Silhouettes of the future

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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:53 pm

So, since in various threads there was debates and arguments about capitalism, socialism, communism, past and present, what have you, why not have a thread about the future of our societies' political organization.

As fodder for thought, here's a film.
It's new, it's free, it's a kind of adaptation of a book of political theory, or a manifesto if you will, called "Inventing the future", which carries the term 'postcapitalism' in its subtitle and as such implies something that comes, or might come, after. Oh well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventing_the_Future:_Postcapitalism_and_a_World_Without_Work

I'm not fully through the film yet, but I thought I might share the link. The filmmaker put it on YT himself.



It deals with forms, possibilities, and limits of political activism, it deals with ideas such as universal basic income, and it's fitting as clearly what's happening now with the Covid pandemic will add a lot of momentum to the already in motion discourse about the future of labour, of work.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:41 pm

Great idea for the thread Hans, will give it a watch a little later on.

@rincon wrote:He came back as the Black Sheep posting some intense threads about spiritual enlightenment and other ill-defined superficial concepts. Then when people asked him about the stuff he just got dismissive. Like El G but with less personal attacks. Seemed like a nice guy that was just dealing with some stuff.

calm it down mate, you haven't been involved in any of these discussions, no need to namedrop me now.

"dealing with some stuff"? that's a pretty bland and dismissive way to describe the guy. He is more awake than most of you here are - that's why he left because he felt the closed-mindedness present on this forum in general wasnt conducive enough for his path/journey anymore. He is a truth-seeker more than anything else.

and if you want to know anything from me personally about my thoughts/views, i am here to explain to you as best i can, just ask me, i always have and i always come back to explain when someone replies to me -- it's just when i can clearly see someone doesnt understand what im saying i will revert to "well then you just dont understand yet" because what else can i do, continue explaining the same stuff in a loop to someone who is unwilling/incapable/not ready to understand yet?? pls i have energy to maintain and a life outside of GL too
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Post by Myesyats Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:53 pm

Oh, El G..... I think there is a middle ground between playing the role of an enlightened prophet and being totally close minded.

Whatever path you're on, at the end of the day you have to face reality. It takes hundreds of years for things to actually change. Several generations. In the meantime, the show must go on.


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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:55 pm

@El Gunner wrote: will give it a watch a little later on.


Be sure to do that, I think it is worth it.
Headphones, and the possibility to focus for a while, are advised.

Will expand on some things covered in the film later.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:13 pm

@Myesyats wrote:Oh, El G..... I think there is a middle ground between playing the role of an enlightened prophet and being totally close minded.

Whatever path you're on, at the end of the day you have to face reality. It takes hundreds of years for things to actually change. Several generations. In the meantime, the show must go on.


i know this brother - about change taking time.
and im certainly not trying to place myself in the position of an "enlightened prophet". I just think there a very obvious phenomena that exist in our everyday life that people just steadfastly turn a blind eye to in the name of "normality", "rationality" and "objective science" and that's the side that i stand for.
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Post by rincon Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:53 pm

@El Gunner wrote:Great idea for the thread Hans, will give it a watch a little later on.

@rincon wrote:He came back as the Black Sheep posting some intense threads about spiritual enlightenment and other ill-defined superficial concepts. Then when people asked him about the stuff he just got dismissive. Like El G but with less personal attacks. Seemed like a nice guy that was just dealing with some stuff.

calm it down mate, you haven't been involved in any of these discussions, no need to namedrop me now.

"dealing with some stuff"? that's a pretty bland and dismissive way to describe the guy. He is more awake than most of you here are - that's why he left because he felt the closed-mindedness present on this forum in general wasnt conducive enough for his path/journey anymore. He is a truth-seeker more than anything else.

and if you want to know anything from me personally about my thoughts/views, i am here to explain to you as best i can, just ask me, i always have and i always come back to explain when someone replies to me -- it's just when i can clearly see someone doesnt understand what im saying i will revert to "well then you just dont understand yet" because what else can i do, continue explaining the same stuff in a loop to someone who is unwilling/incapable/not ready to understand yet?? pls i have energy to maintain and a life outside of GL too

Mate everytime someone questions your grand statements you tell us how we are blind, unenlightened, fake, soulless, etc. Calm it down Laughing
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Post by Warrior Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:57 pm

Glad you don't use this patronizing tone when you talk with me. Or i'd have no choice but tell you to fuck off Laughing

I think everyone here knows you are a bright young man. But don't fall into the trap of believing you are the only one to have complex thoughts and everyone else is a glonk that you need to educate. Humility would add more credibility to those philosophical posts of yours.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:38 pm

again your description of it is wrong rincon, it's not everytime, and i already explained to you how, why and when i do it in the post you quoted.

@Warrior i have no intention of patronising anyone, the personal jibes, which i already explained is nothing meant to be taken personal and it's more just me speaking out of frustration from my side.

i dont think im the only one in the world that has complex thoughts Laughing come on man jesus

Can i post a pdf here somehow??? i want you all to read this book on Existential Psychoanalysis to, amongst other things, understand where i come from when i engage in these debates
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Post by El Gunner Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:45 pm

i apologise to all those who took my jibes personally, i'll try to be more gentle from now on
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Post by Warrior Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:32 pm

Just the title of the book gives me a headache but why not share

Imagine everyone on the forum becomes woke after reading it Laughing and suddenly we are all brothers who can't express the depth of our thoughts to each other

Must finish (and start) that Dostoevsky book before that tho. He wrote beautiful things, and the stories themselves are interesting enough, so it's a more subtle type of philosophy lesson.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:57 am

The case with EG is straightforward. We all know he is a bright young man indeed yet at the moment he simply is at the nascent stage of what he pursues intellectually thus not as efficient as communicating it as he would like but that does come with time (and discipline to the ethic itself of course). Personal opinion is that he will stay in this extreme for a bit and balance out in his late 20s, i.e the usual age we become more so aware of how little we know, that we've little choice but to pursue objectivity and reason.

The one's I'd be harsh on are people of a more advanced age hence why it was in the end fine, to be so critical of our good ol' uncle Unique and why a special observation to Sports to Hans should be given for they don't speak just on experience like most old timers do but hard-earned knowledge.

EG is just at a discovery stage similar to what I was around that particular age. (I'm in my mid/late twenties now).
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Post by El Gunner Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:27 am

^^sure you guys know best
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Post by El Gunner Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:25 pm

video is kinda annoying with its sound effects Laughing

but i read the wiki, and i get the vision that they are offering. As for whether i can see such a future of postcapitalism being possible, idk, who can know for sure. Such nitty-gritty detailed manifestos never really interest me because im not a politician. I only care about principles.
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Post by Nishankly Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:56 am

I feel that's the major issue nowadays, Information is available so freely that people can cherry pick their facts of subjects when they have literally no competitive knowledge about it, mix it with their confirmation bias and take the higher stand and claim being an expert while deriding those who spend their lives working in that field.

Me and EG have a lot of discussions and I respect his opinions but the one where he said only Surgeons have an inkling of what they are doing in medicine was quite flabbergasting.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:45 am

^^ i exaggerate a lot sometimes Laughing but i stand by the basis of that claim

@Nishankly wrote:I feel that's the major issue nowadays, Information is available so freely that people can cherry pick their facts of subjects when they have literally no competitive knowledge about it, mix it with their confirmation bias and take the higher stand and claim being an expert while deriding those who spend their lives working in that field.

never claimed i was an expert mate. I can only provide my informed opinion when i feel i have enough insight to offer.

but yea that blurry line of what is facts will only continue to blur as we head forward into the future. Everyone has confirmation bias, objective science doesn't necessarily eliminate it, it only sidesteps it.

we're living in the fake news era, what did you expect, near Orwellian conditions and people dont even realise it yet. Anything can be spun any way, and soon more people will constantly begin to question their reality, and who and what they really are in the grander scheme of things.

as proof i can provide the university model - beyond the insane economies behind it (student funding/debts and all) increasing numbers of people coming out of high school consciously decide not to go to universities anymore and that number will only increase. They can find the basis of anything online, and can self educate themselves if they want to. Politics, money and power creates the information funnel at the end of the day within any research institution. And the divide between the very rich and powerful and the ordinary proletariat is only getting bigger by the day.

i can see the mainstream education system falling apart and being replaced in the not so distant future because of this.
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Post by Nishankly Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:50 pm

Yes and you aren't. But you behave like one and have always. Your latest post to me was how people are enslaved in corporate lives when you called out rincon, when you have no personal idea of what happens especially when you, where your entire basis is on Youtube rofl in Science, nor an experience in Medicine (Which again you did not), nor politics (which you could). I am sure you're woke but you don't really show it other than quoting usual cherry picking.

Have you worked in a Corporate life to say this isn't worth it? I have a lot to say here.

Dunning Kruger effect has always been strong with you man.

University models that you plan to use are only applicable to the US, its way different for other countries. Fuck USA no one cares when they'll be irrelevant soon.


Last edited by Nishankly on Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by El Gunner Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:53 pm

again, i exaggerate a lot to try and get my points across Laughing dont take it too personal, i just really like to shake people up and get them to think outside of their usual frame of thought.

im like this in class as well, minus the personal jibes of course Laughing and it has led to a few fallouts with a few teachers/professors in my time. But you know what the funny thing is - the way that i write my essays and formulate my arguments is pretty much the same way because that just makes sense since im one person, duhh, but then those that i naturally piss off will mark me down for being too edgy and then they remark me to tone my arguments down a bit Laughing or they dont agree with how i structure my essays Rolling Eyes but then other professors will mark me high and praise me in person after they've read my essays. always found that funny

i guess it just shows that its natural for people to have differing perspectives and they take their views/beliefs to heart a lot of the time
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Post by Nishankly Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:00 pm

@El Gunner wrote:again, i exaggerate a lot to try and get my points across Laughing dont take it too personal, i just really like to shake people up and get them to think outside of their usual frame of thought.

im like this in class as well, minus the personal jibes of course Laughing and it has led to a few fallouts with a few teachers/professors in my time. But you know what the funny thing is - the way that i write my essays and formulate my arguments is pretty much the same way because that just makes sense since im one person, duhh, but then those that i naturally piss off will mark me down for being too edgy and then they remark me to tone my arguments down a bit Laughing or they dont agree with how i structure my essays Rolling Eyes but then other professors will mark me high and praise me in person after they've read my essays. always found that funny

i guess it just shows that its natural for people to have differing perspectives and they take their views/beliefs to heart a lot of the time


Congrats on good marks for throwing new ideas, but attacking those where you have no stance especially since you've formulated your stance based on confirmation bias, 4 YouTube videos and 1 research paper. yeah I would disagree if people think they are big enough to ask people to evaluate their streams having personally achieved nothing.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:27 pm

i think for myself, and i only use other sources here as proof/backup to try and explain my position better in hopes to get myself across better, that's all. It's not that my entire position/worldview comes from YouTube or is solely based on just the sources i post, come on man, ive been a student of life and avid reader and curious mind my whole life, please

and i think you're drunk-posting again
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Post by Nishankly Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:01 pm

@El Gunner wrote:

and i think you're drunk-posting again


You know me well
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