Klose is a living legend and people should just sack up and admit it.

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Post by Dr. Percival Faust Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:07 am

I regard Klose as the most prolific/important/legendary German player of the past decade. Ahead of Ballack.


Reasons:

1) Legacy as a historical German striker

He's the striker that German football watchers had been waiting for since the departure of Völler. Someone who doesn't just stick around for a couple of years and scores 10-30 goals (Kunz, Bierhoff, Kirsten - whoever filled in during 1994 and 2001), then drops out again quickly.
Instead, he's had a full NT career with 100+ games and, currently, 61 goals (sitting at #2 behind Gerd Müller). I think he also has the 4th best goals per game average in German history behind Müller, Seeler and Klaus Fischer and is ahead of Völler, Klinsmann, Rummenigge etc. in both regards.

Again, ever since the Klinsmann/Völler days, there hasn't been an historically important striker like him in Germany. He continued the legacy of top strikers that characterized an entire era of German football, spanning several big tournaments. It took almost a full decade to get such a player again.


2) Embodiment of Germany's progression in the 2000s

Over the last decade, he has developed his style of play and abilities in ways I've rarely seen from a player.

· In 2002, Germany's game was basic and required a good poacher with good heading abilities. Klose delivered that and scored 5 WC goals.
· In 2006, Germany's game had become faster, more complex and required a striker that not only scores goals, but sets up opportunities for his supporting striker as well. Klose delivered that, scored 5 goals in the new system and set up some for Podolski, including both vs. Sweden (round of 16).
· In 2010, Germany's game was much more sophisticated, required fast thinking, playmaking abilities and defending from everyone. Klose delivered all of that, scored 4 WC goals himself, initiated goals for his team mates, and was found all over the pitch, with brilliant off-the-ball movement to create spaces en masse.

He went from limited, pure poacher to allround offensive player between the ages of 24 and 32, just like the style of the team steadily progressed.
Between 2002 and 2010, all players in the German NT were replaced, because they didn't fit the new systems anymore or better players arose. Klose was able to adapt to all systems and refined his game according to the progression of the team. He's now playing with 20 year olds and still suits the style of play like a glove.


3) Being at the right place at the right time and taking chances

Along the same lines, he's one of the biggest "opportunists" I've seen in football. In a positive sense. He was never considered a big talent and until age 20, he was still playing amateur football. He received a single chance to play for Bundesliga club Kaiserslautern, took it right away and became a Bundesliga starter quickly.

In 2001, he received a single chance to join the National team. He was subbed in late in an important qualification game versus Albania. He scored the vital winning goal shortly before the final whistle. In his second game for the national team, he repeated the feat and was once again responsible for the winning goal after coming on as a sub. Good way to make yourself a vital player in no time.

In 2002, right before the World Cup in Asia, national coach Völler was trying to build his starting formation for the tournament. He gave Klose a chance in a test game and Klose scored a hattrick. In the next test game, he received another chance and scored another hattrick. There was no way around him as a starter for the World Cup team now.

At the World Cup, he famously scored 5 goals and already created a bit of a legacy with that feat alone.

On path to the World Cup 2006 - the most important World Cup for all German players, since it was played on homesoil - Klose had hit a bit of a slump and wasn't first choice anymore. However, in 2005/06 he played a phenomenal club season at Bremen (25 goals and 14 assists in 26 games) and quickly became first choice in the national team again - just at the right time for the World Cup. He also started scoring huge amounts for the NT, including another 5 goals at the World Cup itself. Plus, he set up alot of goals for his team mates and was one of the 2-3 most important players in the team. Quite possibly even the most important one for a while.

By 2008, he started to focus more on the NT, because that was where his main career was. Club football was mostly a way to keep fit, the NT was his priority. People starting saying he's past it and should be replaced by Gomez for the Euro, but Klose again rose to the occasion - he set up a few chances for Gomez brilliantly, but Gomez failed miserably. Klose on the other hand scored 2 vital goals in the knockout stages.

In 2009, people were writing him off once more because he wasn't playing well for Bayern. He replied with loads of goals for the NT, including a vital (!) hattrick in the 3-3 versus Finland (WC qualifier) and the decisive goal versus main group rivals Russia. Without these goals, Germany might have had a hard time with qualifying directly. Klose saved their asses in the 2002 qualifiers and again in the 2010 ones. He also surpassed legends like Völler, Klinsmann and Rummenigge statistically by that time.

In 2010, people had written him off completey, despite all his recent achievements. They wanted Gomez or Kießling or Cacau to replace Klose for the World Cup. The opening game versus Australia was his only chance to keep his spot - he took it again. As we all know, Klose once more played a brilliant tournament and was a decisive player once more. Gomez played like a miserable fool when he was subbed in. Kießling and Cacau are now pretty much forgotten as far as the NT goes, Klose is still around.

In the current qualifiers, he's leading the scoring table (along with Huntelaar). Still, it seems like he's losing his spot to Gomez. In the game versus Brazil yesterday, Gomez showed that - despite having improved and scoring a shitload of goals - he has a hard time keeping up with the fast-paced football Germany plays these days. Klose was subbed in in the 2nd half and took the chance by playing very well. Despite not scoring, he created huge amounts of spaces for his team mates and played a vital part in 2 of Germany's goals. He had 45 minutes to display his worth. And he made a strong case to keep his starting spot until 2012.


4) Antithesis of media/popular delusion

As written above, people keep writing him off and have been doing so since at least 2004. This phenomenon was taken to the next level in 2008, when Klose started degrading at club level. It has since became a running gag in Germany. Before EVERY tournament, the media and the population want Klose out of the team and replace him with the newest fad of the month player. Every single time, Klose then managed to play well and score vital goals. And every single time, all of those that had criticized him were shut up and/or acted all surprised.

The laughable cycle has since been repeating constantly. At times, it has happened on a monthly basis. Everytime Klose didn't manage to score in 2 or 3 Bundesliga games, people wanted him out of the NT immediately. He would then put on a brilliant display in the next qualifier, score an important goal or two and shut them up. A month later, everyone had seemingly forgotten this and wanted him out again. He shut them up once more and they were surprised. A month later, the whole shit repeated.

Seriously, people apparently lack any longterm memory. Also, the media usually feeds their nimble minds and publishes big articles on Klose's "crisis" or goalscoring "drought". There never has been a crisis for him in the NT since 2004. Still, popular opinion on him has kept changing so often that he was forced to make "comebacks" about 10 times a year. Each comeback was successful, each time everyone was all surprised and each time he became the hero again to the mindless masses.

For some reason, people in Germany tend to yearn for heroes and idols, then drop them and hate on them as soon as the slightest problem occurs. The media abuses this behaviour and publishes according articles to nourish the hatred. Whoever is a hero today will be a potential punching bag tomorrow - and people punch their former heroes with great pleasure. Klose has managed to punch back numerously.


5) Bringer of football joy

In the past 10 years, there has not been a player who has scored more vital goals and brought more moments of joy to the German audience than Klose. As described, most people seem to forget this quickly, but if you look at his international career - especially at big tournaments - it's quite obvious.


A selection:

- 2 vital last minute qualification goals in 2001
- 3 goals in the WC 2002 opening game for a German team that was supposed to not make it past the group stages
- Winning goal in the decisive group match versus Cameroon (he also set up the other goal in that game brilliantly)
- 2 goals in the 2006 opening game versus Costa Rica, which sealed the 4-2 win. Winning the first game was a major step for Germany in this most important, long-awaited and completely hyped up tournament.
- 2 goals versus Ecuador in the 2006 WC group - euphoria was huge in Germany and Klose affirmed and fed it greatly.
- Vital, vital goal in the 2006 QF match versus Argentina - the home soil world cup would have been over for Germany if not for that goal.
- Loads of goals and assists in the 2008 Euro qualifiers, establishing Germany's strong international standing after the great World Cup.
- Vital goal versus Portugal in the 2008 EC quarterfinal.
- Vital goal versus Turkey in the semifinal.
- 3 vital goals versus Finland in the WC 2010 qualifiers.
- Winning goal versus main rival Russia in the highly important, decisive qualifier.
- Awesome "comeback" goal in the WC 2010 opening game versus Australia. His career was supposed to be over, he was said to not add any more World Cup goals to his tally of 10 - and he replied with a perfect vintage header.
- Awesome solo goal versus England in the round of 16. He took their overhyped defense apart and made Germany look like world beaters.
- 2 goals versus Argentina in the QF - Germany were flying high and Klose once more embodied this condition like no other player. Scored his 13th and 14th WC goals and entered legend status after having been written off for months and years. This was the logical continuation of what had started in 2002 and shaped in 2006 and a conclusion to one decade of German football which had progressed so much, yet kept one constant entity in Klose.
- In the following qualifiers for 2012, he's kept scoring like there's no tomorrow, including more vital goals (i.e. the 1-0 versus strong contenders Belgium).

All of those goals - and many more - made the German public ecstatic when they were scored. Tens of millions watched the games (most importantly the WC and Euro games), all went into ecstasy during those decisive moments and hailed Klose as a national hero each single time. Add to that his assists, his comebacks, his progression as a player along with the progression of the team and all the other good things he's done in those 100+ matches.

Therefore it's sad and odd that most of those that praised him yesterday tend to forget all of these heroics and moments of joy so quickly, easily and seemingly with much sinister pleasure - at least until the next rush of ecstacy.


6) International standing

Klose is a bit of an oddity as far as a comparison to other international strikers goes. This is due to the fact that he started out in professional football relatively late (at 20) and never played for a REALLY big club until his late 20s (Bayern). Shortly after, he basically/inofficially ended his club career and concentrated mostly on the NT.

That's rather unusual. It means that his international standing has to be compared mostly based on his performances with the NT. At club level he only had 1.5 brilliant seasons - 2005/06 with Bremen (as mentioned above - inhuman figures) and the first half of the 2007/08 campaign with Bayern. That was it.

It still has to be stated though that he has more than decent statistics at club level:
- With 121 goals, he's the 2nd most successful Bundesliga goalscorer since 2000 (behind Pizarro).
- He was named German footballer of the year in 2006 with a huge advantage over his competitors.
- In the 2008/09 season, he played his first Champions League season with a team that could actually compete - he scored no less than 7 goals and was tied with Gerrard in the 2nd place, only behind Messi's 9 goals. He might actually have scored more, but Bayern notoriously went out in the quarters versus Barcelona. Klose was injured and didn't play against Barcelona.

However, his main achievements obviously come from his international career:
- 61 international goals (#2 in German alltime list, #1 among currently active German players obviously)
- There is currently no other player in the world (apart from that guy from Trinidad/Tobago who constantly plays against village teams) who has scored more international goals than Klose. He's scored more than superstar strikers such as Van Nistelrooy, Raul or Henry.
- Infact, there's only 12 players in history, who have scored more goals for their countries, including the likes of Pelé and Puskás.
- He's joint 2nd place World Cup top scorer along with Gerd Müller, only trailing Ronaldo (guess nobody knew this...)
- Was part of the WC allstar teams in 2002 and 2006 and, despite missing out on this in 2010, he was most likely very close to making it a third time in a row.
- He's the only player in World Cup history who managed to score at least 4 goals in 3 World Cups. Huge consistency.
- He's #2 behind Lothar Matthäus for most international caps for Germany.

Brilliant international career so far. Hope he still gets to top Müller's record (he only needs 7 more goals to break even) and finally win a big international trophy in 2012. It would be a fitting end to his career (although I secretly hope he'll score his 16th WC goal as a sub in the 2014 final vs. Brazil, which also happens to be the winning goal...). It would also once more be an embodiment of the state of German football, which, within about a decade, kept progressing steadily and went from their darkest hour to becoming champions again.




______
I hope at least 5,000 people read through all of this. Might be a tad long, but so what.

At the very least Viva St. Pauli has to read it all, since it's his thread.

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Post by justdoit_ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:29 am

I can't even pass the opening salvo without objection. Klose has been a key cog in many potent German-led attacking forces over the years with his stellar goal scoring record as a testament to his abilities, but in no way has he ever had to shoulder the responsibility and workload that Ballack and Oliver Kahn shared in that 2002 era of players, not even close. Ballack is the definitive Mr.Germany, the face of Die Mannschaft forever, in my eyes.
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Post by Dr. Percival Faust Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:56 am

justdoit_ wrote:I can't even pass the opening salvo without objection. Klose has been a key cog in many potent German-led attacking forces over the years with his stellar goal scoring record as a testament to his abilities, but in no way has he ever had to shoulder the responsibility and workload that Ballack and Oliver Kahn shared in that 2002 era of players, not even close. Ballack is the definitive Mr.Germany, the face of Die Mannschaft forever, in my eyes.

Well, the Ballack comparison wasn't even close to being the main point in my post. Reading it again, I can see how it looks like it, but it was basically just a sidenote. I meant to stress Klose's importance, seeing as he's often insanely underrated, not to talk down Ballack.

Ballack is - objectively - the face of the German NT of the 2000s. It's just that Klose embodies the aspects I wrote about even more and I consider him to be the most important figure in terms of those described aspects, i.e. the decisive moments (after 2002 if you will, because in 2002 he surely came in 3rd in that respect behind Ballack and Kahn), the numbers and the hellride that is media coverage and popular opinion.


I think it can be concluded that Kahn best represents the Germany of old. He was unfortunate to play a majority of his NT career during their darkest period. He was the sole hero, the only remaining world class player when nobody else was around to carry the weight.

Klose represents the progression and positive development of the team in terms of playing style, international standing and media perception. He came in when things were looking bleak, but from then on, things only got better and better. Klose did just that, simultaneously. The only drawback was the Euro 2004 - coincidently also the only time Klose hit a slump in the NT.

And Ballack certainly represents the tragedy and ups and downs, with all those 2nd and 3rd places. Germany were up among the major football countries in the world again, but the last step has always been missing. The same applies to Ballack's career as a whole.

Klose and Ballack (in this order for me) are the most important figures of this transition era, with Lahm, Podolski and Schweinsteiger rounding off the top 5. Özil and Götze might become the embodiment of the new Germany. I'll think about that in 2020.

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Post by Zealous Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:27 am

His back heel in the lead up to the penalty goal had me screaming with delight.
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Post by Babun Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:37 am

Dr. Percival Faust wrote:
justdoit_ wrote:I can't even pass the opening salvo without objection. Klose has been a key cog in many potent German-led attacking forces over the years with his stellar goal scoring record as a testament to his abilities, but in no way has he ever had to shoulder the responsibility and workload that Ballack and Oliver Kahn shared in that 2002 era of players, not even close. Ballack is the definitive Mr.Germany, the face of Die Mannschaft forever, in my eyes.

Well, the Ballack comparison wasn't even close to being the main point in my post. Reading it again, I can see how it looks like it, but it was basically just a sidenote. I meant to stress Klose's importance, seeing as he's often insanely underrated, not to talk down Ballack.

Ballack is - objectively - the face of the German NT of the 2000s. It's just that Klose embodies the aspects I wrote about even more and I consider him to be the most important figure in terms of those described aspects, i.e. the decisive moments (after 2002 if you will, because in 2002 he surely came in 3rd in that respect behind Ballack and Kahn), the numbers and the hellride that is media coverage and popular opinion.


I think it can be concluded that Kahn best represents the Germany of old. He was unfortunate to play a majority of his NT career during their darkest period. He was the sole hero, the only remaining world class player when nobody else was around to carry the weight.

Klose represents the progression and positive development of the team in terms of playing style, international standing and media perception. He came in when things were looking bleak, but from then on, things only got better and better. Klose did just that, simultaneously. The only drawback was the Euro 2004 - coincidently also the only time Klose hit a slump in the NT.

And Ballack certainly represents the tragedy and ups and downs, with all those 2nd and 3rd places. Germany were up among the major football countries in the world again, but the last step has always been missing. The same applies to Ballack's career as a whole.

Klose and Ballack (in this order for me) are the most important figures of this transition era, with Lahm, Podolski and Schweinsteiger rounding off the top 5. Özil and Götze might become the embodiment of the new Germany. I'll think about that in 2020.
Ballack wasn't liked a lot because he was a little bit of a prick on the pitch and from former East Germany Very Happy Sorry, but you're totally wrong, a player like Ballack comes by every 10-15 years. Klose is inferior to him Very Happy Ballack wasn't there for goals only, he bossed the mid and practically carried the team with Oli Kahn in the darkest times for German football. If he had the opportunity of qulaity players next to him in his prime:

Schweini----Ballack
Muller---Özil---Götze
----Gomez/Klose------

He'd own any team in the world, including Spain...
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Post by Dr. Percival Faust Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:53 pm

Messi is better than C. Ronaldo.

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Post by Guest Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:01 pm

Totti, Baggio, Del Piero > Klose :coffee:

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:25 pm

And Beckenbauer > Totti, Del Piero and Baggio, but nobody cares, mate.

This is the Klose thread, and the f*cker deserves some recognition for what he's done for country (and club as long as it wasn't Bayern tbh).

Also: can we stop the Italy > Germany wankfest? It's getting annoying and anything I could reply from now on would just come across quite spiteful :p
thnx a bunch.



That being said, what are your guys thoughts on his expiration date? You think he can pull a Neuville and play the 2014 WC as a super sub? Even a starter?
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Post by dostoevsky Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:42 pm

Most of what deserves to be said in praise of him has already been said, he's done exceptionally well and his longevity in the national team has been astounding. It's been a pleasure watching him play for Germany in particular.

Spoiler:
Wink
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:53 pm

I lol'ed at the spoiler-troll.

+rep, son, +rep! Very Happy
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:04 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:And Beckenbauer > Totti, Del Piero and Baggio, but nobody cares, mate.

This is the Klose thread, and the f*cker deserves some recognition for what he's done for country (and club as long as it wasn't Bayern tbh).

Also: can we stop the Italy > Germany wankfest? It's getting annoying and anything I could reply from now on would just come across quite spiteful :p
thnx a bunch.



That being said, what are your guys thoughts on his expiration date? You think he can pull a Neuville and play the 2014 WC as a super sub? Even a starter?

So by the world cup Klose will be 36 right?

He lose quite a bit of his pace at that point yet I still feel he can pull it for the squad though.

Similar to a Pippo type impact sub role.

As I mentioned, Klose's superb physical shape and reliance on his intelligence and timing capabilities hypothetically be preserved even at his veteran age at the world cup as plus I'm sure Loew will favour him to finally surpass Ronaldo's record.

In short, yes he can.
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Post by CBarca Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:28 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:Yeah back to topic: Klose absofuckinglutely rules. Get in!

I'm in. Always loved the guy. The man performs on the world stage, whether he scores or not...he's integral for Germany.
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Post by 7amood11 Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:00 pm

14 World Cup goals speak for themselves... Great player.
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Post by Sushi Master Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:39 pm

I've always known he's gonna have a supersub appearance in 2014, just to troll on Ronaldo and have more goals than him Very Happy He can play against the weaker sides while Gomez/Mueller/Schurrle rest.

He's in great physical shape and we all know his underrated determination. He can pull it off if he wants to. Even if he looses pace, he can still make a great targetman if he recovers his insane heading skills he once had.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:12 pm

Sushi Master wrote:Watch him tear shit up at Lazio. His game is perfectly suited for Calcio.

:bow:
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Post by la bestia negra Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:23 pm

Klose is a living legend and people should just sack up and admit it. - Page 3 582181_397590310300526_623734954_n
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:50 pm

Doesn't even dive at sea :bow:
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Post by Vlad the Impaler Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:58 pm

I always compared Klose with Drogba when it comes about heading accuracy.In my opinion they are the best in the world at headers.

:bow:
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Post by worms Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:13 pm

Falcao has better heading accuracy but Klose scores more of them due to physical advantages.

In terms of heading technique I have Klose only behind Falcao.
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Post by McAgger Sun May 05, 2013 3:37 pm

5 GOALS :bow:
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Post by Art Morte Sun May 05, 2013 3:40 pm

Shocked
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Post by LeBéninois Sun May 05, 2013 4:11 pm

:bow: 5 goals


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Post by futbol Sun May 05, 2013 4:11 pm

:bow:

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Post by Casciavit Sun May 05, 2013 4:18 pm

:bow:
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Post by Kaladin Sun May 05, 2013 4:20 pm

:bow:
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Post by rwo power Sun May 05, 2013 5:15 pm

Immortal Klose :bow:
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