The US Politics Thread

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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:04 pm

And I don't even like Trump... but what choice do i have!!!!

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Post by Pedram Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:17 pm

Too bad even the alternatives to Trump are horrible themselves and have no chance of beating him, Nikki Haley who just sounds like she is on Israel's payroll or Vivek who talks like someone that frequents r/conspiracy and 4chan forums, or Ron DeSantis who feels like an AI that was made in a lab and can only repeat talking points.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:23 pm

Arquitecto wrote:If you wrote all this in the prime hey-day of GL you would get banned for any of this.
Sure, some of the language was perhaps too harsh back then, but you were immediately racist if you opposed uncontrolled migration in any way

And here we are 10 years later and not much has changed, in the case of EU the new relocation policy changes nothing, they still want to process illegal migrants en masse instead of preventing their journeys altogether so that this issue does not keep escalating
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:30 pm

Pedram wrote:Too bad even the alternatives to Trump are horrible themselves and have no chance of beating him, Nikki Haley who just sounds like she is on Israel's payroll or Vivek who talks like someone that frequents r/conspiracy and 4chan forums, or Ron DeSantis who feels like an AI that was made in a lab and can only repeat talking points.

yup, the elite got y'all right where they want y'all
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:41 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Let me put it in perspective:
-  Debt under Obama (2008-2016) - went from 10 trillion to 19.6 trillion
-  Debt under Trump (2016-2020) - went from 19.6 trillion to 26.9 trillion (in 2020, it went up from 22.7 trillion to 26.9 trillion due to pandemic)
-  Debt under Biden (2020-2023) - went from 26.9 trillion to 33.2 trillion

These Democrats are basically bankrupting the country.

Biden is a shell but isnt it misleading to attribute Trump's debt to the pandemic given that most of the burden/the aftermath fell on the biden administration?

No.  Trump had to shut down the economy and take on massive debt to overcome zero productivity in 2020.  You can see the graph here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

I even give a pass to Biden for 2021 and half of 2022.  But the debt to end 2022, 2023, and the projected debt in 2024 is outrageous.  


3,9 trillion of Trump's 7,8 trillion debt was pandemic-related so he accumulated 3,9 trillion in debt in only 3 years pre-pandemic.

so if he served two terms he would've ended up (possibly) with a debt worse than Obama regardless of the pandemic
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:24 pm

Myesyats wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Myesyats wrote:

Biden is a shell but isnt it misleading to attribute Trump's debt to the pandemic given that most of the burden/the aftermath fell on the biden administration?

No.  Trump had to shut down the economy and take on massive debt to overcome zero productivity in 2020.  You can see the graph here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

I even give a pass to Biden for 2021 and half of 2022.  But the debt to end 2022, 2023, and the projected debt in 2024 is outrageous.  


3,9 trillion of Trump's 7,8 trillion debt was pandemic-related so he accumulated 3,9 trillion in debt in only 3 years pre-pandemic.

so if he served two terms he would've ended up (possibly) with a debt worse than Obama regardless of the pandemic

The denominator matters as you are paying interest on existing debt by raising new debt. Obama went from 10 trillion to 20 trillion, which is 2x. Trump went from 20 to 27 trillion. Even if he stayed on for 8 years, he was ending pandemic aid and returning to his pre-pandemic budget of 1 trillion deficit per year... so from 20 to 31 trillion in 8 years.

It's very very important to keep in mind that a lot of that money was earmarked for the border wall, increased law enforcement and upgrading US infrastructure. So it was clear where the non-interest portions were going. With Biden (and even Obama), you have no idea where the money went. Mostly military spending, foreign aid, green initiatives (that are mostly scams, unfortunately), etc.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:26 pm

Pedram wrote:Too bad even the alternatives to Trump are horrible themselves and have no chance of beating him, Nikki Haley who just sounds like she is on Israel's payroll or Vivek who talks like someone that frequents r/conspiracy and 4chan forums, or Ron DeSantis who feels like an AI that was made in a lab and can only repeat talking points.

I live in Florida now.  DeSantis is a very good governor and has done wonders here.  He's just not a marketing guy, which is what voters like.  If you were going to look at governing and the impact of his policies, he'd clearly win.  He's a doer, not a talker.  The other people running, other than Trump, have literally nothing to point to in terms of significant governing achievement.

I'm glad he's not going to win frankly. Regardless of what happens, Florida will be great while he's here.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:58 pm

I think what you could totally say about Trump's tenure is that it was not as bad as liberals thought it would be but that doesnt mean it was good or something to strive for

Anyway what I would say for certain is that policy definitely shapes a trend but realistically how much can you change within 4 years, I'd wager that on average it takes more than 4 years to see the impact of one or other policy and most presidents ride on the waves that their predecessors stirred up

I would say that whichever goverment policy you introduce, it rarely has immediate effect. Same with covid, the economy suffered for years because of it and not only when Trump was president, all the excess deaths and many other consequences dont just dissolve into thin air.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:00 pm

Besides. I thought that the general consesus was that the economy is usually doing better under dem administrations?

The Joint Economic Committee Democrats summarized and expanded the Blinder and Watson analysis in a June 2016 report, writing: "Claims that Republicans are better at managing the economy are simply not true. While the reasons are neither fully understood nor completely attributable to policy choices, data show that the economy has performed much better during Democratic administrations. Economic growth, job creation and industrial production have all been stronger."


Trump also said this in 2004 iirc
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:01 pm

Actually no... economic reality is actually the exact opposite of what people think.

Clinton reduced the capital gains taxes from 28% to 20% for one asset class and from 15% to 10% on  the others.  He also exempted taxes on the sale of residential property up to $500k for couples and $250k for singles (which was a lot in 1997).  These breaks CLEARLY allowed the most wealthy to play less taxes.

The republicans gave tax breaks to corporations, which mostly targeted private owners (entrepreneurs).

So the reality is that the tax policies by dems allowed the rich to get richer by reducing capital gains while the reps allowed private business owners to pay less taxes, which mostly helped the middle class.

Reality is very different from perception.

Republican states have the lowest income taxes because they get their income from sales tax mostly (business-friendly). Dem states have the highest income taxes because they are unfriendly to entrepreneurs and, thus, need to compensate by taxing the middle class more. People don't understand that the very wealthy are the most mobile... they'll just go to wherever they get the best deal. It's the middle class and upper middle class that is hurt by dem tax policies. The separation of wealth is becoming massive due to dem policies.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:22 pm

Both sides suck anyhow these days because the extreme elements of both sides are running the show... if you talk to moderate reps and dems, you realize that, regardless of which side they're on, they have a lot in common.
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Post by elitedam Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:26 am

rofl rofl rofl
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:26 am

sportsczy wrote:
Republican states have the lowest income taxes because they get their income from sales tax mostly (business-friendly). Dem states have the highest income taxes because they are unfriendly to entrepreneurs and, thus, need to compensate by taxing the middle class more. People don't understand that the very wealthy are the most mobile... they'll just go to wherever they get the best deal. It's the middle class and upper middle class that is hurt by dem tax policies. The separation of wealth is becoming massive due to dem policies.

Let the red nation separate from the blue nation and see how different reality really is Laughing
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:37 pm

Myesyats wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Republican states have the lowest income taxes because they get their income from sales tax mostly (business-friendly). Dem states have the highest income taxes because they are unfriendly to entrepreneurs and, thus, need to compensate by taxing the middle class more. People don't understand that the very wealthy are the most mobile... they'll just go to wherever they get the best deal. It's the middle class and upper middle class that is hurt by dem tax policies. The separation of wealth is becoming massive due to dem policies.

Let the red nation separate from the blue nation and see how different reality really is Laughing

The would be awesome. Blue nation is so far in debt that they'd be forced to implement austerity within a decade to maintain their "social welfare state".

Meanwhile, the red nation will attract investment and implement security, which will invariably bring wealth into the country.

It's not even a theory. These are scenarios that have been proven out in countries over and over again over the past 40 years.
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Post by McLewis Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:45 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Republican states have the lowest income taxes because they get their income from sales tax mostly (business-friendly).  Dem states have the highest income taxes because they are unfriendly to entrepreneurs and, thus, need to compensate by taxing the middle class more.


The only Republican-controlled state that sits in the top 10 for per capita income and median household income despite while not having a state income tax is New Hampshire. Why is that?

If what you say is so good for the middle class in red states, why don't we see any of the Deep South represented? Where is Texas?
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:22 pm

McLewis wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Republican states have the lowest income taxes because they get their income from sales tax mostly (business-friendly).  Dem states have the highest income taxes because they are unfriendly to entrepreneurs and, thus, need to compensate by taxing the middle class more.


The only Republican-controlled state that sits in the top 10 for per capita income and median household income despite while not having a state income tax is New Hampshire. Why is that?

If what you say is so good for the middle class in red states, why don't we see any of the Deep South represented? Where is Texas?

From what year.  Look at the demographics over the last 3 years.  People were stuck in large urban areas because you weren't allowed to work remotely.  So until 2020, the big cities could do whatever they wanted because people were literally stuck due to work.

Now that remote work has taken a foothold, it's an exodus.  When the 2023 figures come out, you will see what's happening in terms of demographics.

Also, income per capita is a poor stat on its own.  You have to see the delta between income per capita and cost of living to get a grasp of how well a state is doing.  If your cost of living, and taxes, are so high that you need to go into debt to support your lifestyle, then the income per capita doesn't indicate wealth.

Here's a list of states with the least and most debt per person:

https://www.zippia.com/advice/states-most-least-debt/

Here's the cost of living index by state:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/cost-of-living-index-by-state

Also this for Florida:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/22/florida-population-growth-census-00075199

Not to mention Blackrock, Bezos, and literally every billionaire is moving to Florida due to, among other things, favorable tax laws. And before people jump on this, the state has literally one of the lowest debts in the country:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/312681/per-capita-us-state-and-local-government-debt-outstanding-by-state/
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Post by McLewis Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:54 pm

So Trump wins Iowa, which spelled the official end for Vivek, who comically didn't win many votes because voters don't believe he's from this country and they still have 9/11 flashbacks. They said that about the guy who literally said diversity hurts this country. Incredible Laughing

The only mild surprise is that Haley finished 3rd behind De Santis, who will limp on to New Hampshire. She then went on to say this country isn't racist when she had to change her name in order to not be othered by racist white folks in South Carolina. Astounding Laughing
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Post by Myesyats Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:09 pm

“We’re in for $200 billion plus and the European nations are in for $20 billion. And it’s more important for them. And don’t you think they should equalize? Nobody asks them. It’s like I did with NATO. I said, ‘We’re paying for NATO! And we don’t get so much out of it,’” Trump explained.




Is this turd for real? Actual numbers are $70 billion for the US and $130 billion for the EU

How does this guy stand any chance of being president, again, is beyond me
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