Re: The Official Tottenham Hotspur Thread

[Shrekkisfat]

Ahh,good day .
Very evenly matched game,could have gone both ways,then Jelavic happened.

[CBarca]

This is the second time Caulker has not listened to Lloris and cleared the ball instead of letting Lloris get it. Both times we were scored on moments later.

He's a kid, but he's gotta learn...and it's costing us.

FFS we have over the hill Gallas and a 20 year old as our CB's. We need Kaboul and BAE back.

[Motogp69]

So, Cbarca, thoughts on what we need in January? I think the obvious is a reliable replacement for Gallas at CB. Anything else?

[CBarca]

Gallas can stay until summer IMO, we shouldn't buy a replacement. It's unfortunate that injuries have worked out so that Gallas gets to start, but sometimes that happens. We'll look good by next month. By next month we should have Kaboul fit and back to fit right into our starting lineup hopefully, and we'll have BAE back. While I'm not the biggest BAE fan, he is our best LB, and he is a natural LB.

This allows us to slot Vertonghen back in his natural CB position, and that means Gallas will be our fifth choice, behind the two starters Kaboul and Vertonghen, as well as Caulker most likely being the immediate backup. Michael Dawson will be back in December as well, and AVB showed in the last couple games before he got injured that he prefers Dawson to Gallas.

Being so far behind in the pecking order, as long as we stay relatively injury free, Gallas won't have a sniff at even sub appearances, and he'll be rid by the summer

A couple other things to look forward to: Bale will be back in December, as will Brave Scotty Brave Scotty Parker. I hope to get rid of Brave Scotty Brave Scotty Parker by the summer, but he'll provide us with some adequate back up, and allow for Sandro to rest some games, he'll be useful.

I'm not much of January transfer guy. Barca isn't, and I've grown to like that style. I think it's needed sometimes, but I don't think this is one of those times. I think that our biggest problems this season have been at the back, and with injured players returning aplenty, we'll have a full backline, and one that has our best players starting in it. So I don't think we particularly need anyone in January.

Now I would like to chop and change in the summer, but that's a different topic of conversation entirely.

As for now, I'm just going to look forward to having a full backline, and one that has our usual starting XI players in it.

BAE--Vertonghen--Kaboul--Walker
--------------Lloris--------------

That's a very good defense. Hopefully Walker will stop being shite (and he's gotten better recently), and BAE has learned to defend properly in his time injured. Our central defense is fantastic, it's the flanks I'm worried about. But if Bale and Lennon track back as they usually do, then I think we'll be fine. With Sandro and Dembele playing in front of the defense, I think our defensive problems may grind to a halt after December.

[nh01]

We need another creative CM to either add depth to dembele who may require surgery or to play with him, Pjanic (i think thats right) from Roma is being linked. This will also allow us to switch to a 4-3-3 if AVB still wants to.

Also i think your being pre harsh on BAE, hes a very capable LB he just often gets caught out alot more because he (just like walker) is often caught up field because we attack with our fullbacks so much and he didnt have the pace of walker to make up for it. Lennon also provides much better defensive cover then Bale does.

But besides that once BAE returns our defence is going to recover heaps. Hopefully kaboul comes back to his best but im not sure how he will recover after a long term injury

[CBarca]

Perhaps a bit harsh. He's an OK defender, but he's no better than Walker, and Walker isn't really a great defender either. Pretty good going forward though.

I like BAE, but I think there are better LB's out there, and that's a position I'm looking to fill in the summer. Someone like Santon, perhaps.

I agree that we need another creative CM, but I wouldn't go for one in the January transfer window, I'd wait until summer. But we could go for someone in January- Pjanic would be good but personally I hope we still go for someone we were heavily linked with earlier this year- Moutinho.

As you have correctly pointed out, this could allow us to play a 4-3-3, and I believe given the opportunity AVB would definitely do so. We could play 2 different 4-3-3's

Bale-----Defoe----Lennon
--------Dempsey-----
--Dembele---Moutinho--

I believe this is the preferred way that AVB sets up his 4-3-3, from the Porto days, but I'm not 100% sure. I believe he likes 2 CM's (of which Dembele and Moutinho are perfect for) and the AM- which would be Dempsey or Siggy.

Another way:

Bale----Defoe---Lennon
--Dembele--Moutinho-
--------Sandro--------

The 4-3-3 with the holding midfielder in Sandro is also a way we could go about it.

Obviously both formations can have players changed in and out- like Ade instead of Defoe, or Siggy instead of Dempsey etc. etc.

I like both formations, and I wouldn't mind seeing them given we get Moutinho, and I really do hope we can get him. He's worth it, and he can help take Spurs to the next level.

[CBarca]

VERRRTOOOONNNNGGGHHHHEEENNNN

4TH PLACE TIED WITH 3RD GET INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Great performance today and we got what we deserved. Crucial 3 points.

[Motogp69]

First and foremost, I really hope that when Friedel retires they make him a part of the staff at Spurs. I know Lloris has taken over the number 1 spot, but you can tell he is 100% Spurs through and through, and AVB obviously puts a lot of value in that. He had had a long career, for many different teams, but I can say with full confidence that when he became a Spur he found his home.

I'm not sure why, but Ade and Dempsey have some form of un-spoken connection, because their one touch passing with one another is top notch. The only reason I can see Dempsey coming off so early is the number of games coming up and trying to keep everyone fresh (he was also on a yellow), because other than that I thought Dempsey had a very good and productive game without a lot of the mindless mistakes he made early in the season.

The Ade injury could be big just given the number of games coming up in a short period of time. However, I think our attacking 4 - 4 - 3 is still our best formation, but AVB is just trying to get the most out of his side with Ade and Defoe both on the pitch with the 4 - 4 -2.

I think this is the first game in a while were Defoe just had a shooters mentality instead of waiting for "actual" chances. There were a couple of times he just shot the ball to shoot the ball with no real chance of success without some form of divine intervention.

Dembele was cool, calm, and collected on the ball as always. So good to have him back and 100% healthy.

While I think we deserved to win the game, I would of liked to see Walker make better decisions. For the first time in a few games the connection with him and Lennon didn't seem to work out to well, but that was mainly due to Walkers poor decision making (I would say the same for Naughton, but overall I feel like he did more good than bad on the left for once).

Vertoghen for me is still the Spurs MVP for the first half of the season. The guy is nothing but dependable and clutch.

I am really excited about the prospect of us challenging the the top two.

[Art Morte]

I am really excited about the prospect of us challenging the the top two.

The top two? Come on, man, that's a stretch even if you're a fan of Spurs and biased. If you can make it again to the top-four it would be a great achievement (and many neutrals would be happy for you), but the top two is unrealistic.

[CBarca]

Agreed. Finishing top 4 will be a struggle. Top 2 is near impossible and I don't expect it.

If we finish 5th this year it's a success in my book. 4th place is a fantastic achievement. 3rd would be historic. I don't see us finishing third though, that's fairly unrealistic.

What follows this season is more foretelling of Tottenhams future than this current season. IMO finishing top 6 this season is a success for Tottenham, given the reshaping that is happening.

[CBarca]

I'd like to make a note that the last couple sub appearances from Sig (since the Fulham game) he's been fantastic.

That Fulham game and every game since he's made an appearance in, he's generally looked dangerous, and has created several scoring opportunities, or made some for himself. Hitting the crossbar vs Everton for example, and he served up a BEAUTIFUL pass for Defoe against Swansea which I was expecting Defoe to bury.

[Motogp69]

Just in time for Sigi to sort out his form, because while Stoke aren't the prettiest of teams, they aren't exactly the easiest team to score on. I kind of feel like this game will feel like a physical version of Sunderland. Feeling better about the idea of Bale and Sigi being available off the bench for this one.

While Stoke have only scored 15 goals in the premiership this season they've only allowed 13 goals which is ridiculous in itself.

Either way we are entering what I believe is the easiest part of our season. We don't have to worry about European play, and the hardest team we face over the next 5 games is Stoke. If we can get 15 out of this stretch going into the next United fixture I still believe we can challenge the top two. I understand you guys would be happy with a top 5 finish, but I think for once the schedule seems to favor us, and if we can maintain some better than average form I see big things for this side.

Especially when you consider how easy our season is at the end as well.

[CBarca]

Spurs are too inconsistent for me yet to consider a top 2 race. And I'm not sure we have the quality to grind out results like Man U and Man City can without playing particularly well. We've done that a couple times, but then there are times like Everton where we should have grounded out a win Utd style but came away with nothing. Then there are games like the Wigan one where you know if we were Utd we could have came back from a one goal deficit to win 2 or 3-1 or something.

I think a top 4 finish is appropriate, and is overachieving for us. It would be fantastic.

BTW guys, we made the banner. Great job everybody! I want to see this thread have the most posts in it in the Rest of World section by the end of next summer

[nh01]

You two are carrying this thread

Agree with Siggy being in good form, i would actually prefer him over Dempsey.
Ade, Bale and Dawson are all reportedly fit to start but with Ade and Bale having missed training all week so might feature from the bench

[Motogp69]

You two are carrying this thread

Agree with Siggy being in good form, i would actually prefer him over Dempsey.
Ade, Bale and Dawson are all reportedly fit to start but with Ade and Bale having missed training all week so might feature from the bench

I liked Sigi from the beginning, but he won't start over Dempsey until he can show that he has the legs to last at least 70 minutes.

My main complaint about Sigi is his lack of cardio for someone so young, which regardless of Dempsey's form is not something you ever need to worry about when he's on the pitch.

Personally, I would hope AVB would start him and let him attempt his best Gareth Bale impression. The man is going to be leaving the club at the end of the year so you might as well see what you have available within the club itself. I'd like to see a 4 - 3 - 3 against Stoke:

Dempsey - Defoe - Lennon

Sigi - Dembele - Sandro

Naughton - Vertoghen - Gallas - Walker

Notes: Bale on for Sigi late, Huddlestone for Sandro, and Caulker if the Defense looks shakey.

I think the real key is that Sandro will provide the steady connection between Walker and Lennon, which largely seemed to be an issue against Swansea.

[Motogp69]

Oh, and I agree Cbarca, I think the only reason we couldn't make the top two is consistency. Other than that I think we have the talent.

However, we could use more depth in our attack (Ship out Ade for Ibra, dreaming), another creative force given how much Dembele changed our form when he was gone, and obviously I still think we need a world class DM (De Rossi, dreaming) and LB (Marcelo for Bale and pick up Nani).

[CBarca]

This is why we won't challenge for top 2 and why top 4 will be challenging.

[Motogp69]

Oh well, Dempsey's groin injury threw the lineup in flux, and AVB ended up trotting out:

Tottenham Hotspur XI (4-4-2) (Left to right):
Lloris
Vertoghen --- Dawson --- Caulker --- Walker
Bale --- Sandro --- Dembele --- Lennon
Adebayor --- Defoe

Subs: Friedel, Naughton, Gallas, Livermore, Brave Scotty Parker, Townsend, Sigurdsson

Overall just a frustrating game like every game when you play Stoke. We had our chances and failed to put them away.

I still think the 4-4-2 just ruins our right side, because I think we need that link up between Walker and Lennon. Personally, it showed today as Lennon was pretty much absent most of the game.

Still not sure how to get the most out of our lineup while forcing Ade in the side, but I just don't think he fits our side anymore except as a sub for Defoe.

Well, as least our team defense was exceptional and we shut down Stoke completely.

[Motogp69]

Yeah, I heard your throughts in the back of my head the entire game. I think it was the wrong lineup and the wrong formation. Even then, we had our chances and should of put the game away.

[Art Morte]

Stoke are Stoke, the draw masters.

[nh01]

MOST BORING GAME EVER

[CBarca]

Yeah Stoke made the game dire.

Begovic made an amazing save to deny Sigurdsson late on (threatening again coming off the bench). I think the foul on Bale could easily be a penalty.

If the penalty Arsenal got was a penalty, this one most certainly was. And yet here they gain two points on us because they got lucky as hell.

Defoe shoots too much. It annoys me. We also badly lack creativity- Lennon, for how much I sing his praises this year- can fade out of games easily and is very one dimensional. Bale can also do the same. Then you look at our midfield and all we have is Dembele who's creative. It's just not enough.

[Motogp69]

@Cbarca, I still think all these issues are a product of the 4 - 4 - 2, which is a good change up formation for us should we get frustrated against a team, but it is not our best primary formation.

Like it or not, when Ade is on the pitch Defoe becomes the old Defoe worried about making the most out of whatever touches he gets and forcing poor shots. Which is more of a mental thing than a reality thing, because I don't think Ade even recorded a shot on goal yesterday, but Defoe has regressed as a result.

The issue with Lennon is also a product of the 4 - 4 - 2, because there needs to be a better overlapping link up between him and Walker. Since using the 4 - 4 - 2 Lennon has become almost anonymous and Walker has only made poor decisions in games.

We need the 4 - 3 - 3 or even a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 and determine who starts between Ade and Defoe by form.

Ade hasn't shown anything, and Defoe is starting to lose his form due to Ade. So let Ade continue to get games in the Cups and the Europa league until Defoe loses his form completely.

[CBarca]

I agree with you on some of those points, it's that our 4-4-2 lacks so much creativity, like a lot of 4-4-2 teams can. The players in our team don't play hoofball well, we're not for it- nor are we the team to go out and grind results out. We don't play quick enough and counter-attack like United where we revolve around wing-play. Our fullbacks are both bad at overlapping IMO- Vertonghen, for how good he is on the ball and how decent he is going forward- is NOT fast, and is not great at overlapping Bale of all people. Walker for how pacey he is contrary to Vert, is not actually even that good at overlapping IMO. This doesn't help that Lennon has no left foot and doesn't ever look to cut in. Our strikers are Ade and Defoe and really haven't learned to play off each other well enough- Ade likes to come back and get touches, Defoe likes to work off the ball a bit more, this is good- but they haven't really properly linked up.

We looked great in a 4-4-2 for 17 minutes vs Arsenal. I don't think we have looked good in a 4-4-2 since then. For me, these are a couple of the reasons- thing is...we're like Arsenal have been this whole season when we play a 4-4-2. We lack a distinct plan of attack- we look like we're out there trying to wing it, and nothing really works. We try crossing it in, it doesn't work, we try a slow build up with passing, it doesn't really work. Soon we're forced to long shots, set pieces, and individual magic.

Now I'm not blaming the 4-4-2 here too much, these problems persist with the 4-2-3-1 as well, they just don't seem as pronounced as we look much more comfortable in the 4-2-3-1.

I really just can't wait to get BAE and Kaboul back.

We need another creative CM, either this January or in the summer. I don't particularly care for the inflated January window, but in the summer I want us to get who we failed to get last summer- Moutinho.

[nh01]

Were really going after Sneijder apparently

[CBarca]

If we get Sneijder, then please allow me to take this here gun, point it at my head and casually pull thy trigger.

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