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Post by theaguia Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:55 am

why do people take international friendlies as such an important factor in determining whether a national team is better than the other, but do not pay any attention to club friendlies to decide who is better between those clubs?

hope that made sense
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Post by TalkingReckless Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:58 am

because international friendlies count in the ranking.....and there are only so many international games per year


whereas club friendlies are only warm up or practice for real season
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Post by theaguia Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:03 am

but isnt the purpose of both to test out tactics, new players and so on? and furthermore there are some friendlies that actually matter because of the prize money or the prestige
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:48 am

The rivalry and prestige associated with some friendlies means that even though they do not occur in a competition they will still be highly built up by the fans. For instance, there is truly no such thing as a 'friendly' between Germany and Italy or England, which at the very least means that even if experimentation occurs it will be done on a strong foundation that can achieve victory. Other results may mean less though on a match by match basis, depending on the squad from each side.

Club friendlies during the pre-season, at least initially, are normally dislocated from this sense of rivalry or prestige. It should also be noted that when testing out tactics or new players for a national team, each player has in theory earnt his place by standing out amongst his peers from his nation, even if they are young or inexperienced, whilst a club may simply be trying out very raw prospects.

Knowing what you are getting at given the threads this relates to, I sympathise with your point though. In either case, friendlies are excellent grounds to experiment or provide experience however they are essentially progress reports in my eyes, unless someone gets royally thumped with an undisputed first team.
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Post by theaguia Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:12 am

thanks for your excellent reply kudos for that.
however what abt those friendlies that involve prize money? there was on in dubai where they gave out 1 mil to the winner im a sure in those friendlies clubs would play their heart out. There is also friendlies that mean alot benfica losing to sporting in a friendly is sure to upset many people.
furthermore i am not 100% convinced abt what you are trying to say about players, i mean sure a player has in theory earnt a place amongst their peers but they have to show they deserve to be in the starting XI likewise in a club everyone is fighting out for a plce, so i dont think motivation would be different for either
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:48 am

In friendlies that involve prize money I would expect a greater degree of competitiveness, though it would also depend on whether the clubs are more interested in exposure - which a friendly in Dubai essentially adds up to - or in simply trying out new players, as might happen this summer when many players are late to return to their teams due to the Copa America, though in theory everyone is always trying to win, but whether they play as if they have to win might be in question.

As for the comparison between call ups to the national team of inexperienced players as opposed to a youth team player, I believe that the pressure involved in a specific call up is that an expectation exists that you are already ready for the task. You may not be expected to dominate, however you should be capable of giving a decent account of yourself. For an eighteen or nineteen year old player getting their first chance with the first team however, they might or might not have any pressure to prove themselves or perform, but either way it can almost be their first test, as opposed to a progress test. It's establishing what the coach has in reserve.

For instance, Fossati and Calvano are two central midfielders from our Primavera who will be training with the squad during the pre-season and who are expected to be given a chance at some stage in our build-up to the season, however they are essentially new elements, who will not receive a great deal of time this season, save for an injury crisis, regardless of their likely performances.

I will grant you however, that for some individuals, it might amount to the same. A midfielder of similar age is Thiago, who has been promised beforehand that he will now be elevated to the first team and who thus needs to respond to this. So it still continues to be a team by team, match by match way of evaluating the importance of friendlies, though I see club friendlies as being far more flexible in their use which would create such diverse situations as these.
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Post by theaguia Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:04 am

wow great reply cleared my mind
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Post by M99 Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:57 am

dostoevsky=God
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:05 pm

milanista99 wrote:dostoevsky=Humble and Respectful

I'd rather that we don't indulge in the level of narcissism that others on the forum do.

Abate comparisons are welcomed however. :geek:
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