Is Argentina the most underperforming NT of the past 30 years?

They've been getting results, making it to three finals in a row is a sign that you must be doing something right. It's just Argentina lacks clutch.

Consider this, last competitive game Argentina has lost with Messi during 90 min was against Venezuela 12.10.11, 5 years ago. During this time they only lost in ET to Germany World Cup final, and two SO losses to Chile in Copa America finals. Now they have lost 2 games and gotten 7/21 points in 7 games in WCQ18 without him.

Please tell me again how Messi doesn't carry Argentina, and isn't the best nt-player ever?

Why did you make this about Messi?

Everything is about Messi dude. You need to keep up. Harmonica's life revolves around the concept of the "the six degrees of separation from Messi".

Argentina = Messi

I mean...

Aguero for Argentina = nothing
Di Maria = nothing
Higuain = pretty much nothing
Tevez = something, but not there any more
Mascherano = lol
Rojo = lololololol
Demichelis = I can't even....
All the rest of them = These guys play for Arg NT?!?

I'd just like to hear his answer, to see how hilarious it is.

Harmonica wrote:Netherlands and Robben went from dominating free flowing football to defensive and Robben having 6 whole touches in the first half. Not because Argentina was good defensively, but because Netherlands had to stop Messi collectively. And that's how Robben lost all support. And even then Messi showed the difference of relative quality, beating more players in a single match than anyone else in the whole tournament.

lol wat?

Messi was the Hazard of the Netherlands/Argentina match up. Did you ever think that Argentina gameplanned to stop Robben since he was the only consistent offensive threat the Netherlands had that tournament? ...and Argentina possessed far better individual quality in their team on the whole while playing a very defensive style as well.

Better question...did you even watch the tournament at all? The Netherlands played free flowing and dominating football.

hey, art also from finland

terrance511 wrote:hey, art also from finland

The land with best education system and least corruption. You do well for listening us.

Everyone keeps talking about the defense and the keeper like they aren't second in least conceded goals in the qualifiers. Since 2014 they have played 10 ko games and only conceded three times. Two of which were against Venezuela(4-1) and Paraguay(6-1). Their defense shows up, Messi does not.

Harmonica wrote:

terrance511 wrote:hey, art also from finland

The land with best education system and least corruption. You do well for listening us.

And the land of people who are afraid of socialising with others jk

Myesyats wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

terrance511 wrote:hey, art also from finland

The land with best education system and least corruption. You do well for listening us.

And the land of people who are afraid of socialising with others jk

I'd stalk the girl in your avatar.

So there's your social awkwardness myth busted.

Although you'd have to give me a two weeks' notice to move from stalking RWO to that random girl.

jk

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:Everyone keeps talking about the defense and the keeper like they aren't second in least conceded goals in the qualifiers. Since 2014 they have played 10 ko games and only conceded three times. Two of which were against Venezuela(4-1) and Paraguay(6-1). Their defense shows up, Messi does not.

Not true. We park the bus with 10 players and expect Messi to score. That's been our strategy since at least the Sabella years. Every team can keep a clean sheet if you have 10 men in your box, Pullis does it regularly.

The strategy of have Messi be both the creator and finisher obviously stops working against good teams though, he is often alone up front.

Not that I dont think the defense is good enough, though. At least during the last WC.

It's more to do with the fact that system clicked rather than how good individual talent was in defence.

Bit concerning though that Demichelis is still starting for Argentina.

Bankz wrote:@titto you can't blame the netherlands for their lose to brazil in the 98 world cup. First, Ronaldo had probably one of the most memorable world cup performances of all time on the night. I mean how could they cope with a prime ronaldo that actually wanted to give a damn, even a little? Lol

2. They still lost on penalties in that game. Not their fault taffarel decided to be on god mode for whaever reason that night. And yes, de'boar & overmars are pk scrubs I agree

i didn't blame the netherlands for that. if you read my post, i excused their 94, 98 and 2010 losses (even though robben should kick himself for not scoring); those sides were much better than they were....however they still had other choke-worthy moments besides those periods that i excused

Curtinho wrote:
If not for Mascherano the Dutch likely would have won that game. He put in one of the performances of the tournament defensively. He put his ass on the line for that game.



Match saving tackle that. Clear goal otherwise.

mascherano only made that tackle and put in that performance because messi "deflated the opposing team's tactics" lol

its a bit funny

someone says messi did nothing against holland..

harmonica responds with one clip to show how he played well against holland

and the counter argument is one clip that consisted of what.. 7 seconds of 120 minutes to say "no X player played better heres a clip"

all arguments seem dumb
a man of the match or MVP is decided in 10 seconds of play out of 120 minutes?

even if he posted every minute of messi's play in that game, argentina had about 2 or 3 players on his team who were better than he was that day, mainly defenders....so much for the "deflate opposition teams tactics" argument. masch demichelis and garay were fantastic on the night. and on offense one could argue lavezzi and enzo were the most lively players for argentina....

unless messi's "deflating tactics" idea included him providing a decoy by sitting back and letting the others shine, with his ultimate plan of outsmarting the dutch to lose by PKs

im not here saying messi was the best or anything just the whole argument or page two of this thread is funny and dumb

I wasn't using 7 seconds to show Mascherano was the best, only that he put his ass on the line for the team. It was a joke, sort of.

lol not sure if its funny, dumb maybe (i've always thought it was)....but putting up seven second clips after any argentine loss showing things like dribbles, "assists to the assist" of a missed shot, has been a common theme on here for quite some time, its not new. we see this after every argentine loss...the only difference being, this time someone actually responded with a seven second clip of their own to give some shine to someone else

Last competitive game Argentina has lost with Messi during 90 min was against Venezuela 12.10.11, over 5 years ago. Since then they only lost in ET to Germany World Cup final, and two SO losses to Chile in Copa America finals.

Last 5 years competitive record

Argentina with Messi 24-6-3
Argentina without Messi 3-4-3

For their collective game Argentina has actually overachieved, but that's because Messi has carried them to top of qualification and three major finals.