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Post by ExtremistEnigma Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:36 am

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Gerrard won't regress any further imo. He won't lose his footballing ability (passing, vision, touch, etc) as he ages. The only thing he will probably lose will be his physical attributes. His new role in the team doesn't require to be a physical beast, remember Alonso. Stevie will play at this level for a long time, thank the football gods :bow:

I have always maintained this. Stevie will only get better as he gets older. Since his legs will start getting weaker, he won't play much long balls but play his passes on the ground. His passing will just keep on getting better and better.

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Post by iftikhar Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:13 am

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Btw Rodgers said in an interview that he's pondering sending Suso on loan. And that by the end of the summer he's hoping to have 2 quality players competing for every position. Not counting the youngsters.

I feel like this kind of sheds some light that we could possibly be looking at a backup LB, DM, AM, and obviously wide forwards.

That's almost a complete overhaul:
Reina (Jones)
Jhonson (Kelly)
Enrique (?)
Skrtel (Coats!)
Agger (Wisdom!)
Lucas (Spearing!)
Gerrard (Allen & Henderson)
CAM? (Shelvey)
Coutinho (Rahim)
Suarez (Downing!)
Sturridge (Borini)

Four of back-up players are either young or not good enough. There is no back-up LB and no first-team CAM. Besides, we might want another CF/ST as there is no sign any youth/reserve player seem ready to step-up.
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Post by Don't call me James Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:50 am

Wisdom and Raheem are youth players so I don't think they would be counted.
Spearing is gone (thankfully).

Should be something like this

GK. Reina (Jones)
RB. Johnson (Kelly)
CB.Skrtel?(Coates?)
CB. Agger (-----?----)
LB. Enrique (----?----)
DM. Lucas (----?----)
CM. Gerrard (Hendo/Allen)
RW. ?????? (Downing?)
LW. Coutinho (Assaidi?)
SS/AM. Suarez (----?----)
ST. Sturridge (Borini)

Obviously with Sterling, Wisdom, Suso, Shelvey, Gulacsi, Robinson, Flanagan, Yesil, Adorjan, Teixeira, McLaughlin, etc all youngsters that don't count towards the squad depth according to the comments from the interview by Rodgers.

----------------------------------------------------
So we need to address 2 starting positions before anything else. RW - been linked with HBA and Ince on most occasions. CB - Carra is gone, Skrtel situation is very weird. I still think of him as the starter in that position but things could happen and there might be a possibility of losing him. Even if he stays I would like a starting caliber defender competing with Skrtel and Agger on defense. Would love Howedes. But so far we've been linked with A.Williams and De Vrij.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Once done with that we can move on to squad depth.

We definitely need at least one more CB (possibly two if Coates is sold/loaned) as backup. We need another good LB to provide stern competition for Enrique, someone who won't allow Jose to drop form at all during the season in fear of losing his spot.

We badly need a backup to Lucas at DM. Allen did well, but he's not the solution there. Preferable someone very strong and big (In the Sissoko mould).

If Downing is sold then we'll definitely need a backup at RW, if not then we'll be set there with the a quality acquisition and Downing as the backup.

At LW, if Rodgers doesn't see Assaidi as a player he can use then I don't understand why we have him. Sell him in the summer and get someone in that we can actually use. Although I like Assaidi and hope Rodgers sticks with him and puts more faith in him next season.

Alas, we definitely need an AM/SS. A very forward-thinking assist-making goal-machine from midfield. This player would not be a back up to Suarez all the time. At times we might play Suarez upfront and Sturridge out wide or something and this player can definitely start. We've been linked with Eriksen. I'm for signing the kid, although my personal preference is Jovetic Thumbs up
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mandatory Signings:
1. RW
2. CB
3. AM
---------------
4. CB x 2 (backups) If Skrtel and or COates are sold
5. DM (backup)
6. LB (backup)
7. RW (backup) If Downing is sold
8. LW (backup) If Assaidi is sold
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Post by Red Alert Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:25 am



Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Gerrard won't regress any further imo. He won't lose his footballing ability (passing, vision, touch, etc) as he ages. The only thing he will probably lose will be his physical attributes. His new role in the team doesn't require to be a physical beast, remember Alonso. Stevie will play at this level for a long time, thank the football gods :bow:

And is the exact reason why I'm against us re-signing Alonso. (Lots of rumours suggesting he wants to come back and stalling Madrid talks.)

I love Xabi and I really do wish I saw him play in red again. But Gerrard has made that position his own. He's doing as good, if not better than Alonso did for us and will continue to play that position for years.

Xabi's age and wage demands are why I'm againsts us signing him. I'm definitely not going against his quality as a player.

@RedOranje wrote:He doesn't have age or European experience on his side, certainly. However, he is definitely familiar and comfortable with Rodgers' style and he has arguably outperformed our CBs (bar Agger) this season... especially in terms of consistency. I would have no objection to him arriving as competition to Skrtel, though I would be cagey over him REPLACING Skrtel.

I must be the only one that thinks Agger's been our poorest defender this season. I don't understand the Skrtle hate (I'm not saying you're slating Skrtel - just in the eyes of most Liverpool fans in general) and Carragher hasn't made too many mistakes. Agger's made atleast 5 in January alone. (This isn't an Agger hate post for those that are targeting me for attacking Downing all the time... I just don't see how Williams ourperformed everyone but Agger as Daniel has been quite poor this campaign.)

I believe Martin should be playing infront of Jamie because he's a better player and he's only solution to defending in the air. Whilst Agger has made some mistakes, he's picked up some form of late and is still one of the most comfortable players in our side with the ball in his feet. And I also don't see how he's having a poor season. Bar the Stoke City away game, and

Regarding Williams, the only way I'd be for signing him is to replace Carragher and be the back-up for both Skrtel and Agger. The duo are truly superior to Williams in my eyes. I will admit, I've only seen 4 or 5 games where he's played but I truly don't see the hype around him as first-team quality. So as you said, unless he's coming as a replacement for Carragher, I'll be cagey too.

Oh, and I don't think we've been linked to HBA, have we? The one posted earlier in this thread in regards to Carroll was bullshit. He's only been mentioned before that where it was just me saying I'd like the idea of him or someone with that quality/playing style to be signed.
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Post by Red Alert Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:32 am

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:
I have always maintained this. Stevie will only get better as he gets older. Since his legs will start getting weaker, he won't play much long balls but play his passes on the ground. His passing will just keep on getting better and better.

He'll continue to play the long passes mate. He'll just stop with the attacking forwards run that he used to be famous for. He still does them now and again nowadays but he'll start cutting them down. He'll also slowly stop with shots he has where he puts full amounts of power into them. He's starting to hit the ball with technique nowadays and tries to place his shots if you've realised. Think that's maybe him more him protecting his groin with those constant injuries though.

He'll develop into a Paul Scholes type player imo. Obviously not as good as Paul was in his prime, but he'd adapt well enough to play that role for us for years to come.

@ Messiah: Gerrard can play anywhere. If he played as a CB when he was younger he would of adapted into a top class centre half. I can see him getting caught out of position far too often if he'd have to play there nowadays. He can still play as good as any RB, though. :coffee:
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Post by Red Alert Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:44 am

Oh, and I can see us going for these positions in the summer:

- A number 9 (and stick Sturridge on the wing) OR a player that likes to tuck into the right hand side. Someone like Mata, HBA etc. Rodgers at the moment clearly sees Sturridge's future in the centre of the pitch. Suarez will definitely be playing as a SS in most occasions so my wish for him playing on the right hand side won't happen.

Oh, by the way, I'm not suggesting we go and buy Mata from Chelsea. Just a player of that style / quality. I still wouldn't mind if we splashed the cash on Jovetic and play an unorthodoxed formation with Suarez, Jovetic, Coutinho and Sturridge movement terrorsing defenders. Sadly for myself and Messiah, it won't happen. Sad

A centre half to replace Carragher. Preferably to play as a LB too. Someone like Vertonghen for Spurs or another Danny Agger type for us. Oh, and I've underlining replacing Carragher for one massive point. I don't want to see Skrtel go. He's absolute quality, and I feel he's being frozen out of the club. He's our best defender and the only defender at the club who doesn't struggle in the air. He has over 200 games of Liverpool experience in both Europe and PL and is hardly injured.

A destroyer. We lack physical presence in the middle of the pitch. A Diame or a Momo Sissoko (or even a Moussa Sissoko) type of midfielder to help cover Lucas or play with Lucas when we play the Stokes and the West Ham's of the league.

A keeper. I'm in the belief that Reina's days are numbered. He has in my eyes, regressed as a player. He did very well against Wigan in his last game, but he's simply not the same keeper he used to be.
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Post by iftikhar Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:46 am

@Messiah, according to your count we will (or need to) sign nine players with two (CB & RW) for the first team. This is even higher than my (5+1) count. I don't believe we will (or ready to) for such changes.

I think Rahim, Shelvy & Wisdom will retain their places. I also think much will depend on how the Carroll issue pans-out.
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Post by Helmer Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:00 pm

but i guess messiah's caculation and your is almost same as he has kept the option of selling 3 or 4 players.

for attacking midfielder, i will say the names which are more liked by others are eriksen, honda and also jovetic. I dont know for how much eriksen will be available in the next window. I would like to put in one more name Julian Draxler, if anyone doesnt know him he played yesterday for schalke. He is only 19 and have same number of goals as eriksen and honda but only 2 assists, very less compared to other two. Only thing he is still getting matured. His price is rising up very sharply. I would love to see him in red shirt, strong finishing, OK tackling, has an eye for the pass, can also hold the ball. I think soon he will be signed by some other German club.

For me Jovetic doesnt seem to be realistic, just because he is too good that LFC can pay for him.

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Post by Don't call me James Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:09 pm

Like HMR said my calculations are loosely based on us potentially selling/losing some players and replacing them.

It's basically the same as yours Ifthi (5+1), rest depending on Downing, Assaidi, Coates and Skrtel situations.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:46 pm

The same articles discussing Rodgers' summer plans (with quotes) have mentioned HBA as a clear target, ynwa.

Also, Skrtel's had more mistakes that led to goals this season than Agger, and generally been more liable to give away dangerous freekicks due to silly challenges. I also don't believe he's been significantly better in the air than our other CBs. He's simply not had a good season (not suggesting the others necessarily have, mind you). In his time with the club he's had one and a half very good seasons and one and a half very inconsistent to downright poor seasons... I don't for a second believe he's better than Agger as consistency is a key quality for a CB in my book.

Both de Vrij and his partner Indi are versatile CBs that can cover fullback positions. I'd personally prefer a player who is actually a LB as back-up/competition for Enrique, but needs elsewhere in the squad take priority.

And keeper is NOT a priority at the moment, IMO (at least not an immediate starter). Other positions take precedence.

And for the record, my opinion on the whole "midfield destroyer" just about mirrors the opinion of some on "backline organizer." It's a bit of a myth that a side needs such a player... we did not have a big physical lad in the 08/09 season and did not need one. And no, Mascherano was NOT a destroyer in the sense that you all are using the word. He was not big, not aerially dominant, and not that much stronger than others, he was simply more tenacious and aggressive.
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Post by Red Alert Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:04 am

At the start, I would of wanted HBA. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of his qualities, and I'd like for him to join if he did arrive but his injury record is throwing me off a bit at the moment.

I disaagree with Skrtel making mistakes that led to goals than Agger. Skrtel has always been better in the air. Martin has a better heading win rate than both of JC, and DA is the only one that challenges the opposition on a regular basis. He hasn't had a good season, in comparison to last season but he's still been our better defender imo. I can only think of his mistake against City at Anfield and Stoke City away where they were costly. He was a bit edgy in his first game against WBA, too but then again so was everybody in the starting XI. Agger's commited mistakes at Manc City away, (Dzeko's not Aguero's), Lukaku's goal and Giroud's goal at the Emirates. Agger for me isn't that solid in the air. He gets beaten far too easily in the air. That's why I want Skrtel back in the team. Martin and Daniel have a mental understanding. Skrtel always gets the stronger attacker which frees up Agger's weaknesses.

Also, in his time at the club, he's only ever had two "poor" seasons. His second under Rafa, where he wasn't that bad, and under Roy where nobody knew how to play football. Gerrard was playing as if he was Jay Spearing, and JC was horrible. Agger couldn't even make the bench just shows to me that Roy didn't know how to manage a club. We can't purely blame individuals under Roy's time imo.

A destroyer would be like Tiote at Newcastle or Momo back when he was with us. Mascherano was a destroyer for us too imo. We probably have two different definitions of the players role tbf. A destroyer imo doesn't have to be a big physical player and a bully. He just needs to win the ball back with that aggressive style and Javier did that. He was a constant threat to the opposition and always put his face to the opposition. Simply, he didn't care who had the ball and wasn't scared of anyone. Anyway, I do see your point but I still wouldn't mind a Momo Sissoko type of player. There aren't many players like Mascherano around.
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Post by Red Alert Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:06 am

@RedOranje wrote:Both de Vrij and his partner Indi are versatile CBs that can cover fullback positions. I'd personally prefer a player who is actually a LB as back-up/competition for Enrique, but needs elsewhere in the squad take priority.

Oh, forgot to reply to this.

That's why I'd look for a CB that can play as a LB. We have a MASSIVE summer coming up. If we do well in this summer, we potentially set up ourselves to be a legitimate threat to the CL places next season. I'd rather we just get the least number of players with some quality than quantity this summer. We have enough depth in most positions imo.
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Post by iftikhar Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:02 pm

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Like HMR said my calculations are loosely based on us potentially selling/losing some players and replacing them.

It's basically the same as yours Ifthi (5+1), rest depending on Downing, Assaidi, Coates and Skrtel situations.

Not really, and you have actually pointed the difference in previous post. While both of has considered the sale/loan of Coats, Skrtel, Spearing, Downing, Pacheco, Assaidi & Carroll; I unlike you have considered Shelvey, Rahim & Wisdom.

Another thing, IMO RW & CAM are mutually exclusive. If we sign a RW then we will be 4-4-1-1 with Suarez as SS. If we sign a CAM then we will be 4-3-3 with suarez on RW.
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Post by Helmer Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:30 pm

I like this idea, because suarez can play in the number 10 role but it can be difficult to control the match as we saw against spurs because he gets drifted further up the pitch leaving lucas and gerrard on their own. I guess we never really had a plan to go for 4-4-1-1 in the spurs match.
I can see suarez going out wide on right only if we sign a very brilliant CAM, has ince signed a new contract at blackpool? anyone see LFC move still happening :coffee: !!

I know there is enough to be excited about this remaining season, but I am already feeling the excitement of the next season with the speculation of few new signings.

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Post by RedOranje Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:21 pm

Ince has an option for another year on his current deal at Blackpool, I believe, but he has not yet opted to officially take it. With his father managing the club I assume it is only a matter oftme, though.
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Post by TheRedStag Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:36 am

I'm with Red. Very worried about Ben Afra link. He's a decent player on his day, but not that great really. He has a bit of an injury record and will probably cost upwards of 15m which is a rip off. Plenty of other talent out there if we take our time. Dont let Newcastle rape us a second time.

We need to improve defense (including GK). That is no.1 priority in my eyes. CB's all the way.
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Post by Don't call me James Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:12 am

Well the thing is we won't be paying a cent if we deal with Newcastle. We have Carroll as a chip to deal with them. If HBA is considered 15m then I would say that would be a steal if we can trade him for Carroll. We really have no need of Big Andy.
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Post by RedOranje Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:41 am

Newcastle won't value Carroll anywhere near Ben Arfa.
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Post by Don't call me James Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:43 am

Which is why I said it would be a daylight robbery.
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Post by Fahim89 Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:39 am

Well on the aspect of injuries i would like to mention that this year Medical Science team & Fitness team have done an ABSOLUTELY AMAZING JOB! They are people who normally don't get much credit but they should!

Look in the differences this year Gerrard & Agger have been so brilliantly handled this year!!!!!!!!!

Kudos to the players as well for their outstanding determination to stay fit & running.

So, if HBA can be a different player with a better staff working with him Thumbs up
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Post by Don't call me James Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:04 am

Agreed and I think the biggest kudos has to go to Rodgers as he was the one who poached the Medical team away from Swansea Thumbs up
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Post by CBarca Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:06 am

Are we talking 15 million euros or pounds for HBA? I assume pounds. I think I value him roughly around that much. He's a great talent, he really is.

The only thing that would keep me from looking at HBA as an investment worth taking is his injury record. Otherwise he's worth the money.
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Well the thing is we won't be paying a cent if we deal with Newcastle. We have Carroll as a chip to deal with them. If HBA is considered 15m then I would say that would be a steal if we can trade him for Carroll. We really have no need of Big Andy.

Why would Newcastle want Carroll back? Have they stated that they want him back? I just don't see why Newcastle would want him back.
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Post by RedOranje Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:11 am

Pardew has stated multiple times that he'd like to have Carroll back at Newcastle, I believe.
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Post by CBarca Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:13 am

@RedOranje wrote:Pardew has stated multiple times that he'd like to have Carroll back at Newcastle, I believe.

Fair enough.

Even so, I don't see Newcastle giving up HBA for Carroll. Even if it's Carroll and a reasonable amount of money.
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:43 am

I don't see why Newcastle would not want to sell Ben Arfa. He has attitude issues and Newcastle bought Gouffran in the winter mercato who might eventually turn out to be his replacement. A crappy league finish (which is inevitable) and he would want to leave. The problem is there will be many suitors in the summer.

As for Carroll, I don't see anyone wanting him. Newcastle will go for someone better and French. Our best bet is West Ham who have agreed to pay £18m but Carroll must be willing to continue his stint there. Other clubs will hardly want to pay a penny more than £10m.
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Post by Nishankly Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:37 am

Feck everything, Our midfield is 0 without Lucas. Back up DM top priority next summer.
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