Re: Champions League 2021/22 | Group A

by Myesyats Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:48 am

futbol_bill wrote:Lol, Harmonica takes his hyperbole act to PSG following his aging star as he slips into oblivion!

Meanwhile the other aging star keeps bailing his coach and team out with clutch goals.

I’m expecting to hear of demise of his mental state, if it can decline any further!

by rincon Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:06 am

Casciavit wrote:Cancelo with 3 assists and 8 chances created from LB ffs

@rincon

Always said he would do well with Pep. Doesn't mean he wasn't poor for us. Glad he is doing great, it continues to be a good deal for everyone involved.

by Arquitecto Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:08 am

Harmonica how does it feel that Messi is being outperformed by Mbappe?

by Myesyats Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:53 am

Arquitecto wrote:Harmonica how does it feel that Messi is being outperformed by Mbappe?

He doesnt acknowledge reality so no point in asking that

by Harmonica Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:08 pm

I grew out of trolling like a decade ago, so I rarely bother with these posts.

by BarcaLearning Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:40 pm

sportsczy wrote:Midfield was non-existent. The only danger was Mbappe outpacing people to goal, a couple of times from the freakin center circle. Neymar and Di Maria had a couple of moments too... but it was literally from bypassing the midfield.

The only bad miss from Mbappe was the one where Wijnaldum got him the ball. He was surprised at the pass and snatched it. He thought Wijnaldum was going to shoot. The 1v1s were at full speed where he had to shoot the ball when moving while in a sprint with the CB on his back. The keeper made two good saves there. I thought the CB did a good job pressuring him and not allowing any time to maybe slow down and compose himself for the shots. The attempts were absolutely fine.

Mbappe, Neymar and Di Maria had decent games. Wijanuldum and Donarumma had good games. That was it. The rest of the team was atrocious IMO.

Messi wasn't the one missed really because I don't think PSG could afford not having Di Maria defend. The player that was needed = Verratti. No midfield control without him.

A draw was the proper score here.

I dont know what to make of that game... LP has their strengths n flaws, but overall i thought they played well, they lack up front definitely though, Andre Silva seems to have changed n number of clubs but still not convinced.

I dont understand how PSGs MF three should be strong physically but just get bypassed so easily. Gana generally does well covering a lot of spaces, Danilo is decent, Wijnaldum was good at LFC but despite scoring looks again poor on the ball, ok otherwise I guess? Hakimi is a beast, but the team is still so unbalanced.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:15 pm

futbol_bill wrote:Lol, Harmonica takes his hyperbole act to PSG following his aging star as he slips into oblivion!

Meanwhile the other aging star keeps bailing his coach and team out with clutch goals.

Champions League 2021/22 | Group A - Page 8 Vh2iHwN

by sportsczy Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:18 pm

Neymar isn't bailing anyone out Bill. He's been worse than Messi by a lot. Neither have been good at all. Absent basically.

I don't think Mbappe-Neymar-Messi can work because of the midfield behind them. They literally need both Kante and Tchouameni to make it have a chance. They actually COULD get both Kante (contract runs out in 2023 so Chelsea would need to extend or sell in 2022) and Tchouameni this coming summer, which is why I mention it.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:22 pm

He was talking about Cronaldo, who just did a disappearing act against ManC.

by sportsczy Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:55 pm

Ronaldo has been 100x the player both Messi and Neymar have been this season. Saving Ole's job on his own basically. They'd already be in Europa League and even lower in EPL without him.

Absolutely immense. You can't even compare them this season.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:18 pm

Better than two injured players? That's just stupid comparison. Messi owned ManC being half fit, Cronaldo could do nothing than miss his usual easy on the platter chances, that his team created for him. Go tell your usual lies to those who listen that nonsense.

by sportsczy Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:21 pm

They're injured because they showed up late for the season and are in poor footballing shape... so they need to play catchup.

And the games they did play, neither have been very good at all. A couple of moments and nothing more.

Besides, if anyone should be managed or get injured... and have declining production... it should be the oldest of the bunch, no? But Ronaldo always plays, never takes games off, and has kept an incredible level of play.

And please don't tell me about Messi's late transfer because Ronaldo was transferred after Messi.

Absolutely perfect comparison if you ask me.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:25 pm

Fairy tales. He's half injured since of the Venezuelan butcher almost took half of his leg out in the Copa. Nothing to do with training or being late in season.

by Lord Spencer Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:39 pm

Wow, the tackle was so strong, it injured Messi nearly a month after it was made Laughing

Is that's the consensus in the Messiverse.

Seriously, this fool dares to compare Ronaldo's season to Messi this year!

There is no question that Messi is the better player, but his performance so far this season has been extremely lacking. Harmonica might finally snap and start seeing an alternate reality to the one we have all been seeing.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:51 pm

Obviously hasn't looked 100% since the tackle, and it's gods miracle Messi escaped it at all. Now is the time to compare players to Messi, which is why all the haters have come out of woodwork. Once Messi returns fitness, it's crickets again.

by Lord Spencer Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:09 pm

Harmonica wrote:Obviously hasn't looked 100% since the tackle, and it's gods miracle Messi escaped it at all. Now is the time to compare players to Messi, which is why all the haters have come out of woodwork. Once Messi returns fitness, it's crickets again.

You don't get partial damage from a tackle that resurface weeks later. Messi was cleared for fitness after the tackle, and his current is injury is unrelated to it, not is it reported as being serious at all. It looks like some Knee inflammation issues that he can probably play through, but are being safe.

Regardless of why Messi has not been performing up to his standards (much below them in fact), and there are a lot of valid reasons, this scapegoating act is idiotic, trying to cover everyone in shit to cover up the stinking perfromences.

Even attempting to compare the impact with Ronaldo's Laughing

I don't have a horse in this race, but I guess I am in the side of objective reality instead of your own fairy land.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:16 pm

You don't know what you're talking about. Cleared fit isn't the same as 100%. His current bad fitness run started from that single tackle. And it's obvious when you see the leg twisting.

Champions League 2021/22 | Group A - Page 8 7E1hd8e

Champions League 2021/22 | Group A - Page 8 7E1hd8e

Scapegoating the relativity of injured and fit players. Laughing

Cronaldo did his usual disappearing act, when the opposition wasn't milk mans, and the chances weren't penaldos. Messi being half fit showed more against ManCs.

by sportsczy Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:41 pm

He was 100% when he played for PSG in his first game... he's just getting beat up in the league because it's allowed in Ligue 1. They won't let you just walk past them.

You have to play through knocks and understand there will be a price to pay. He's not used to it so he's not anticipating the shots that are coming his way. Hence, poor play and injury.

That's the reason. Adapting to a new league and new teammates. Nothing to do with anything in the summer lol.

by Lord Spencer Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:47 pm

Harmonica wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Cleared fit isn't the same as 100%. His current bad fitness run started from that single tackle. And it's obvious when you see the leg twisting.

Scapegoating the relativity of injured and fit players. Cronaldo did his usual disappearing act, when the opposition wasn't milk mans, and the chances weren't penaldos. Messi being half fit showed more against ManCs.

You truly are an idiot to think a single moment would be responsible for this injury. Messi had tackles just as bad, and wasn't phased from them. . After that game, his leg would have been scanned, and since no damage or performance issues were detected, he was cleared to play (including the an City game you continue to cream about).

And that injury is not the scapegoating your doing. Your consistently disparaging and underrating the performance of everyone just so that Messi sub-par peformence is somehow excused.

Objectively, Messi didn't have a great start to his PSG career. But you can't admit the obvious, instead, Messi has been sublime, but everyone else was shit.

Hell, you continue disparaging Ronaldo's goals when Messi didn't even score once in the freaking French league for the league's only super team.

Is your self-worth so intrinsically linked to Messi that you can't handle admitting to a rough patch of form? Truly sad stuff.

by Casciavit Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:09 pm

People are overreacting about Messi’s start to the season. It’s been bad for his standards but not totally awful. I’d give it a 4 or 5/10. Very average.

He’s only really played 2 or 3 full Ligue 1 games. He always misses the game after the international break because the South Americans come late. He’s come off injured in 2 of the other Ligue 1 games. He’s injured right now too.

Aside from that he’s come clutch for them in the CL. The only game Mbappe really outperformed him in was against RBL. Most of Mbappe’s goals this season have come when Messi and Neymar haven’t played.

Messi and Mbappe do have a good connection though. Messi has definitely threaded him some dangerous passes which should have been assists. Mbappe has also put Messi in good positions to score too. I’m not worried about them playing together. When they start finishing off the chances they create for each other regularly they’ll probably be the best attacking duo in the world.

I’m more concerned about Messi-Neymar, Neymar-Mbappe, and PSG’s midfield. Neymar and Messi look like they haven’t played together ever and just try to force 1-2s against packed defenders. Neymar seems allergic to passing to Mbappe at times. I don’t understand why. Neymar’s also clearly a #10 these days, but he’ll probably have to be an 11 again to make the system work. That being said I’ve been impressed with his defensive workrate.

PSG’s midfield is a problem. Their only two good passers are injured. Verratti is injury prone too. That leaves donkeys like Gueye and Diallo. Sure they might be good at defending and covering for MNM’s lack of defensive workrate but they are shit at progressing the ball. Even someone like Wijnaldum is allergic to passing forward.

PSG’s injuries have prevented them from building a sustainable system and chemistry. Poch seems intent on playing that stupid 4-2-4 which wrecks them on the counter always. Sure they win their games because of their qualitative advantage but they look awful doing so. PSG looked their best this season playing 3-4-3 against RBL in those last 35 minutes. I don’t know why he hasn’t tried that again. Even if he’s waiting for Ramos you can still slot in Diallo into that back 3. I feel Tuchel would do better with this squad than Poch from a tactical perspective.

by Harmonica Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:25 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
Harmonica wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Cleared fit isn't the same as 100%. His current bad fitness run started from that single tackle. And it's obvious when you see the leg twisting.

Scapegoating the relativity of injured and fit players. Cronaldo did his usual disappearing act, when the opposition wasn't milk mans, and the chances weren't penaldos. Messi being half fit showed more against ManCs.

You truly are an idiot to think a single moment would be responsible for this injury. Messi had tackles just as bad, and wasn't phased from them. . After that game, his leg would have been scanned, and since no damage or performance issues were detected, he was cleared to play (including the an City game you continue to cream about).

And that injury is not the scapegoating your doing. Your consistently disparaging and underrating the performance of everyone just so that Messi sub-par peformence is somehow excused.

Objectively, Messi didn't have a great start to his PSG career. But you can't admit the obvious, instead, Messi has been sublime, but everyone else was shit.

Hell, you continue disparaging Ronaldo's goals when Messi didn't even score once in the freaking French league for the league's only super team.

Is your self-worth so intrinsically linked to Messi that you can't handle admitting to a rough patch of form? Truly sad stuff.

You don't understand relativity and logic, which I don't wonder at all. Single bad hit can start a path of bad runs, if you don't let it heal properly. And Messi obviously wasn't going to let that stop him at the Copa, and has been behind fitness schedule ever since.

Messi had the best ever individual Copa performance, you don't lose that ability in a single match lmao. Played two full games in Ligue, other one being El Clasique. You're again trying to scam your way through with a stupid argument.

Half fit Messi pawned ManCs, Cronaldo disappeared. That's the anti hype vs. hype for you.

by sportsczy Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:49 pm

That is patently false Casci. 80% of your post is off.

Messi hasn't played and when he's played, he's been poor. Mbappe has been the best player for PSG in literally almost all the games... with a couple going to Hakimi and Gueye. That's it. Without him, there is no attack. He may not get the ball. But his runs cause the entire defense to shift to cover and it opens up spaces for others. That's the power of Mbappe. It's not on the ball but off the ball.

Neymar is getting better now. He's getting shape. Showed up fat. His work rate is getting there.

Messi has been poor and, without the ball, just walks around. That will NEVER work in Ligue 1. Defenders, unlike La Lisa, can touch you up. So you need to move without the ball so you receive the ball with space around you.

The issue with PSG hasn't been the attack or defense necessarily imo. It's the transition from defense to attack and vide versa... namely the midfield has been awful.

That post was so ridiculous that I'm frankly shocked.

by Casciavit Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:42 pm

Messi didn't start his first game for PSG until they played against Club Brugge in the CL on Sep 15.

From Sep 15 - Oct 24, he had a run of games where he and Mbappe both started. Within that time period, he played 6 games. Matches against Brugge, Lyon, City, Rennes, Leipzig, and Marseille. He scored 3 goals and assisted 0 in that time span.

In those same exact matches, Mbappe had 3 assists and one goal. Like I said in the matches they played together Mbappe didn't heavily outperform Messi except for against RBL. The stats back me up. He's only scored 1 goal in the 6 games he's played with Messi. That's what I was saying.

Mbappe has scored 6 goals this season, so 5 of them have come when Messi wasn't playing.

So tell me how I'm wrong?

Exactly, I'm not.

No one here undermined his influence. I think he's PSG's most important attacker because he's their only outlet. He's definitely been their best forward this season. The claim I made was that he didn't necessarily really outperform Messi in the matches they played with each other. Sure he played better, but aside from RBL which game can you confidently say he played so well?

Messi has always walked around. It's nothing new. I'm more surprised that he's actually sticking to the touchline which is stupid. He should be more involved. He obviously hasn't played up to his standards and the standards expected. It could be a variety of reasons. There's an adaptation process to a new league that is more physical than La Liga. He might be carrying a knock. Maybe father time is catching up to him. I don't know, all I'm saying is that certain people here are overreacting thinking he's been awful.

Like I said he's been a 4/10 or 5/10 this season, but it's not like he hasn't been creating chances or hasn't missed a few of his own. It's a fickle reaction. If Mbappe put in one or two of the chances Messi's created for him, and if Messi scored just once rather than hitting the crossbar 3-4 times people would be singing a different tune. The thing is though Messi always outperforms his XG and he's underperforming it right now. If we follow the trends of the previous seasons, Messi should balance that out over time and people will be singing his praises then. I can assure you when that happens it won't be because he decided to defend. In fact, I don't expect the overall performances to be much different than now, just more bounces will be going him and his team's way.

by Lord Spencer Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:51 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
Harmonica wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Cleared fit isn't the same as 100%. His current bad fitness run started from that single tackle. And it's obvious when you see the leg twisting.

Scapegoating the relativity of injured and fit players. Cronaldo did his usual disappearing act, when the opposition wasn't milk mans, and the chances weren't penaldos. Messi being half fit showed more against ManCs.

You truly are an idiot to think a single moment would be responsible for this injury. Messi had tackles just as bad, and wasn't phased from them. . After that game, his leg would have been scanned, and since no damage or performance issues were detected, he was cleared to play (including the an City game you continue to cream about).

And that injury is not the scapegoating your doing. Your consistently disparaging and underrating the performance of everyone just so that Messi sub-par peformence is somehow excused.

Objectively, Messi didn't have a great start to his PSG career. But you can't admit the obvious, instead, Messi has been sublime, but everyone else was shit.

Hell, you continue disparaging Ronaldo's goals when Messi didn't even score once in the freaking French league for the league's only super team.

Is your self-worth so intrinsically linked to Messi that you can't handle admitting to a rough patch of form? Truly sad stuff.
You don't understand relativity and logic, which I don't wonder at all. Single bad hit can start a path of bad runs, if you don't let it heal properly. And Messi obviously wasn't going to let that stop him at the Copa, and has been behind fitness schedule ever since.

Messi had the best ever individual Copa performance, you don't lose that ability in a single match lmao. Played two full games in Ligue, other one being El Clasique. You're again trying to scam your way through with a stupid argument.

Half fit Messi pawned ManCs, Cronaldo disappeared. That's the anti hype vs. hype for you.

It's actually not surprising why you are not understanding why Messi's performance is actually comparatively down, compared to Barca or Argentina, as it's obvious you don't understand the basic premise of football being a "team" game. As such, you revert to putting all the cause on a possible "injury" from a tackle that manifested itself weeks later. A tackle that didn't impede him from continuing the game, the tournament, or starting the season. (It could have easily snapped a tendon, at which point the injury would be immediately apparent).

You are right in Messi missing on fitness scheduling, but that's not only on an individual level, but as fitness with the entire PSG team.

Unlike Ronaldo or a similar player, that can basically fit in any system with minimum fuss, Messi needs to build understanding with the team to function at his best, that's just a function of his position in the team. This is the main reason he has been underperforming, and it won't get better even if he is at prime fitness if everyone in the team is playing at a different length. Once that happens, we will start seeing Messi at his best.

The fact you are still comparing Messi's impact to Ronaldo this season (MU would be out of the CL and in eighth place) is laughable Laughing

And you have the gall to call other's argument "stupid". Maybe, if you can get your head out of Messi's ass for long enough, you might actually start making sense.

Also, for the record, this is not about Messi being awful or bad. It's about him not being up to his usual high standards, or the standards expected of high-caliber players in general.

by Casciavit Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:04 pm

There have been 13 Ligue 1 games this season. Messi's played 5. In the first game Messi came on in the 70th minute for his debut, and on the fifth game he came off at HT because of injury. He was also subbed off against Lyon because of injury, but IIRC he played most of that game.

So he's more or less only played 3 full Ligue 1 games and 3 full CL games. He's definitely been clutch in the CL for them, as that's where his goals came from and they were the game-deciding goals.

Now according to Messi standards, those are bad. However, when you realize he's been carrying a knock and PSG are still trying to figure themself out as they deal with other injuries it's not surprising he's underperforming.

Even then aside from the match against Lille where he was awful but was obviously playing injured, I still saw him creating clear chances and getting the ball in dangerous situations. Sure he was getting dispossessed a fair bit and looked disconnected from the game, but over time those things should improve as PSG builds more chemistry throughout the season. I don't understand the overreaction from some people.

by Harmonica Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:16 am

Beyond the knock and new team, he's also had twice three game NT-"breaks" other side of the world, because Covid had pushed Conmebol WCQ back on schedule. That's some burden to have half fit, and breaks even more all other schedules. Where's others enjoy lady football in Europe...

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