Jordan henderson v jack wilshere

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Post by REWB Fri May 09, 2014 7:35 pm

Fußball wrote:I'm curious where Wilshere will actually play at Arsenal in the foreseeable future. With Özil as the #10 there is no room for him in that position. With Ramsey already excelling at CM Arsenal need a DM alongside him for balance IMO. Ramsey-Wilshere is not balanced, especially with Özil infront of them. This is not much of an issue right now because Wilshere = wheelchair anyway but at some point he'll get over his injuries for sure.

Obviously if we swap Ramsey with Song that problem wouldn't occur. Song-Wilshere has good balance. hmm

why do barca fans keep talking as if we arsenal will take song back? we sold him to you without any resistance for a reason. we knew that his overall ability was over hyped and barca fell for it like idiots, they didnt even scout him properly rofl

you guys are starting to remind me of chelsea fans who actually think atletico will take torres back Laughing

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Post by RealGunner Fri May 09, 2014 7:44 pm

He is joking
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Post by Art Morte Fri May 09, 2014 8:02 pm

I remember saying in some thread before the season that Wilshere needs to have a big season, both his fitness and form have been start-stop pretty much all his career. Now it's been yet another OK season from him. Injury problems are a legit reason for that, though, so I guess I can postpone my "he needs to have a proper breakthrough season" statement until next season.

Will be interesting to see whether Hodgson picks Wilshere for the WC and what happens there. That could be his chance to end the season on a high, personal performance wise, I mean.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri May 09, 2014 9:57 pm

Henderson has the benefit of being almost 2 years older than Jack in age and progress, to which has undoubtedly allowed the propensity of maturity to envelop Henderson over Wilshere, the latter also being victim to a series of injuries to which have consistently hampered his progress.

Jordan has undoubtedly had a superior season yet given Wilshere's injury curse and circumstances, one would be cruel to make comparisons especially given Wilshere before Henderson's performance elevation was performing at higher levels.

Wilshere no doubt has the higher ceiling and talent level, yet talent as we know means little unless converted into a consistent basis of producing without just the means of talent.

Frank Lampard and David Beckham a great example in that.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue May 13, 2014 9:25 pm

Wilshere has been disappointing for much of this season, his biggest problem I think was consistency and he has often looked very rusty.

Still, the talent hasn't gone its still there. This video basically cherry picked his good moments from this season but no one can watch this and seriously doubt he can be one of the very best midfielders around if he develops according to his talent  

http://vimeo.com/95171659

or youtube



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Post by Curtinho Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:38 pm

I'm not sure why people keep saying that 'there's no doubt' Wilshere has a higher ceiling. Henderson is just scratching the surface, by all reports he's one of the most talented players on the team and does a lot of ridiculous things in practice, and off the field. His talent level is off the chart, but he doesn't seem to have the composure to put it to use in games. I could show highlights of his season making beautiful passes, taking nice shots and generally bossing the midfield, but in any case Henderson is clearly a better player right now and I think he will continue to be. He's got the potential to be one of the very best in the PL with his tireless engine, physical ability and skills.
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Post by Helmer Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:49 pm

Has Wilshere disappeared and will it remain like that !!

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Post by Eman Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:25 am

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:Has Wilshere disappeared and will it remain like that !!

It all depends on how he recovers from his ankle injuries. Right now it looks like he's constantly on the sidelines, but he's also only recently turned 23 so there is plenty of time for him to get fit again. His career has sort of been on hold for some time now though.
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Post by Art Morte Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:56 am

Art Morte wrote:I remember saying in some thread before the season that Wilshere needs to have a big season, both his fitness and form have been start-stop pretty much all his career. Now it's been yet another OK season from him. Injury problems are a legit reason for that, though, so I guess I can postpone my "he needs to have a proper breakthrough season" statement until next season.


That's what I said a year ago and it's true again now. I don't know is it ever going to happen for Wilshere.

Btw, career Premier League goals:
Henderson 19
Wilshere 6
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Post by Helmer Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:07 am

reading the comments here, it seems like People get fooled by flashy stuff done by a player more than the end product. So many said he has higher ceiling than Henderson. Wilshere poor fella seems to have problems with injuries and who knows all those media 'smoking' News says something about his bad luck that he cant concentrate on Football because of injuries.

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Post by Nishankly Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:14 pm

Wilshere still has a higher ceiling but i'd never take Wilshere over Henderson to work in a 2 man midfield.

Both of them have along way to go. England wise they have no competition for now.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:54 pm

How does Wilshere have a higher ceiling?
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Post by Eman Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:15 pm

El Cujo wrote:How does Wilshere have a higher ceiling?
The flashes of skill that he shows on a regular basis play a part in it:
Jordan henderson v jack wilshere - Page 2 Anigif_enhanced-buzz-3236-1382394227-16
Jordan henderson v jack wilshere - Page 2 DelectableWelllitBronco
He is also 2 years younger and has been injured a lot, so while Henderson is already approaching what could be considered his best years, it's unclear whether we have seen the real Wilshere yet.

I'm not saying he necessarily does have more potential but you can see why he might.
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Post by Art Morte Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:49 pm

A couple of years ago I would have said Wilshere has more potential. It might be true still, but Henderson has developed himself very impressively, it's obvious he has worked really hard to make himself a better player. Henderson is realizing his potential extremely well while Wilshere is doing the opposite (partly due to injuries).
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:58 pm

I might be wrong but I don't think Henderson is capable of this

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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:04 pm

You're probably right (3rd gif).

El Cujo wrote::coffee:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Or his left footed through ball to Sterling earlier in the year which was ridiculous. I feel like because Wilshere dribbles at times people equate that to better potential. Henderson doesn't dribble. Henderson does control space, makes great decisions, passes the ball well, has incredible technique in his shooting and passing and makes incredible runs. He reads the game incredibly well, and if he can fix his composure goals like that will be more frequent because he gets himself into good scoring positions all the time (and crosses like that are not abnormal for him either).

On top of which Henderson's work rate and health are miles ahead of Wilshere.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:12 pm

I don't think that cross was similar at all in quality to the pass in the video I posted. If Henderson has done a pass as good as that, I'd like to see it, because I haven't yet.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:54 pm

If you say so. It was just as good.

Then there's this one which was with his left foot:

Jordan henderson v jack wilshere - Page 2 Raheem-sterling-jordan-henderson-liverpool-southampton2

But stuff like this isn't even what he's there for and he still does it fairly regularly.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:44 pm

If you think those are just as good, fair enough. But we may as well agree to disagree about anything to do with football and leave it at that.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:38 pm

I'm fine with that.

Although I'm curious as to what makes Wilshere's pass you posted so much better than the one Henderson delivered for Sturridge.
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Post by McAgger Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:29 pm

That Wilshere pass is not impressive. It's a hopeful ball up field that luckily reaches the player.

The dribble before that lump is more impressive by him.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:05 pm

That's how I saw it. Felt Hendos was actually better tbh. It's a long cross with precision and conviction.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:24 pm

Don't call me James wrote:It's a hopeful ball up field that luckily reaches the player.


Yeah, but, that's not true. I means it's demonstrably not true.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:27 pm

El Cujo wrote:I'm fine with that.

Although I'm curious as to what makes Wilshere's pass you posted so much better than the one Henderson delivered for Sturridge.


It has more pace, it travelled further, and like the commentator it was inch perfect accuracy. I mean he literally dropped the ball right over the defenders head. Aside from all that, kicking across the ball with the outside of the foot is one of the most difficult techniques.
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Post by Eman Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:40 pm

El Cujo wrote:But stuff like this isn't even what he's there for and he still does it fairly regularly.

A midfielder performing good forward passes is not what a midfielder is put into a team to do? I think I know what you mean in that attacking midfield players are expected to assist goals but deep-lying CMs are typically not on a regular basis, but CMs that are not capable of picking good long passes have no place in a top side.

Anyway, since we seem to have become so fixated on passing, here is quite a lengthy highlight reel of impressive Wilshere passes. Please don't act like Wilshere's passing is any less than top-class. A large part of why Wilshere has not scored a large number of goals is because he knows that his passing is his best asset so he looks for assists; his ability to beat a man is just a bonus.
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Post by Donuts Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:47 am

doesn't matter how high his ceiling is, if he spends half the season injured he is almost useless..
i'd take jonathan dos santos over him
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