How much credit will Cristiano receive if Portugal win the EURO's ?

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Post by Bankz Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:36 pm

If things remain like this, he'll be giving credit still by die hard fans of course albeit undeservedly.. But if he beasts in the semi's and final, well, you guess is as good as mine.

Long story short, he'll be given credit either ways, wether he plays like shit or not

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Post by Doc Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:09 pm

"No way it's happening" is the same thing a good few of us said including Cruiff and Lucy before Madrid became 11 time European champions so let's not pretend this cannot happen.
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Post by Thimmy Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:22 am

Bankz wrote:If things remain like this, he'll be giving credit still by die hard fans of course albeit undeservedly.. But if he beasts in the semi's and final, well, you guess is as good as mine.

Long story short, he'll be given credit either ways, wether he plays like shit or not


I have no doubt that he would receive a lot of attention if they somehow win it, but a lot of it would definitely still be negative, if he keeps performing to the same, low standard. He's been expected to carry his national team, but all I've seen is his team attempting to carry him, and him letting them down in the shape of wasting the precious service he gets, and him expressing unnecessary negativity as soon as things don't go their way. He's clearly devoted to his tantrums, but I don't see the same effort in his performances.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:48 am

Doc wrote:"No way it's happening" is the same thing a good few of us said including Cruiff and Lucy before Madrid became 11 time European champions so let's not pretend this cannot happen.


It's actually very similar to the Madrid run. Both sides were very poor early in the tournament but got an extremely favourable draw and grew as it went on. Both were basically handed a place in the final and all they need is one lucky one off win and they are champions.

The difference of course is that Madrid is much better than Portugal, who should be routed by any team on the other side of the bracket barring Iceland.

But I agree, anything can happen.
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Post by alexjanosik Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:40 am

Given that he has been atrocious, none. If he performs well in the SF and final, then he should deservedly get all the credit.
Portugal are just lucky they are not in the other half of the draw.
surag talking about service. Thats the difference between the GOATS and CR. The GOATS dont need service to make something happen. CR does.

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Post by farfan Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:49 am

Cruijf wrote:
Doc wrote:"No way it's happening" is the same thing a good few of us said including Cruiff and Lucy before Madrid became 11 time European champions so let's not pretend this cannot happen.


It's actually very similar to the Madrid run. Both sides were very poor early in the tournament but got an extremely favourable draw and grew as it went on. Both were basically handed a place in the final and all they need is one lucky one off win and they are champions.

The difference of course is that Madrid is much better than Portugal, who should be routed by any team on the other side of the bracket barring Iceland.

But I agree, anything can happen.


How can you say that  Portugal were handed a place in the final thanks to a favourable draw when just last week you were hailing Croatia as a potential tournament favourite and predicting a one sided affair in favor of the croats ?  hmm  

So just like that they went from tournament dark horses to a " gift " for a mighty Portugal on their route to an easy final ? hmm
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Post by S Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:11 am

Cruijf wrote:
Doc wrote:"No way it's happening" is the same thing a good few of us said including Cruiff and Lucy before Madrid became 11 time European champions so let's not pretend this cannot happen.


It's actually very similar to the Madrid run. Both sides were very poor early in the tournament but got an extremely favourable draw and grew as it went on. Both were basically handed a place in the final and all they need is one lucky one off win and they are champions.

The difference of course is that Madrid is much better than Portugal, who should be routed by any team on the other side of the bracket barring Iceland.

But I agree, anything can happen.

Laughing

Werent you one of those banging on about how shit they were and insisting they wont go anywhere ? Laughing

Now Portugal are 'gifted' an easy draw apparently rofl

Do you realize they were NOWHERE NEAR the pre-tournament favorites ? (Unlike Madrid in the CL ?)

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Post by Thimmy Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:43 am

alexjanosik wrote:Given that he has been atrocious, none. If he performs well in the SF and final, then he should deservedly get all the credit.
Portugal are just lucky they are not in the other half of the draw.
surag talking about service. Thats the difference between the GOATS and CR. The GOATS dont need service to make something happen. CR does.


How am I supposed to convince anyone that I don't give a shit about CR, when people write nonsensical posts like this? FFS Laughing
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:06 am

How exactly is it nonsensical? I genuinely can't find anything in that post that is even remotely disputable Laughing

S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:
Doc wrote:"No way it's happening" is the same thing a good few of us said including Cruiff and Lucy before Madrid became 11 time European champions so let's not pretend this cannot happen.


It's actually very similar to the Madrid run. Both sides were very poor early in the tournament but got an extremely favourable draw and grew as it went on. Both were basically handed a place in the final and all they need is one lucky one off win and they are champions.

The difference of course is that Madrid is much better than Portugal, who should be routed by any team on the other side of the bracket barring Iceland.

But I agree, anything can happen.

Laughing

Werent you one of those banging on about how shit they were and insisting they wont go anywhere ? Laughing

Now Portugal are 'gifted' an easy draw apparently rofl

Do you realize they were NOWHERE NEAR the pre-tournament favorites ? (Unlike Madrid in the CL ?)



How exactly are these contradictory? They are horrible, and they were gifted a joke of a road to the final.
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Post by S Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:17 am

But werent you saying Croatia should easily beat Portugal ? So they are now given a joke of a road to the final ?

Portugal should be blamed for getting easy draws because England and Spain couldnt top their group ? This is not Champions league where you pick a ball from the pot and 'gift' an easy opponent. Stop with the nonsense.

And i should mention again, unlike Madrid, they are nowhere near favorites to win the competition. If you are saying they are terrible and should go out early(against the superior Croatia) , you are CLEARLY contradicting yourself by saying they got a easy road. You rate the opponent higher than Portugal and we are supposed to believe its an indisputable argument ? lol . Atleast own up to your words instead of making up excuses.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:24 am

Croatia shouldve easily beat Portugal. The fact that they choked doesn't change the fact Portugal is still rubbish. They haven't beaten a team in 90 minutes and are going to be in the final of the Euro Laughing

Not to mention they had the easiest group by far and finished third, were thoroughly outplayed by Hungary, and tied probably the worst team of the tournament in Austria.

There is absolutely no way to spin this to say Portugal are even somewhat decent. If you really think a team that couldn't beat Hungary, Iceland, or Austria deserves to be in the final of the Euro you either have an agenda or are completely clueless.
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Post by S Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:24 am

Oh and yeah, lets blame Portugal because Wales kicked  out one of the pre-tournament favorites in Belgium Laughing (rated much higher than Portugal at least by a majority)
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:26 am

On the idea of them having an easy road, I'm excluding Croatia. They were certainly not an easy opponent. But to play Iceland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Wales and be in the final of the Euro is ludicrous. And as anyone who saw the game against Croatia will tell you, Portugal winning wasn't because they were good, but rather because they were a tiny bit less awful on the night.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:27 am

You're confusing two things here. I don't blame Portugal for having an easy road. I blame them for sucking. Them having an easy road I blame on UEFA and their idiocy.
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Post by Doc Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:28 am

I don't know, if you reach a final, you deserve to be there.
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Post by S Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:30 am

Cruijf wrote:

There is absolutely no way to spin this to say Portugal are even somewhat decent. If you really think a team that couldn't beat Hungary, Iceland, or Austria deserves to be in the final of the Euro you either have an agenda or are completely clueless.


Do you realize Italy won a world cup without winning a group stage match which had Cameroon and Peru in the group ? Laughing Knockouts is where the real business begins.

Yes, i'm the clueless one  because i'm not flip-flopping about Portugal going from 'they are shit and should go out early' to 'they are being GIFTED a joke of a road to the final'.

Ok Cruijff Laughing


Last edited by S on Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:31 am

@Doc: Completely disagree. If you believe the final should consist of the two best teams in the tournament than reaching it means jack. Especially if the bracket is broken and the three best teams of the tournament (all of whom topped their groups) are on one side.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:32 am

Does anyone here think Portugal is better than two of Italy, France, and Germany? If not, they shouldn't be in the final. And if you do you're clueless.
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Post by S Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:36 am

Cruijf wrote:On the idea of them having an easy road, I'm excluding Croatia. They were certainly not an easy opponent. But to play Iceland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Wales and be in the final of the Euro is ludicrous. And as anyone who saw the game against Croatia will tell you, Portugal winning wasn't because they were good, but rather because they were a tiny bit less awful on the night.


Dear god. Do you realize anything of this wouldnt have happened if England, Belgium and Spain topped their group ? Do you realize they were the top seeds in their respective groups ?

The only ludicrous thing here is Portugal getting blamed for getting easy draws. This is not Champions league where you can handpick Roma or Wolfsburg for Real Madrid. Common.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:40 am

Let me break it down because it seems you're confusing my points:

1. Portugal is not among the top 3 teams in this tournament
2. They should thus not be in the final.
3. If they were on the other side of the bracket they would not be in the final

What exactly do you disagree with?
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Post by S Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:52 am

But, its not their fault they're at the other side of the draw ? Besides werent they expected to lose to Croatia ? Why are you excluding them ? They would've only got so far if they had beaten Croatia and they have.

Whether or not they are top 3 teams in the tournament right now is irrelevant to me because its unfair to blame them for getting this path as underdog teams are beating the favourites. People would've found something to complain about had they faced Belgium too...

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Post by farfan Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:58 am

Cruijf wrote:On the idea of them having an easy road, I'm excluding Croatia. They were certainly not an easy opponent. But to play Iceland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Wales and be in the final of the Euro is ludicrous. And as anyone who saw the game against Croatia will tell you, Portugal winning wasn't because they were good, but rather because they were a tiny bit less awful on the night.


How convenient hmm  you're excluding the very thing that makes their road not "  a joke " or super easy .

Croatia and Poland are respectable KO stage opponents and were favored  by many to go further than Portugal . these two are already better than anyone France has faced so far .
They avoided the obvious favorites and the traditional powerhouses , but that doesn't mean their road was easy or a joke .
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Post by Doc Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:28 am

Cruijf wrote:@Doc: Completely disagree. If you believe the final should consist of the two best teams in the tournament than reaching it means jack. Especially if the bracket is broken and the three best teams of the tournament (all of whom topped their groups) are on one side.

While ideally I wouldn't mind seeing two of the "best" teams in the tournament ducking it out in a final, I would not say a team doesn't deserve to be in a final just because I don't rate them or think they are the best of the best. If you made the final, you deserve to be there.
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Post by alexjanosik Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:29 am

Thimmy wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Given that he has been atrocious, none. If he performs well in the SF and final, then he should deservedly get all the credit.
Portugal are just lucky they are not in the other half of the draw.
surag talking about service. Thats the difference between the GOATS and CR. The GOATS dont need service to make something happen. CR does.


How am I supposed to convince anyone that I don't give a shit about CR, when people write nonsensical posts like this? FFS Laughing

He has been diabolically bad besides the Hungary game. And he needs service, else he looks nowhere near elite. Madrid can provide him service throughout the 90 min. Portugal cant. And he looks painfully average for Portugal.

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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:43 am

farfan wrote:
Cruijf wrote:On the idea of them having an easy road, I'm excluding Croatia. They were certainly not an easy opponent. But to play Iceland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Wales and be in the final of the Euro is ludicrous. And as anyone who saw the game against Croatia will tell you, Portugal winning wasn't because they were good, but rather because they were a tiny bit less awful on the night.


How convenient hmm  you're excluding the very thing that makes their road not "  a joke " or super easy .

Croatia and Poland are respectable KO stage opponents and were favored  by many to go further than Portugal . these two are already better than anyone France has faced so far .
They avoided the obvious favorites and the traditional powerhouses , but that doesn't mean their road was easy or a joke .


No road to the final should have just one good team. Including the group, Portugal will have played 6 teams en route to the final: Iceland, Austria, Hungary, Croatia, Poland, and Wales. Like you said, there isn't one powerhouse or very good team in there, which to me is unacceptable. The fact they could be in the final without playing any of the top 3 teams in this tournament to me is the definition of an easy route.

Poland sure is a decent or semi-respectable team, but again they're by no means a heavy weight. Surely you can understand why I find this an abnormally easy road to the final?

This is made even worse by the fact Portugal has played very poorly all tournament. They haven't had even one good game. They were awful in the group stage, awful against Croatia, sure decent against Poland but certainly nothing Euro final worthy.

So it's a double whammy, because not only is a team getting a much easier road to the final than the teams on the other side of the bracket, but that team also happens to be rubbish.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:46 am

S wrote:But, its not their fault they're at the other side of the draw ? Besides werent they expected to lose to Croatia ? Why are you excluding them ? They would've only got so far if they had beaten Croatia and they have.

Whether or not they are top 3 teams in the tournament right now is irrelevant to me because its unfair to blame them for getting this path as underdog teams are beating the favourites. People would've found something to complain about had they faced Belgium too...



They're not getting this path because of underdogs though. Underdogs took Spain and England away from their side sure but they're not the heavyweights of this tournament (although Spain at least would probably beat Portugal). My problem is with France, Germany, and Italy all doing their job and winning their groups and ending up on the same side of the bracket while Portugal doesn't win a single game and ends up playing the likes of Poland and Wales.
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