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Post by sportsczy Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:43 pm

It's not like Asensio, Isco, Bale, Benzema and Vasquez is the worst attacking side you've ever seen lol.  Especially with the best midfield in the world behind them and Marcelo/Carvajal bombing down as well.

It will come down to motivation mostly.  We only cared about CL last season.  This style of football will get you caught out in cup play... I don't see us winning CL this season.  So I hope for the managers sake that the players concentrate on the La Liga games.  

I don't like the fact that our staff are mostly youth team coaches... that's not going to work.  I was hoping for a seasoned top flight bench coach to help out.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:52 pm

No sports we have the worst team ever since CR left, just trash. No quality whatsoever.

Lol this is nuts
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Post by The Madrid One Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:04 pm

Zidane had never coached in his life and had Bettoni as his assistant who didn't even have the required license to officially be his right hand man at one point. And youre still assuming too much about how we're going to play.
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Post by Freeza Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:07 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:No sports we have the worst team ever since CR left, just trash. No quality whatsoever.

Lol this is nuts


That Lass - Gago double pivot Proud

Def better than the current team.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:29 pm

The Madrid One wrote:Zidane had never coached in his life and had Bettoni as his assistant who didn't even have the required license to officially be his right hand man at one point. And youre still assuming too much about how we're going to play.

Yeah but Zidane worked with Mourinho as a sporting director and was the bench coach for Carlo... not to mention his playing career. You can't be more of an exception than Zidane. Everyone respected him unquestionably from day 1. No comparison.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:50 pm

It can't be only motivational. You can't hold Lopetegui to the same level of expectations as Zidane after you take his best player away from him and leave him to work with Benzema and Bale only. If Zidane didn't have Ronaldo, he wouldn't win squat. Literally. It was Ronaldo who single-handedly gave him the win countless timezs after his team was completely being dominated.

Now you could be a demonic motivational speaker, but that won't suffice when you have an incompetent CF up top.

It's good to be optimist. I never tried it myself, but I hear it's a good thing. But I can promise you, and you can quote me later on this, that Benzema will not magically turn into Ronaldo and shower you with goals.

He's not good enough to be the starter and it's unfair to Lopetegui to give him such a mediocre player to work with
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Post by sportsczy Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:12 pm

you do remember in what state we were when Zidane took over I hope...  there's a reason rafa got fired.

I think it's 100x harder to take over a team mid season... you have zero prep time. Need to somehow figure it out on the fly, and he did. Even then, they were talking about replacing Zidane at the end of the season when we lost a couple of games lol.

Madrid is Madrid. You win or you're out. No exceptions. We lost CR but it's an elite squad WITHOUT a doubt and you have Isco maturing and Bale healthy. It's not like the cupboard is bear by any stretch of the imagination. I'd say we still arguably have the most talented team in Europe. Only Barca can claim to be better.


Last edited by sportsczy on Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Madrid One Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:15 pm

sportsczy wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:Zidane had never coached in his life and had Bettoni as his assistant who didn't even have the required license to officially be his right hand man at one point. And youre still assuming too much about how we're going to play.

Yeah but Zidane worked with Mourinho as a sporting director and was the bench coach for Carlo... not to mention his playing career.  You can't be more of an exception than Zidane.  Everyone respected him unquestionably from day 1.  No comparison.
You mentioned wanting a seasoned top bench coach staff and i gave you an example of someone who clearly wasn't, that's my comparison. You're talking more about image. Anyways, the key point is that you don't even know who these people are and you already are making big assumptions about how we will play, how we will lose, and why we will fail.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:16 pm

Of course, but that has nothing to do with the fact that Ronaldo was instrumental in Zidane's success, and that without him, the Frenchman's time at the Bernabeu might've had a completely different outcome.

Lopetegui is being asked to deliver as much as Zidane after they took his only reliable goalscorer away from and without even having the courtesy to give him someone decent to work with? That sounds unfair to me.

He could motivate them all he wants, but he'll always need a real head breaker to bail him out just like Ronaldo did for Zidane countless times.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:19 pm

I'm not entitled to my opinion then?  You're free to assume we'll be great.  I'm assuming that we're going to struggle... new system, inexeperienced coaching staff, wc year, question marks on the attack.

To me, there are too many variables.  No need to add even more variables was my point.

And we all know excuses mean nothing and pressure is on very early. Need to get results regardless.
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Post by The Madrid One Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:21 pm

Bottom line DoC is that Lopetegui has to do the best with what he has and if he gets fired despite the context not supporting the decision then it is more on Perez. If Lopetegui rightfully flops as a coach then fire him.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:22 pm

He's not being asked to deliver as much. Nobody expects that level of success... BUT, he can't flop. He needs to get deep in cup competitions and compete in La Liga if he wants to stay around without winning a trophy.

We've never let a coach hang around without winning trophy though... fair or not. So I'm skeptical.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:24 pm

I would feel more comfortable if we EITHER had a full squad for preseason to get the new style going OR we played similar tactics so players barely getting a kick in before the season wouldn't be so bad... Only reason I'm very worried is the circumstances leading into the season.

We have to figure a lot out very quickly. I hope Barca and Atleti start out slow too tbh... not fall to far behind while we settle.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:32 pm

I will not hold Lopetegui responsible for not delivering. Sure he has an amazing midfield and defense, but you need to score goals to win games. And I feel the club has cheapened out a lot and left him without any reliable option to work with.

Perez should have the biggest part of the blame if we don't win a major trophy this year. His cheapness and stupid mistakes have resulted in us having a crappy attack that could seriously put any chance of us lifting a major trophy this year in jeopardy.

Now I understand why Zidane stepped down. Poor Lopetegui.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:43 pm

what cheapness and stupid mistakes?
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Post by Thimmy Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:48 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:It can't be only motivational. You can't hold Lopetegui to the same level of expectations as Zidane after you take his best player away from him and leave him to work with Benzema and Bale only. If Zidane didn't have Ronaldo, he wouldn't win squat. Literally. It was Ronaldo who single-handedly gave him the win countless timezs after his team was completely being dominated.



Ramos has been ridiculously decisive under Zidane's tenure, as well. If him and Morata hadn't provided a miracle-level ability to decide matches with clutch goals during the first half of the season, then Zidane's second season at the club would've probably gone down as one of the weakest in the club's history, performance-wise. Instead, it will be remembered as the season when we won the double. The greater bulk of our performances that season were outright depressing.

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/real-madrid/2016-17/fixtures-and-results.html
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:00 pm

It's pretty self-explanatory, Nick. He's cheap because he doesn't want to spend big to strengthen a very important and weakened position. He's also cheap for sticking with Benzema instead of signing a decent alternative. He's also cheap for not giving Ronaldo a raise when he clearly doesn't have an adequate replacement lined-up.

The stupid mistakes he did was mainly with Ronaldo. If you don't have a proper replacement, why did you let him go? Wouldn't it be easier to give him a raise, keep him for a year or two until you have more alternatives in the market?

Like I said, I have no problem with keeping our midfield and defense intact. What drives me crazy is the fact that Florentino is completely oblivious to the dire situation of our attack.

It doesn't matter how you flip it, if your main CF is Benzema, you're not ambitious enough and there's clearly something wrong with the way you're running the club. That's Florentino for you.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:07 pm

Thimmy wrote:
The Demon of Carthage wrote:It can't be only motivational. You can't hold Lopetegui to the same level of expectations as Zidane after you take his best player away from him and leave him to work with Benzema and Bale only. If Zidane didn't have Ronaldo, he wouldn't win squat. Literally. It was Ronaldo who single-handedly gave him the win countless timezs after his team was completely being dominated.



Ramos has been ridiculously decisive under Zidane's tenure, as well. If him and Morata hadn't provided a miracle-level ability to decide matches with clutch goals during the first half of the season, then Zidane's second season at the club would've probably gone down as one of the weakest in the club's history, performance-wise. Instead, it will be remembered as the season when we won the double. The greater bulk of our performances that season were outright depressing.

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/real-madrid/2016-17/fixtures-and-results.html

I completely agree. People seem to have forgotten that Z was bailed out countless times by individual brilliance. Ronaldo was one of the main players who single-handedly won Zidane games he screwed up tactically.

If you're going to take Ronaldo away from Lopetegui, at least have the decency to replace him with someone half-decent. To give him just Benzema and injury-prone Bale to work with is not only unfair but borderline crazy, and it shows a clear lack of ambition on Florentino's part.

You know, I'm seriously beginning to think he's saving all the money for the stadium renovation. I read that the IPIC sponsorship fell through (not sure whether it's true or not though). Maybe he's trying to pay some of it with Madrid money and that's the reason he's not spending as much as he should on transfers.

Either that or he seriously has money issues. Cause this lack of transfer activities is alarming.
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Post by titosantill Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:24 pm

the only thing one can hold perez responsible for are transfers, and the market is not closed. however, if the coach is publicly saying his team is fine and is also privately telling mgt that his team is fine and putting no pressure on them for signings, then the coach is the one to be held accountable

if you are assuring the president all is well, and you're just agreeing with everything, you don't have a list of potential interests you as a manager would like, then the outcome isn't on the president but on the manager. but lets see what happens in the market.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:54 pm

Absolutely. If Lopetegui says the squad he has is perfect and there's no need to get anybody else, he should be held accountable as well if he doesn't win major trophies.

But my point is, regardless of whether or not the coach gets part of the blame or most of it, Florentino should be held responsible as well for his very questionable decision-making, for purposely weakening our attack and for refusing to strength it afterwards.

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Post by titosantill Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:08 pm

he didn't purposely weaken our attack, even if cristiano stayed it's been obvious that there needs to be some reshuffling. he made a business decision, if cristiano was say 4 years younger the outcome would have been different. its not that he's refusing to strengthen the squad. he's in a tough situation, the players he likes he can't get the ones he can get the clubs are asking for an arm and a leg

take into account, we've won 3 straight UCLs, there's tons of jealousy, no top club is going to just give us players that easily. not to mention, they're aware of the funding we've got from sales of late.  i'm still optimistic that he'll make some type of move, but its not as easy....its like when barca sold neymar and all of a sudden guys who should be costing 25 million euros are costing 120. the obvious fear i have is, if he gets way too careful all our targets will end up elsewhere ala mbappe

but its up to the coach to also have a list of the players he wants and needs, his list might be different from flo's...but if the coach has no list and is happy to play company man, then that's on him....i just pray the club has something up the sleeves....presently constructed, this team is NOT doing jack@#*$
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:30 pm

The situation wasn't that difficult to resolve, I think. He should've looked at all the options at his disposal and make a decision accordingly.

'Can I afford to let Ronaldo go'? 'If I do, do I have a replacement?' 'No?' 'Then I'll stick to Ronaldo until someone comes up.'

These are the questions he should've asked himself before selling him only to realize there was nobody elite available. It's such a rookie mistake.
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Post by The Madrid One Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:35 pm

Transfer window isn't closed yet, we'll see what happens.

As for Lopetegui, i assume he and Perez know what's going on and not many more, no need for him to come out this early in his Madrid career and make public demands.

As people who comment on Spanish media sites have pointed out, media hardly knew much about Ronaldo, Lopetegui, or even Celades situations until they pretty much happened, point being there is plenty of stuff we don't know.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:51 pm

Isn't it actually easier to let CR go after you have won a 3-peat of CL? i think so.

you make it sound like we could have sold him at anytime, but did you not wonder why there was only one club trying to sign "the best player ever"? because everyone is scared for a 33 years old making that type of money.

If we had given him the contract he wanted, he would have never left; and his remaining contract years would have been a nightmare with 0 options to rebuild.

So again, i hardly see this as a mistake, i think it's a calculated move which arranged everyone at the end of the day. And let's not pretend for a moment that CR did not push his way out as well.
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Post by Turok_TTZ Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:12 am

The one day I'm recuperating ans DoC goes ham again. While I don't blame him for acting like this considering we did lose the kommander, DoC needs to take a good hard look at our team.

We're still very strong and our midfield is still the best in the world. our club is placing trust in Bale, Benz, Asensio, and Isco to ensure we come out of a post CR7 era fine.

whether thats a good decision or not will be decided by time. One needs to have patience with this madrid side.

new coach new roles new everything. for all we know we could win nothing this year or everything if all the pieces fall into place.

in any case while I don't disagree that we need reinforcement upfront to provide cover and depth, our situation is far from dire. quite far imo. dont forget we beat liverpool with CR7 ghosting that game. The duo of Benz and Bale defended our throne proper.

is Courtois coming or is chelsea gonna give him to us for free?
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Post by titosantill Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:18 am

that's really cute, but we aren't going head to head against liverpool in la liga. a draw is like a loss in the league. we dropped a couple of points in october, and already the league was lost, we're going against a side that lost one game last season and have added some changes.

and whilst i do not agree with DoC, with respect to the cristiano situation, (I'm totally in agreement with nick's last point), it's extremely gutsy, damn near suicidal for anyone to put our fate in the hands of isco asensio bale and benzema.....the one common theme with all 4 so far has been inconsistency. in benzema's case he's been consistently crap, i'm not going to bring up all those hattrick of misses against valencia at home last season. liverpool was one game, we're talking about a season of 50/60 plus games

a top quality striker (not some bench warmer) a winger (or midfielder) and a center back should be top priority right now....and i seriously doubt we are going into the season as is, the math doesn't add up.
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