attack.


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Post by futbol_bill Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:08 pm

mtfootball wrote:There's no need for Alonso. Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa and Torres should be the midfield and attack.


Based on thus far today, Torres won't make team and Alonso will get to start. There is good chemistry between Xavi and Xabi. I don't think Pedro will get starts. I rank Cesc, Silva and Iniesta ahead of him. Mata is also making a good case for himself.
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Post by Onyx Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:22 pm

But the a striker shouldn't be replaced with a midfielder, he should be replaced with another striker.

Silva is more of a playmaker than a goalscorer. He shouldn't really start in a 4-2-3-1 with Xavi as the AM.

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Post by futbol_bill Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:39 pm

mtfootball wrote:But the a striker shouldn't be replaced with a midfielder, he should be replaced with another striker.

Silva is more of a playmaker than a goalscorer. He shouldn't really start in a 4-2-3-1 with Xavi as the AM.

The striker will be Negredo or Llorente or Soldado. This was Torres chance to show he still has it and he failed. Villa gets one forward wing spot and the other is Cesc, Iniesta, Silva or Mata (if they play with 3 MFs. If 4 then it's the striker together with Villa. Silva (and Mata as well) are good on the wing as demonstrated today. For Silva to play in the MF he has to beat out Cesc and Iniesta and Cazorla and Xabi.
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Post by LeVersacci Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:12 pm

Did Alonso get injured?
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Post by Guest Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:06 am

Another clean sheet for casillas

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Post by futbol_bill Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:30 pm

Anti-DNA wrote:Did Alonso get injured?


Yeh, pretty nasty tackle (red card). I think Xabi will be out for a while.

This is what VDB had to say. "Ha sido una patada a destiempo e innecesaria, no tenía ningún sentido. Lo positivo es que creo que no tiene nada, sólo el golpe, no creo que tenga nada importante".

He says it was an unnecessary and fowl attack. The positive is he doesn't think it's nothing (injury) only a nasty hit.



Last edited by futbol_bill on Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added VDB opinion)
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Post by skali Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:05 pm

futbol_bill wrote:
Anti-DNA wrote:Did Alonso get injured?


Yeh, pretty nasty tackle (red card). I think Xabi will be out for a while.

This is what VDB had to say. "Ha sido una patada a destiempo e innecesaria, no tenía ningún sentido. Lo positivo es que creo que no tiene nada, sólo el golpe, no creo que tenga nada importante".

He says it was an unnecessary and fowl attack. The positive is he doesn't think it's nothing (injury) only a nasty hit.
I just had to Very Happy

OT: Spanish seleccion 20-bird%20attack_th
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Post by Kev Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:23 am

I feel really sorry for Xabi. Why the f*ck does he always get screwed in internationals?

Is he on some secret black list or something?
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:11 pm

After today's game, there are only 4 spots opened on team.

Barring injuries, the following are locks for squad;
Casillas, Valdes, Reina
Puyol, Pique, Albiol, Ramos, Arbeloa
Busquets, J. Martinez, X. Alonso, Xavi
Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla, Silva, Mata, Villa, Pedro

Final spots are LB (one of Iraola, Alba, Enrique or Monreal)
Strikers (besides Villa, 2 or 3 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or Soldado)
Final roster spot (either a 3rd striker (besides Villa) or Thiago or Navas

This will leave possibility of Mata, J.Martinez, Thiago and possibly Cesc playing in Euro and then going to Olympic team only 24 days later.
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Post by Adit Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:37 pm

Ok bill i find you are online,i need help knowing one thing.

Puyol and xavi ran with catalan flag after winning world cup instead of spanish one,how do you guys view that incidence?
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Post by Ganso Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm

futbol_bill wrote:After today's game, there are only 4 spots opened on team.

Barring injuries, the following are locks for squad;
Casillas, Valdes, Reina
Puyol, Pique, Albiol, Ramos, Arbeloa
Busquets, J. Martinez, X. Alonso, Xavi
Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla, Silva, Mata, Villa, Pedro

Final spots are LB (one of Iraola, Alba, Enrique or Monreal)
Strikers (besides Villa, 2 or 3 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or Soldado)
Final roster spot (either a 3rd striker (besides Villa) or Thiago or Navas

This will leave possibility of Mata, J.Martinez, Thiago and possibly Cesc playing in Euro and then going to Olympic team only 24 days later.
wait,you guys are going to take some Euro players for the olympics?thats crazy,i dont think the clubs will allow it.
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Post by Guest Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:45 pm

The great coaches pick the core of the team for qualifying and leave 2-3 places open. These are the last games where those 2-3 spots are filled unless someone just blows up.

It's not only about talent, it's also about cohesion. That's why you sometimes have players that should make the team on talent remain on the outside. If they keep form, they then become integrated after this competition.

The international schedule and training time is so restrained that there is no choice.

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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:59 pm

Adit wrote:Ok bill i find you are online,i need help knowing one thing.

Puyol and xavi ran with catalan flag after winning world cup instead of spanish one,how do you guys view that incidence?

They are proud Catalans as well as proud spaniards. I don't particularly like it, but I accept it. I think tho that del Bosque got them to put it away soon after. This team has done a lot to pull all of Spain together.

I know with the U19 team, when they won Euro, one player, I can't remember who, pull out a Cruz de Los Angeles flag (asturias flag) and the coach very quickly took it from him. Note I'm asturian so I didn't mind. But the point was let's focus on the country not the regions.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:02 pm

Ganso wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:After today's game, there are only 4 spots opened on team.

Barring injuries, the following are locks for squad;
Casillas, Valdes, Reina
Puyol, Pique, Albiol, Ramos, Arbeloa
Busquets, J. Martinez, X. Alonso, Xavi
Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla, Silva, Mata, Villa, Pedro

Final spots are LB (one of Iraola, Alba, Enrique or Monreal)
Strikers (besides Villa, 2 or 3 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or Soldado)
Final roster spot (either a 3rd striker (besides Villa) or Thiago or Navas

This will leave possibility of Mata, J.Martinez, Thiago and possibly Cesc playing in Euro and then going to Olympic team only 24 days later.
wait,you guys are going to take some Euro players for the olympics?thats crazy,i dont think the clubs will allow it.

Don't you recall Messi playing in last Olympics? I believe the rule is U23 plus you can add 2players who are U25.
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Post by Adit Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:04 pm

futbol_bill wrote:
Adit wrote:Ok bill i find you are online,i need help knowing one thing.

Puyol and xavi ran with catalan flag after winning world cup instead of spanish one,how do you guys view that incidence?

They are proud Catalans as well as proud spaniards. I don't particularly like it, but I accept it. I think tho that del Bosque got them to put it away soon after. This team has done a lot to pull all of Spain together.

I know with the U19 team, when they won Euro, one player, I can't remember who, pull out a Cruz de Los Angeles flag (asturias flag) and the coach very quickly took it from him. Note I'm asturian so I didn't mind. But the point was let's focus on the country not the regions.
thanx for the reply bill,its really good for the team to put aside that politics and concentrate on football.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:52 pm

futbol_bill wrote:
Ganso wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:After today's game, there are only 4 spots opened on team.

Barring injuries, the following are locks for squad;
Casillas, Valdes, Reina
Puyol, Pique, Albiol, Ramos, Arbeloa
Busquets, J. Martinez, X. Alonso, Xavi
Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla, Silva, Mata, Villa, Pedro

Final spots are LB (one of Iraola, Alba, Enrique or Monreal)
Strikers (besides Villa, 2 or 3 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or Soldado)
Final roster spot (either a 3rd striker (besides Villa) or Thiago or Navas

This will leave possibility of Mata, J.Martinez, Thiago and possibly Cesc playing in Euro and then going to Olympic team only 24 days later.
wait,you guys are going to take some Euro players for the olympics?thats crazy,i dont think the clubs will allow it.

Don't you recall Messi playing in last Olympics? I believe the rule is U23 plus you can add 2players who are U25.

Ganso, I just checked. I was right re above except it's 3 players over 23 (if you want). And only 18 players on squad!! Team will be based on U21 team that won euro last summer plus Canales. The key players are de Gea, Botia, Dominquez, Montoya, J Martinez, Thiago, Herrera, Munain, Mata, Adrian, Boyan, Jefferen, Canales, Parejo. I'm missing a few others, but this list is close. I think Boyan, Parejo and Jefferen are in tough.

By the way, didn't you say Brasil would be lot of senior team?

Re your comments about clubs allowing, we are talking about Chelsea (Mata) and Bilbao (J Martinez). As with Messi in last Olympics, Barca had to let him go. I can't imagine Bilbao stopping Javi and with Olympics in London, Chelsea have to allow Mata.
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Post by Ganso Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:01 pm

I know that,but those players like Mata and Thiago will probably play in the Euros too,thats 2 competitions in one summer,too many games for them.I think the clubs wont like it.

and yes we will kind of go with our senior NT.

----------GK--------
Fabio-T.Silva-D. Luiz-Marcelo
-------Lucas-Sandro------
Ganso----------------Lucas
----Pato----------Neymar------
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:29 pm

Ganso wrote:I know that,but those players like Mata and Thiago will probably play in the Euros too,thats 2 competitions in one summer,too many games for them.I think the clubs wont like it.

and yes we will kind of go with our senior NT.

----------GK--------
Fabio-T.Silva-D. Luiz-Marcelo
-------Lucas-Sandro------
Ganso----------------Lucas
----Pato----------Neymar------

Thiago won't make euro squad unless there are major injuries worries with Xavi and Xabi. It only Mata and J. Martinez that will see the double duty and Javi won't play much with senior team. There is the possibility of Cesc (U25), but I doubt it. Quite frankly I don't think we need him (even against Brasil). This situation is no different than Barca with Messi last time around. They didn't like it but they didn't stop him.
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Post by Zealous Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:40 pm

Sarabia for the Olympics :bow:
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