The new player-manager-director of football - Kylian Mbappe

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Post by futbol_bill Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:57 am

I think someone here said same about him adopting to EPL and he has excelled and yet we see Thimmy, who knows a lot more about him than we ever will, say Pep is holding him back in terms of his skill yet.

I do expect some let down re WC, but it will effect PSG more than anyone else. They do however, have a month and a half to recover. City is IMO the absolute favorite..

I wouldn’t bet against him.

It’s not really relevant to this discussion plus there were the Benzema timing issue but IMO, Flo made the wrong decision in going for Mbappe rather than Haaland.

I obviously want Madrid in CL final, but if not,  I’d love to watch a Mbappe vs Haaland CL final. I would find that as entertaining as today’s game.

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Post by sportsczy Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:49 am

It's nothing to do with holding Haaland back.  He's fantastic.  But he hasn't played the big moments where you need to have crazy mental strength to deliver...  you've either delivered in those moments or you haven't.  Haaland hasn't had the opportunity and we won't know until he does.  That's my point.

Also Bill, Mbappe's stats are crazy in big games...  Just insane

He has now scored 12 goals in 14 world cup games.  He is he top scorer EVER in world cup finals with 4 goals... Pele, Vava, Zidane and Hurst have 3.

In 60 CL games, he has 40 goals lol.

In the last 17 games for France NT, he has 19 goals with 1 in Nation's League semis, 1 in Nation's League finals and the hat trick today in World Cup final.

The guy is unbelievable.

To put that in perspective:  Messi has 13 goals in 26 games in world cups.  CR has 8 in 22.

This year, in official competitions for club and country, Mbappe has 27 goals in 27 appearances (including subs).
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Post by Myesyats Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:16 am

futbol_bill wrote:

It’s not really relevant to this discussion plus there were the Benzema timing issue but IMO, Flo made the wrong decision in going for Mbappe rather than Haaland.

I think that’s easy to say in retrospect once you know that Mbappe rejected you but he is clearly the superior player since Haaland relies too much on service and sometimes makes 4 touches on the ball the entire game

Sadly we probably won’t have a Haaland vs Mbappe World Cup story because Norway is too weak
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Post by sportsczy Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:34 pm

Yeah it will need to be at the club level... which is going to happen btw. They're both at elite clubs.

It would be nice to get them into the same league, which btw is likely to happen. Everything is pointing to Mbbape going to EPL assuming Liverpool and Man U sales go well.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:16 pm

Looking forward to see how PSG manage to make the rest of the season work after this last week. They got the best player in history (still playing at a high level) and the best player of the next era, and yet I don't see how they'll patch things up
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Post by Cruijf Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:17 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Looking forward to see how PSG manage to make the rest of the season work after this last week. They got the best player in history (still playing at a high level) and the best player of the next era, and yet I don't see how they'll patch things up


Messi and Mbappe are now very close rivals for this year’s BDOR, which is definitely a bad thing for PSG as a team. There’s a chance that could cause conflict and drag the team down. The other potential issue is Messi losing motivation after winning the last thing left for him to win. If Messi and Mbappe stay happy and motivated though, I can see them beating Bayern and making a good CL run
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Post by El Gunner Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:07 am

well unless Mbappe wants to drop deeper and become a playmaker too, he really can't take Messi's game away from him. They are barely ever in the same spot on the pitch. Messi i don't think is very selfish so he'll just pass to Mbappe has usual and Mbappe might become even more selfish than usual trying to rack up goals Laughing
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Post by guest_07 Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:48 am

Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim.
Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim.
Good day to Others.

Is this "help"?


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Post by Harmonica Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:22 am

That doll was thrown by some fan to the bus, and Martinez just picked it up. Its just media trying to stir something up. And the floor mat is pretty much irrelevant considering PSG.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:36 pm

Mbappe is unselfish on the pitch. Frankly, MNM are fantastic on the attack. Really combine well. The issue is defensively.

Also, Mbappe showed up for training at PSG already today. He has some Kobe Bryant in him.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:37 pm

Media isn’t stirring anything up. Argentina players, being the peasants that they are, are talking shit after winning. Mbappe targeted mostly with some Camavinga thrown in there.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:30 pm

Mbappe is targeted because he shat on the entire continent so now everyone in South America hates him. Fully deserved and I hope he thinks better before writing off entire nations in the future.

Camavinga was only the target of 1 comment by aguero, no one else has said anything
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:03 pm

All Mbappe said is that it's easier for the top teams in South American to qualify for WC because it's a single pool with many games... so having a bad result here and there won't jeopardize them.  In Europe, you have multiple pools with few games.  So if you have 1 or 2 poor results, you're in a playoff.

Since you don't have that level of competitive pressure in WC qualifying AND football leagues aren't as developed in South America as in Europe (really no argument here, I hope) so NTs don't play at the same level either unless they have a lot of players in Europe...  he concluded with:

“South American teams have disadvantages because they don’t have the same level of competition as European teams. Argentina and Brazil don’t play matches at a high level to get to the World Cup. Football is not as advanced as it is in Europe. That’s what you saw in recent World Cups,”

He's absolutely right, and it had nothing to do with writing off a continent... he's admitted the same thing regarding PSG and Ligue 1 compared to the other elite teams in Europe in top leagues. His quote was something like this "Ligue 1 is a good league but not among the best in Europe. It can be a disadvantage for us (PSG). I'm staying to help elevate the league and get PSG a champion's league trophy. I'm French and from Paris; this is my dream."

If you don't agree with his Brazil/Argentina argument... then please don't be a hypocrite and agree with his PSG/Ligue 1 stance.


Last edited by sportsczy on Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by El Gunner Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:05 pm

well if he said the same thing about PSG/Ligue Un then he should leave there
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:08 pm

El Gunner wrote:well if he said the same thing about PSG/Ligue Un then he should leave there

I added his quote on top. He said this when signing the extension (or close to it): "Ligue 1 is a good league but not among the best in Europe. It can be a disadvantage for us (PSG). I'm staying to help elevate the league and get PSG a champion's league trophy. I'm French and from Paris; this is my dream."
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Post by El Gunner Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:11 pm

well let's hope he and Messi delivers the CL this season, and then he can go try and conquer the GOAT league so that we can see what he is all about once and for all
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Post by Casciavit Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:36 pm

sportsczy wrote:Mbappe is unselfish on the pitch.  Frankly, MNM are fantastic on the attack.  Really combine well.  The issue is defensively.  

Also, Mbappe showed up for training at PSG already today.  He has some Kobe Bryant in him.  


This is a complete lie bro. I've seen enough PSG games in the last two seasons to know he is a selfish player. The number of times he overdribbles and decides to shoot despite better options being next to him is almost 2008 CR esque.

Him combining with them and having a good assist count doesn't negate the above. Pochettino himself said Mbappe plays for himself too much at times. Let's not forget the shitshow at the start of the season either.
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Post by Casciavit Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:40 pm

Either way Mbappe is a demon, and that 15 minute period after the first penalty was one of the most dominant displays of football I've ever seen. He kicked into a flow state and wanted to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Messi may have announced himself as the GOAT to the doubters, but Mbappe announced himself as the best player in the world.

I still don't think he fulfills his full potential unless he leaves PSG. He doesn't want to be a striker, but he needs to be a striker when playing with MNM. He wants to be a goalscoring LW like CR, but have more influence on the ball, so maybe something like 2016 Neymar (when Messi was injured).  He wants to have an impact on and off the ball, and that's hard to do with MNM's current dynamics.

I'm curious to see how the rest of the season goes. Messi is the Ballon d'or favorite right now, but I'm sure Mbappe thinks he can make his own case if he has a more influential role in leading to PSG to CL glory. The selfish decision making will kick up a gear during that time period.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:51 pm

what type of impact does he want to have off the ball, except for drawing attention of defenses, because currently he literally has no other off-ball skills Laughing

the success/failure of PSG's CL campaign definitely lies in his hands because he is the one with the biggest ego in MNM. He can try to be selfish to overtake Messi in the Balon D'or race, or he can just suck it up for the greater good of the team.
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Post by Casciavit Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:57 pm

He said it in an interview last year with Rio I think. He's like Henry and R9 are his biggest inspirations because they influenced the game with the ball and without the ball.

He wants to play wing so he doesn't have to play back to goal, and doesn't have to make decoy runs and hold up play. I think playing with Messi and Neymar has influenced him to be more involved in the attacking play rather than someone who just finishes chances like Ronaldo.

Thing is he does have the skillset to play like that. He'll toast you 1v1 when dribbling, his crossing and creating is actually good, and he's starting to develop the "attract 3-4 defenders and switch the ball to the opposing flank" move that Messi has mastered.

For any other team in the world Mbappe would be playing deeper, but he has Messi and Neymar the two guys who are better at him in playing that specific kind of role lol. I honestly think that's why he's more selfish at PSG than at France. He looks more associative with France because he has more attacking responsibility. At PSG, Messi and Neymar monopolize possession, so he knows he won't get the same praise/attention unless he scores more for them hence the retarded decision making.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:08 pm

sportsczy wrote:“South American teams have disadvantages because they don’t have the same level of competition as European teams. Argentina and Brazil don’t play matches at a high level to get to the World Cup. Football is not as advanced as it is in Europe. That’s what you saw in recent World Cups,”

He's absolutely right, and it had nothing to do with writing off a continent...


This is shitting on an entire continent, he called our football inferior and rubbed a lotttt of people off. I saw chileans and brazilians say things like "I never thought I'd cheer for argentina but really don't want mbappe to win". Pretty much unheard of in any other scenario. Like it or not he's hated here and the banter in celebrations is completely justified.

sportsczy wrote:All Mbappe said is that it's easier for the top teams in South American to qualify for WC because it's a single pool with many games... so having a bad result here and there won't jeopardize them.  In Europe, you have multiple pools with few games.  So if you have 1 or 2 poor results, you're in a playoff.

Since you don't have that level of competitive pressure in WC qualifying AND football leagues aren't as developed in South America as in Europe (really no argument here, I hope) so NTs don't play at the same level either unless they have a lot of players in Europe...


That's not "just" what he said at all. It's also wrong. European teams have to play against Lichtenstein and San Marino and you have the gall to say you have a harder qualifier? Laughing We have to play against many very good teams, and even the ones that are not good play at different elevations making all games tricky. I saw Argentina lose 6-1 to Bolivia, I've seen us only clinch qualification at the final possible date (and a stressful couple of months to get there). There absolutely is competitive pressure to get there and to say otherwise is just ignorant.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:10 pm

when you said off-ball i was thinking more defensive contributions, diagonal runs, etc
but yea he definitely has a bit of skill for creating and one-two link-ups... but i'm sorry he is much more of a pace and power merchant than anything else... i don't ever see him coming close to the guile and flair of Henry and R9
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Post by sportsczy Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:25 pm

There's always a death group in Europe... and upsets.  Hence Italy (defending European champs this time) missed the world cup twice.  The Netherlands missed it in 2018.  Forget if Spain or Portugal went to a sudden death tie to make it this year.  Etc.

When was the last time Brazil or Argentina missed the world cup?  How often did it come down to the last game or two before they made it?  How many teams in South America are at the same level realistically as these two?

It's not shitting.  Just facts.

I accept Ligue 1 is not better than La Liga for example. There is no debate there. CONMEBOL is not as good as UEFA either. Plain facts.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:31 pm

It's not facts. Had he said "Argentina and Brazil have an easier qualifier than European teams" and stopped there that's debatable. But he said "Football is not as advanced as it is in Europe", and I think that's categorically false.

SA's top sides can go toe to toe with any of Europe's top sides. SA's middle level teams would win more often than not against Europe's middle level teams imo. And SA's low-level teams would absolutely demolish Europe's low-level teams.

In any event, you can argue whether he's correct or not, what you can't argue is that he threw shade on SA football and that's where the chants are coming from. They didn't happen in a vacuum.
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Post by Casciavit Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:38 pm

I think this WC proved that the smaller teams have all evolved tactically. It was almost impossible to attack through the middle whether you were facing Australia or England. You had Morocco defending like 2014 Atletico.

Mbappe was probably referring to attacking patterns and positional play. The European teams are a lot more focused on that than South American teams. Although, Brazil played a positional game like Man City, which is the complete antithesis to their footballing culture.

I guess he sees the other South American teams playing more free flowing so he thinks it's less organized and more chaotic, hence lower quality. I don't even know if that's really the case though because a lot of these South American games are filled with thug players and shit referees, so it leads to shitty defensive games.

He probably also thinks that Brazil is the only legit rival for Argentina, while he thinks France have to play their hearts out against Portugal, Spain, England, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, and Belgium.
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Post by rincon Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:54 pm

The qualifiers in Europe are easier than in South America. Mbappe is simply wrong about that.

We, Italy, didn't drop out of the world cup because UEFA qualifiers are tough. We dropped out after failing to beat Northen Ireland of all teams, failling to beat Switzerland and missing 3 penalties in a row in those matches. Then not scoring against North Macedonia.

North Ireland and Macedonia would be dead last in CONMEBOL, Switzerland would have also not qualified most likely.
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