Re: Cristiano Ronaldo rape allegation and general denunciation thread

[Robespierre]

Surely noone 'd defend CR for a rape here.
Personally I don't care because I feel these are just bulls×its
I can't believe CR has made this , personally not a great fan of crap gossip news, It 's usually stuff for old women who drink cups of tea in the afternoon ( I believe this happens in civilized countries)

After you complained about me saying Italy were behind on this stuff compared to the rest of Europe, you make a post like this? Incredible.

This is not gossip. It was reported by one the most reputable papers in Europe and picked up by plenty respected publications throughout the world.

Then when you dismiss it as “female bullshit gossip” you’re kind of proving my initial point.

I dont' even care to defend Ronaldo (let alone, a Juve player) , while it's curious how RM fans have changed attitudine towards him after his transfer to Juve

Simply I believe in presumption of innocence, not even a process has begun against him so really calma.

It's just matter of Rule of Law, , you are going to process him on Goallegacy

[Hapless_Hans]

Surely noone 'd defend CR for a rape here.
Personally I don't care because I feel these are just bulls×its
I can't believe CR has made this , personally not a great fan of crap gossip news, It 's usually stuff for old women who drink cups of tea in the afternoon ( I believe this happens in civilized countries)

After you complained about me saying Italy were behind on this stuff compared to the rest of Europe, you make a post like this? Incredible.

This is not gossip. It was reported by one the most reputable papers in Europe and picked up by plenty respected publications throughout the world.

Then when you dismiss it as “female bullshit gossip” you’re kind of proving my initial point.

I dont' even care to defend Ronaldo (let alone, a Juve player) , while it's curious how RM fans have changed attitudine towards him after his transfer to Juve

Simply I believe in presumption of innocence, not even a process has begun against him so really calma.

It's just matter of Rule of Law, , you are going to process him on Goallegacy

He isn't innocent, he's guilty. Process over.

[Robespierre]

When there is police investigation regarding a crime, because this would be a crime, it's not gossip.

And this is exactly what I said earlier people already taking hard position without waiting for due process. When Cosby was accused of drugging and raping women many did not believe it too.

Also what you said earlier about women in Italy is no different from the Western world. What you did not address though is the way those same women are objectified on tv, close up on their legs their attire. Women flashing their chest, the way you are basically just putting 10/10 models to populate the screen while men talk football? That's the type of behavior I have seen from sports media in Italy and it's not like that in the US

Jesus Christ, just because Kaladin posted that vid by Sportitalia, that garbage Criscitello programme of an useless channel ( I don't even have idea where it is )

But I give up, people never been in Italy in their life think to know Italy more than Italians who live in Italy since they were born.

[Vlad the Impaler]

Maybe we have some future lawyers here, Robes. Let them practice.

Just kidding. Truth is that a lot of subjects are discussed over the internet and you could argue that often there’s no real impact on the matter itself, especially on social, economical or legal issues...so, they shouldn’t be discussed at all because it’s pointless. Raising awareness? That might happen and it is a solid reason to do so. But after all, we are discussing things, we have different views and we are all free to choose to continue or stop at any time regardless of the arguments or opinions of others as long as the admins and mods allow it of course.

So, if you want to judge this whole thing with Ronaldo on GL, why not do it? A user is entitled with the freedom of expression. We also judge everything else about football and a lot of other political or social stuff in their respective subforum. Can it be pointless? Can it say somethting about the users and their character? Yes. That’s the whole charm about forums. Even your point of view is a good example in regard to this paradigm of seeing things that I am talking about.

P.S. Even though it might sound like that, this post isn’t addressed only to you. It’s just something general.

[Robespierre]

But what does it mean ' investigation ' ?

It is a mandatory act that it must be "opened" after some declarations. If there are relevant elements,  it begins a process. Otherwise nothing.

I remember Real Madrid wanted to denounce us for Modric, FIFA opened investigations and after it realized the bullshits said by  Perez everything was rejected

On this basis - personally -  I didn't even care about the matter (gossip was a banalization , of course). It sounds weird to me for the character and tbf the fact of these rumours after 8 long years ........

I am going to inform me if situation evolves ( I mean, a process. not an investigation)  but of course I hope not. Not for CR7 ( let alone Juve player etc etc )
but because rape is an act worse even than murder. It kills souls and it marks you for the whole existence ( I don't remember who was , but there was an ancient civilization that considered rape worse than murder. and I agree)

Simply this, plain and simple,
it's insane to read " Italy   strikes me as a country that will do their utmost to protect the male hegemony and by extension".
Italy is not a misogynist country that enslaves women.

[Mr Nick09]

@Robes, i wonder if you even took the time to read the piece Der Spiegel put together. From the post you just made, i will assume that you did not.

It's a police investigation because when the incident happened 9 years ago, she reported it to the police, she was afraid to name him specifically at the time, but she reported it. However because a civil settlement was reached and because of lack of information (she was not cooperating enough), the police closed the case. She also did a rape kit which presented evidences consistent with forced penetration. Because the incident had been reported as a crime 9 years ago, and the perpetrator has now been identified, they are able to investigate because it is a criminal investigation. There is no statute of limitation in Las Vegas for rape as long as it was reported and documented by the police, which is the second most serious crime in that state after murder.  

This has nothing to do with Madrid reporting Inter, are you serious? this is the type of comparison you make in a case as serious as this? this is a joke surely.

and what i said about italy, has been true for most western countries including the US until about 1 year or so ago. I meant no offense, i only asked a question and expressed doubt. But you coming here and calling this criminal accusation "gossip" which only old women spend their time talking about, surely proved me wrong

[Luca]

Anyone can read the suit from Der Spiegel, you only need to understand that everything in that suit is the claims from only one party, not yet disputed by Ronaldo’s camp. Of course it looks bulletproof, it was written by a team of lawyers with the intent of recovering damages.

I’m glad there’s a few sensible people here, at least

[Robespierre]

I already explained what I meant above @Nick
Sincerely it'd be boring to repeat same things
If it is understandable it's good ( I suppose Luca is agreeing with me ) , otherwise peace.

[Zagadka]

After you complained about me saying Italy were behind on this stuff compared to the rest of Europe, you make a post like this? Incredible.

This is not gossip. It was reported by one the most reputable papers in Europe and picked up by plenty respected publications throughout the world.

Then when you dismiss it as “female bullshit gossip” you’re kind of proving my initial point.

I dont' even care to defend Ronaldo (let alone, a Juve player) , while it's curious how RM fans have changed attitudine towards him after his transfer to Juve

Simply I believe in presumption of innocence, not even a process has begun against him so really calma.

It's just matter of Rule of Law, , you are going to process him on Goallegacy

He isn't innocent, he's guilty. Process over.

Do you have a signed paper rubbed stamped by Court of Law stating that? An allegation, investigation, and convictions are all different things. Do you remember the case of Ched Evans? It took him almost FIVE YEARS (And doing over 30 months in jail) before he could clear his name legally ... because you know "RAPIST" is perhaps the worst tag one can carry around. It's just vile.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/14/footballer-ched-evans-cleared-of-in-retrial

Jesus, one of the best things about true "democracies" is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I remember reading about it one of the first things when moving forward: "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!" , probably the most important belief in the judicial system to keep it uncorrupted.

Clearly many people swing with the "GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT" motto which is exactly the line toes by likes of Stalin, Ayatollahs, House-al-Saud kings, and the likes.

Until the Kommander is convicted without any shred of doubt by the court....or he admits he did that terrible crime, then he's innocent. Innocent if you believe in "Democratic" judicial system anyways ...

[Nishankly]

Agree with Zagadalka the great four legged bear from Siberia.

Innocent until proven guilty. But an accusation now days is enough to ruin a person's life. Not taking sides here as im neutral until there is a verdict.

[Mr Nick09]

I firmly deny the accusations being issued against me. Rape is an abominable crime that goes against everything that I am and believe in. Keen as I may be to clear my name, I refuse to feed the media spectacle created by people seeking to promote themselves at my expense.

— Cristiano Ronaldo (@Cristiano) October 3, 2018

My clear conscious will thereby allow me to await with tranquillity the results of any and all investigations.

— Cristiano Ronaldo (@Cristiano) October 3, 2018

[RealGunner]

I hope this goes to proper investigation so that his name gets cleared or he gets prosecuted because no one knows what exactly happened other than Ronaldo and the girl. We don't have any empirical evidence. It's all 'alleged' 'reported'

What I will say is that if it was someone like Dele Alli being accused for it, i would have no doubt that there is something definitely wrong. But someone like Ronaldo? who has spent his entire career working on his image and being an absolute pro. It's hard to believe.

But we'll see. I am glad he released that statement.

[CBarca]

Honestly if the facts of the case as presented in Spiegel are true, then you have to go through some very intense mental gymnastics to believe nothing happened. It's all right there, it's pretty obvious.

Obviously, however, within the court of law Ronaldo is still innocent and should be presumed as such. I'll wait until there is an investigation before confirming, but he's probably done it.

[Freeza]

That statement is ridiculous.

My clear conscious will thereby allow me to await with tranquillity the results of any and all investigations.

Also, there is evidence. We just haven't seen it, but it's been used to write the article and it has been mentioned in the tweet-thread and article if people bothered to read it. The question is whether the information is conclusive or not.

This isn't a he-said / she-said anymore.

Also is it really that shocking Ronaldo would do it? He's the most powerful person in football, combined with being egomaniacal. Not exactly sympathetic on the field either.
I'd be surprised if someone like Vazquez did it. Not Ronaldo.

[Luca]

I wouldn't be shocked at all. He was 24, he could've been drunk, context is everything.

Leave the evidence work to the courts, because evidence and the validity of evidence is another matter

[CBarca]

People will talk about jumping to conclusions here and I think that's a really fair thing to talk about

Kinda horrified at the same time to read these people also saying "sex victims are almost always believed" and the like.

Honestly, you gotta be *bleep* kidding me. If this is something that you believe, I don't think you've interacted with many women or got to know them well. It's shocking, and honestly a year or two ago I was in that position as well, saying such things. But with everything that's happened in the past two years, and being open and receptive, I must say I am of a very, very different opinion now.

[CBarca]

I gotta say I'm in two minds about these "years after" rape allegations of late. I get it that the victim might not mentally be ready or willing to pursue the accusation straight after. But I also cannot help but feel that it shouldn't take years to decide that "I'm reporting it".

I agree, I'm not really in support of these "even years after the rapist raped someone, they get to be prosecuted for, you know, raping someone" laws

My god.

Imagine if she didn't do the smart thing she did and get a rape kit

[Freeza]

People will talk about jumping to conclusions here and I think that's a really fair thing to talk about

Kinda horrified at the same time to read these people also saying "sex victims are almost always believed" and the like.

Honestly, you gotta be *bleep* kidding me. If this is something that you believe, I don't think you've interacted with many women or got to know them well. It's shocking, and honestly a year or two ago I was in that position as well, saying such things. But with everything that's happened in the past two years, and being open and receptive, I must say I am of a very, very different opinion now.

I was honestly shocked to hear at journalism school how many women in my class had been sexually harassed or abused in some way. It opened my eyes in a lot of ways. It has never been something I've given much thought to myself, as I often believed Denmark was mainly above it in some ways.

Worst thing about it for me, was how normalised it had all become. Like it was just a part of their lives and they had to protect each other whenever they were in social settings.

I don't even think it's getting better right now. Hope it is. At least in Denmark.

Just read about some old traditions in Danish high-school called putte-middag (translated to: freshmen-dinner).

Here the 18 year old seniors invite the youngest students, they find attractive (15 year olds) to dinners where the use peer pressure to make the girls drink tequila and wrestle eachother's clothes off and kiss eachother as some part of an initiation to the school.

And somehow those boys think that's okay. It's a perverse kind of power abuse by older students.
(https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/ekspert-om-puttemiddage-i-nordsjaelland-det-er-en-oevelse-i-magtdemonstration)

That news isn't even the worst. Can't find the link right now, but last month a story broke that a 9th grade class gave awards to girls all the way down to 4th grade. Awards with the title "You'll be hot when you're 15" or something.

[Ion Creanga]

People will talk about jumping to conclusions here and I think that's a really fair thing to talk about

Kinda horrified at the same time to read these people also saying "sex victims are almost always believed" and the like.

Honestly, you gotta be *bleep* kidding me. If this is something that you believe, I don't think you've interacted with many women or got to know them well. It's shocking, and honestly a year or two ago I was in that position as well, saying such things. But with everything that's happened in the past two years, and being open and receptive, I must say I am of a very, very different opinion now.

I was honestly shocked to hear at journalism school how many women in my class had been sexually harassed or abused in some way. It opened my eyes in a lot of ways. It has never been something I've given much thought to myself, as I often believed Denmark was mainly above it in some ways.

Worst thing about it for me, was how normalised it had all become. Like it was just a part of their lives and they had to protect each other whenever they were in social settings.

I don't even think it's getting better right now. Hope it is. At least in Denmark.

Just read about some old traditions in Danish high-school called putte-middag (translated to: freshmen-dinner).

Here the 18 year old seniors invite the youngest students, they find attractive (15 year olds) to dinners where the use peer pressure to make the girls drink tequila and wrestle eachother's clothes off and kiss eachother as some part of an initiation to the school.

And somehow those boys think that's okay. It's a perverse kind of power abuse by older students.
(https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/ekspert-om-puttemiddage-i-nordsjaelland-det-er-en-oevelse-i-magtdemonstration)

That news isn't even the worst. Can't find the link right now, but last month a story broke that a 9th grade class gave awards to girls all the way down to 4th grade. Awards with the title "You'll be hot when you're 15" or something.

dude, that's like giving flowers in rural Eastern Europe

[Freeza]

That was actually kind of my point

Denmark is probably the best place for women in world. And stuff like that is probably the norm here. And if it is like that here, how bad must it be other places.

[Casciavit]

Apparently her lawyers are holding a press conference right now:

https://www.facebook.com/8NewsNOW/videos/2114103952186757/

[Thimmy]

Sexual harrassment in the workplace is relatively common in Sweden and Norway, as well. I get the impression that it's substantially more common in many other countries, though. I've experienced two extremes, in regard to sexual harrasment while working in Sweden and Norway. I've seen disgusting levels of sexual harrasment at work parties, and I've also been in a workplace environment where people got called out for being sexist because someone accused them of giving them the wrong look, or in a setting where someone had constructive, work-related criticism regarding work attire, that someone interpreted as a personal attack/sexism.

Even in my current workplace, I witnessed a co-worker get accused of being creepy and sleasy because he made a poor joke about a female co-worker, after she loudly complained about being tired from her honeymoon. The woman in question, and her female colleagues/friends (who have never interacted with him), all went and told the boss. The woman could've solved the situation more sensibly by simply telling him that she didn't appreciate the joke, before making the decision to express her frustration to the boss. Talk it out, find a middle ground. He's normally a sensible guy, and isn't known to crack jokes out of nowhere. Instead, she created a poor work environment, and spread the rumor that he was a sexist creep, which he found out through his own daughter. So much for being a boring and quiet teacher for 15 years.

I think sexual harrasment in the workplace is a genuine issue that should have gotten attention a long time ago, but at the same time, I firmly believe that this new victimization culture perpetrated by both women and men, is often doing more harm than good towards solving or improving the issue. From my own personal experience, women are in many cases taken seriously when they report being abused or harrassed in the workplace. It's a privilege that few seem to hesitate to use, these days.

Men who experience similar scenarios, however, don't seem to warrant the same level of attention. I have encountered one of two of those, as well. Somehow, a lot of people don't seem to understand that sexual harrasment towards men is a thing. And bullying seems to be largely perceived as something grown men should be able to suck up and handle without causing a fuzz. I realize that I'm generalizing here, but this is all based on what I've seen in person. I've discussed the topic with a few friends, and even they think that men should just stick up for themselves or find another job. I get the impression that this matter is gradually improving and decreasing in scale, at least regarding women, but men will probably have to suck it up for a few more decades since there's still a high degree of expectancy towards us being tough and strong. Sexual harrasment perpetrated by females is some of the most disgusting, unrestrained shit I've ever seen, and I think that double standard will get more attention in the future.

[Mr Nick09]

BTW @Cristiano is suspended for @selecaoportugal during the ongoing investigation over rape allegations. https://t.co/AMEflPckGM

— Juan G. Arango

https://twitter.com/JuanG_Arango/status/1047830768255455232

[guest7]

I read he is not suspended but he asked to not be called up?

EDIT: Yup newspapers are saying he asked to not play for the national team 2018

[rincon]

He already didn't play the last matches, he asked not be called up after the world cup

[Robespierre]

That was actually kind of my point

Denmark is probably the best place for women in world. And stuff like that is probably the norm here. And if it is like that here, how bad must it be other places.

I was in Stockholm two weeks ago and during a boat trip the tourist guide said us that Sweden is the best country in the world by far about gender equality, take respect to your cousins ffs

[Sponsored content]