The 2021/22 Season

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Post by Sri Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:56 pm

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Post by El Gunner Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:21 pm

@El Gunner wrote:if we can get into halftime 0-0, maybe. Otherwise, let's just be honest here, you guys always roll us over at Anfield, and it won't be any different this time around

unsuccessful of course... whipping incoming

Arteta is too much of a cuck. What else do you expect by sending out the team to be too passive and as a result nervous vs Liverpool every single time and expect a different result.
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Post by mani88 Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:13 pm

We conceded 4 while not trying to attack. Should have been 7 or 8 without Ramsdale. If we had fullbacks overlapping we would have conceded much more. The difference of quality was very evident.
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Post by El Gunner Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:35 pm

there's this thing called "attack as a form of defense"

West Ham beat Liverpool, Brighton went to Anfield and got a respectable result by playing positive football.
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Post by MJ Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:59 pm

Terrible collapse in the 2nd half and many lessons on display but idk where people's expectations are if you think we're anywhere near Liverpool's level with this young squad.

Doesn't change the progress we've seen and hopefully will continue to build on.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:07 am

of course we aren't anywhere near them, but sending your team out to be sissies doesn't bode well at all when the likes of Potter and Moyes stand up to the challenge of Liverpool
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Post by MJ Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:32 pm

I get that West Ham and Brighton getting results vs Liverpool is going to be a point of reference for this loss, but we're going to beat teams they lose to as well. Liverpool are really fvcking good lol.

It's also not an excuse to say that those are good teams with more experienced players who have been together longer. It's alright. Time will tell.

But on this notion that we played conservatively, didn't get that impression from the team selection or the way we initially played.

We tried playing out from the back for almost the full 90 minutes. In the first half, we were in the game.

A few things changed the momentum: we conceded two goals from poor mistakes, the energy in the stadium grew tenfold, Liverpool's pressed our midfield until they lost their nerve - Lokonga was the worst victim of this, he looked awful in the second half - and for most of the second half it looked like Liverpool remembered how good they were just as our young squad started to second guess every pass and run for fear of conceding again.

That's what happens when you play a really good side and get intimidated. I'd have agreed that we were being conservative if Odegaard started, maybe. Or if we'd have set up to sit back and hit them on the counter the way we did early in Arteta's tenure.

If anything, we were undone because we have a team full of young players actively trying to play a certain way, even against teams who are clearly better than us right now.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:52 pm

@MJ wrote:Or if we'd have set up to sit back and hit them on the counter the way we did early in Arteta's tenure.
that's exactly what we did Laughing

@MJ wrote:A few things changed the momentum: we conceded two goals from poor mistakes, the energy in the stadium grew tenfold, Liverpool's pressed our midfield until they lost their nerve - Lokonga was the worst victim of this, he looked awful in the second half - and for most of the second half it looked like Liverpool remembered how good they were just as our young squad started to second guess every pass and run for fear of conceding again.
all of that happened because if you sit deep and invite a team like Liverpool onto you, they will find a way to pick you apart eventually because they are really good.

Pls just go back and watch a few minutes of this game, and then go watch minutes from our games vs Leicester or Spurs - and you will noticeably see how higher up the pitch we were in those games compared to this one. It's not even like Liverpool pinned us back. When Liverpool had the ball at the back, we barely pressed. Why are we just sitting back and inviting them to get passes into midfield and onward?

I'm not saying go gung-ho, or even go toe-to-toe with them. But goddammit show some confidence in your set up at least, be more ambitious - football is a game that is there to be won, not to be controlled, there's too many variables, too much that can go wrong for you to be able to control it - you'll have to be a tip top tactician with very well drilled players to be able to pull off a controlling game - all of which we know we don't have. Push the team forward a few yards and get the opposition midfield running backwards, not just Saka and Tomi on Tsimikas which seemed to be the only gameplan we had when playing the ball forward. Even the passing out from the back wasn't confident enough, they were always too slow and cautious. All of this is because you can just see the energy and look on the team - it was one of "yea we can't compete with this team and we've just accepted it." Pathetic. And i blame that all on Arteta, he is the one who is supposed to be rallying them up and inspiring confidence in them.

Infact, fuck it, I'd much rather respect our performance if we went toe-to-toe with them and if we conceded two early goals and then eventually sit back, played contain-game and tried to play on the counter. That's more respectful, and it would have truly shown us where we are at, and how much more we still need to improve and in which places... as compared to that bunch of crap we saw the other night which was just submitting, hoping in luck that a final pass will stick on a counter attack, but of course just evading the inevitability of being picked apart for as long as you can.

Utterly pathetic.
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Post by MJ Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:38 am

Comparing Liverpool at Anfield to a horrible, nonexistent Spurs team and Leicester who actually gave us a run for our money in the second half of that game.... Shocked Wha??

I don't think we watched the same team if from that early in the game you claim to have seen resignation and cowardice. Naive managing of the game later on and rattled nerves? Sure. But the rest is an extreme distortion of reality.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:19 am

Comparing Liverpool at Anfield to a horrible, nonexistent Spurs team and Leicester
it's exactly this pity-party mentality that im talking about... "Liverpool at Anfield" awww aww it's so serious that you have to put it on a pedestal... like it means so much... like it's the most impossible task in the world to go there and put on a good display. I bet you that's exactly how Arteta saw it too.

Despicable. The mediocrity which this club has fallen to and seamlessly accepted these days. This is exactly why only a miracle will get us out of the dumps, because everything else... the will, the determination, the ambition, the attitude is absolutely down the drain.
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Post by MJ Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:04 pm

it's exactly this pity-party mentality that im talking about
Relax, pal. Laughing

It's more like I'm living in the reality of where we are vis a vis the top three teams in this league, as well as what it means for a team whose average age is 8 going away to the European champions. There's a mountain to climb, accept it or don't. Our experience as fans is only going to be more miserable if we can't find anything at all to enjoy in what is clearly a rebuilding phase.

I'm as disappointed in the performance as anyone. The only difference is that I can see us improving based on the performances that preceded this game and the ones that are hopefully to come. It isn't defeatist to not have an entirely negative outlook on every facet of every thing at this club.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:09 pm

fair, guess we'll see how things turn out over the next year. As you can probably tell, i have no faith in Arteta pushing us forward. If we want to continue languishing in 8th place then he is probably just the perfect coach for us.
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Post by MJ Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:32 pm

@El Gunner wrote:fair, guess we'll see how things turn out over the next year. As you can probably tell, i have no faith in Arteta pushing us forward. If we want to continue languishing in 8th place then he is probably just the perfect coach for us.


I get that, I have my doubts too, especially about if he can get our attack going.

But I at least feel more confident that this squad makes more sense together and could grow under a different manager if and when Arteta leaves.
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Post by El Gunner Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:02 pm

let's hope Martinelli can build on today. Beautifully taken goal.

Well, first we actually gotta hope Arteta doesn't lock him away in the bench basement for the next 2 months.
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Post by MJ Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:38 pm

Beautiful goal indeed. Martinelli's development is something to watch. Without European games, there's been no place for him really. With congested fixture list to come, surely he'll play a part.

Pepe not featuring at all lately feels a bit telling. Shame because he has so much that this team could use.
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Post by AnJl Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:43 pm

@MJ wrote:Beautiful goal indeed. Martinelli's development is something to watch. Without European games, there's been no place for him really. With congested fixture list to come, surely he'll play a part.

Pepe not featuring at all lately feels a bit telling. Shame because he has so much that this team could use.


Pepe's consistency is painful to watch. He tries so hard to over do everything that he messes up even the simplest of things, no one can change that but him
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Post by 6unner Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:38 pm


Our experience as fans is only going to be more miserable if we can't find anything at all to enjoy in what is clearly a rebuilding phase.



Rebuilding phase we have been listening to that for a decade now and AFC from 10 years ago would run the score up on this team.

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Post by silver Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:12 pm

They bring you up just to let you down.

- White is too casual in defense
- When is Partey going to live up to his value
- In games like this just start Lacazette over Aubameyang. The only thing Auba has over Lacazette is clinical finishing which has deserted him. Lacazette's link up play and getting into the game is far superior.
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Post by El Gunner Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:25 pm

only positive from tonight is what a breath of fresh air Martinelli is with his pace and directness and dribbling ability which can still get better with more game time. What do you guys think about binning Odegaard, moving ESR back to the 10 role, Martinelli and Saka on the flanks and alternating between Laca and Auba up top until we get a better striker?
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Post by Jay29 Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:44 pm

I found plenty of positives from the performance, but there were too many poor individual moments which puts us on the wrong side of a close game.

We know about Arsenal's current issue of dropping deep when they take a lead. They need to fix that ASAP. It's gone on far too long.

Besides that, I don't think we were inferior at any point during the game. United's struggles aside, they still have quality players. I never expect to go there and roll them over. We had periods where we controlled the game with our pressing and build-up. We made good opportunities. At 2-2 I think we go on to win the game or at least draw, but Odegaard had a brain fade. Shit happens.

I think Arteta made a big mistake taking Smith Rowe and Odegaard off for Lacazette and Nketiah because United were dropping deep and we needed the extra creativity to pick them open. You don't get that with four forwards and two DMs on the pitch.

Martinelli was good. Odegaard at the moment is too slow in possession. You see lovely touches and moments from him (his goal was exceptionally well taken) but then see him get shrugged off the ball. He'll get there with time. Auba is a bigger problem in these games because you forget he's playing and if you don't make a chance for him he's barely doing anything on the pitch.

Long term for me, if we're not signing a Vlahovic or Isak, the next best thing is Martinelli down the middle, Smith Rowe left, Odegaard central and Saka right. Martinelli gives me Vardy vibes and can really shine up top with more polish. Odegaard should just be a matter of playing his way into form and confidence because the ability is unquestionable.

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Post by Jay29 Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:59 pm

Just to add, these results away to big teams are disappointing. You want the games to be more competitive, obviously.

But it's worth remembering how inexperienced the team is and how it's basically growing together, under an inexperienced coach. We don't have really have anyone who can drag the team through difficult moments so it comes down to Arteta but he's going to make mistakes, just as all managers do.

4th place is doable this season if we remain consistent against weaker sides and improve against the tougher ones. Remove Chelsea, Pool and City from the equation, and look at Leicester (who we've beaten), Spurs (who we've beaten) and West Ham (who we can beat). Barring complete collapse, I'm confident this season will turn out far better than last season.

Of course if we screw up vs Everton on Monday I might change my mind lol. But again, should be winning that game.


Last edited by Jay29 on Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by El Gunner Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:59 pm

ehh i don't see the untapped potential in Odegaard to be honest, too slow and uninspiring to me. Doesn't have enough vision either to pick defense splitting passes.

i haven't given up on Martinelli up top, but whenever he has played there for Arteta he has looked lost and unable to compete with two CBs sandwiching him.
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Post by Jay29 Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:05 pm

It'll depend on how he develops and how he's coached. He has to play more as a focal point when his game is to drift and run onto passes.

I'm happy for him to play left and ESR to play #10 as well. Hard to argue against that on current form. Just means we'll need to sign the right striker for them to play off.

We'll see what happens against Everton because Saka obviously comes straight back into the team, but it'd be tough to drop Odegaard after scoring in a big game, at a time when he needs continuity. Maybe we'll see the return of the 4-1-4-1.

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Post by MJ Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:07 pm

Nketiah coming on was surprising - what was more surprising was that he dropped deep to collect the ball and link play rather than Laca who has been doing that to decent effect these past couple of months.

I'm not sure what that was about or whether it was instructed.

Disappointing result, especially given how much we could see that they were there for the taking. Just a bit more quality and composure, but that will come with time. Everton and Southampton are must-wins, as is every game, but we should improve.
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Post by Thimmy Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:16 pm

Ødegaard has been pretty poor for our national team lately, as well. Doesn't seem to move much, and does the Kroos-like, sideways and backwards passes when he has opportunities to pass it up the field or dribble. I don't know if it's poor form or related to the injuries he's had this year, but I'm used to seeing him look more lively.

I wouldn't normally describe him as slow. He was only beaten by Bale and Varane when RM did a speed test several years back. That's another thing that could be related to injuries. Hopefully not.
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Post by El Gunner Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:24 pm

he definitely doesn't look anywhere near someone that is only behind Bale and Varane of several years back in pace, so yea i think the injuries did a job on him
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