Just how overrated is PSG?

rincon wrote:Verratti isn't Jesus. His absence should be managed, specially by a team with the resources of PSG. Every team misses players. City played without Kompany and Toure. Barca destroyed Madrid without Messi. Bayern has their squad destroyed by injuries all the time. Juve played Bayern without Marchisio, Dybala and Chiellini and beat City twice, once without Marchisio, Dybala and Khedira. Most of PSG squad in that game would start at City.

It's not just Verratti , Matuidi and Motta ( first half ) were out too .

Mr Nick09 wrote:what are the top teams? i wonder

Barca, Bayern, Juve and Atletico

The actual top is Barça Real Bayern .

I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

we are in the SF of the CL, beat the best barca of all time 2 weeks ago and not a top team ?

rincon wrote:I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

Atletico have never beaten us in Europe though

win something and then brag
you are out of the copa and third in the league, only running for the CL. Win the CL, go to the semis and final and knock out these teams. Then you will be the best.

Valkyrja wrote:

rincon wrote:I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

Atletico have never beaten us in Europe though

So? Does Real Madrid decide not to count the games played in the league? not 2 months ago you lost to them in a game that was crucial for your league.

rincon wrote:win something and then brag
you are out of the copa and third in the league, only running for the CL. Win the CL, go to the semis and final and knock out these teams. Then you will be the best.

There's a difference between the best team and a top team. Bayern, Atleti and Barca are better than us. Hopefully we'll get City or Atletico. Benfica is out of question.

rincon wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

rincon wrote:I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

Atletico have never beaten us in Europe though

So? Does Real Madrid decide not to count the games played in the league? not 2 months ago you lost to them in a game that was crucial for your league.

We have CL DNA brah

Valkyrja wrote:

rincon wrote:win something and then brag
you are out of the copa and third in the league, only running for the CL. Win the CL, go to the semis and final and knock out these teams. Then you will be the best.

There's a difference between the best team and a top team. Bayern, Atleti and Barca are better than us. Hopefully we'll get City or Atletico. Benfica is out of question.

Yeah I'm not saying Madrid are scrubs, top 5 team in the world probably. Just that teams that have recently beat and are outperforming Madrid (Barca, Atletico, Juve) and a team as complete and successful as Bayern are currently better. For that to change Madrid has to at least beat them or outperform in some competition. The league win is not gonna happen, so it has to be CL.

rincon wrote:I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

So you win one tie and you think you're better than a team that reached the semis 6 times in a row , and won the damn thing in 2014 ?

We're talking about the CL here not the league , and Madrid beat Atletico in the final and eliminated them last year .

rincon wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

rincon wrote:win something and then brag
you are out of the copa and third in the league, only running for the CL. Win the CL, go to the semis and final and knock out these teams. Then you will be the best.

There's a difference between the best team and a top team. Bayern, Atleti and Barca are better than us. Hopefully we'll get City or Atletico. Benfica is out of question.

Yeah I'm not saying Madrid are scrubs, top 5 team in the world probably. Just that teams that have recently beat and are outperforming Madrid (Barca, Atletico, Juve) and a team as complete and successful as Bayern are currently better. For that to change Madrid has to at least beat them or outperform in some competition. The league win is not gonna happen, so it has to be CL.

This season is a lost cause, that was pretty much clear from the day that fat waiter was appointed. I hope we won't end up humiliated in the next round of the CL. That would be the icing on the cake. a 4-0/5-0/5-1 defeat in the SF will lead to a total FloPe revolution in the summer. Kroos, James, Benzema are gone anyway imo.

farfan wrote:

rincon wrote:I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

So you win one tie and you think you're better than a team that reached the semis 6 times in a row , and won the damn thing in 2014 ?

We're talking about the CL here not the league , and Madrid beat Atletico in the final and eliminated them last year .

Why are we just talking about the CL? We are talking about which teams are better. If you wanna limit yourself to just the CL then, again, you lost to Juve.

All those semifinals in a row came really handy when you got eliminated last year. Winning it in 2014 means that Madrid was the best... in 2014.

rincon wrote:
Why are we just talking about the CL? We are talking about which teams are better. If you wanna limit yourself to just the CL then, again, you lost to Juve.

All those semifinals in a row came really handy when you got eliminated last year. Winning it in 2014 means that Madrid was the best... in 2014.

He has to pick the CL because that's the only common competition between them. Seria A, with all due respect, isn't as good as La Liga and I'm pretty sure Real Madrid would've won more than just 1 league in 8 years had they been playing in Italy.

Also, the fact that Real Madrid won the CL in 2014 and have reached the semi-final 6 times in a row while Juve have only managed to do it once in recent years and are yet to win it now that they've become elite again, means that Real Madrid has the edge.

Having said that, I do believe that you have been better than us since last year. Only since last year.

if were only talking about CL success does that mean AC milan / inter / chelsea / man u are equal if not better than madrid based on the past 10 years?
i guess manchester united is technically better for reaching the final more than madrid in the past 10 years?
or bayern? or is the semi's the new bar to success.

there has to be a better measure to distinguish who is a "top" club lol

Of course only since last year. 2 years ago Madrid won the CL in a really convincing fashion. Now its 2016 and the team has changed.

rincon wrote:

farfan wrote:

rincon wrote:I don't understand, how is Real higher than Atletico, who they consistently lose to (including this season) and who they are below of in the league table? and Juve, who they lost to in a 2-legged tie and since then have traded Ancelotti for Benitez and Zidane while getting inconsistent results?

So you win one tie and you think you're better than a team that reached the semis 6 times in a row , and won the damn thing in 2014 ?

We're talking about the CL here not the league , and Madrid beat Atletico in the final and eliminated them last year .

Why are we just talking about the CL? We are talking about which teams are better. If you wanna limit yourself to just the CL then, again, you lost to Juve.

All those semifinals in a row came really handy when you got eliminated last year. Winning it in 2014 means that Madrid was the best... in 2014.

We are talking about the CL because that's the standard for the elite . Was Inter more of an elite team than Milan when they were winning Serie A and milan was conquering Europe ?
Not only that, but Madrid finished above Atletico in last year's La Liga AND KO'd them out of the champions league ..

You don't get to squeeze yourself in a top 4 after ONE season . Madrid has a 6 year track record and a recent title .
Where is " top " team Juve btw ?

Donuts wrote:if were only talking about CL success does that mean AC milan / inter / chelsea / man u are equal if not better than madrid based on the past 10 years?
i guess manchester united is technically better for reaching the final more than madrid in the past 10 years?
or bayern? or is the semi's the new bar to success.

there has to be a better measure to distinguish who is a "top" club lol

We're talking about recent CL success . Lot of the teams mentioned above can't even make it to the competition anymore and are obviously not " elite " in 2016 .

I'm curious as to why  making it to the SFs year in and year out doesn't establish you as part of the elite top 4 of the competition .

I agree with farcefan on this one.

RM like Barca/BM are always favorites, pretty much guaranteed CL SF.

farfan wrote:

rincon wrote:

farfan wrote:

So you win one tie and you think you're better than a team that reached the semis 6 times in a row , and won the damn thing in 2014 ?

We're talking about the CL here not the league , and Madrid beat Atletico in the final and eliminated them last year .

Why are we just talking about the CL? We are talking about which teams are better. If you wanna limit yourself to just the CL then, again, you lost to Juve.

All those semifinals in a row came really handy when you got eliminated last year. Winning it in 2014 means that Madrid was the best... in 2014.

We are talking about the CL because that's the standard for the elite . Was Inter more of an elite team than Milan when they were winning Serie A and milan was conquering Europe ?
Not only that, but Madrid finished above Atletico in last year's La Liga AND KO'd them out of the champions league ..

You don't get to squeeze yourself in a top 4 after ONE season . Madrid has a 6 year track record and a recent title .
Where is " top " team Juve btw ?

I see now. History counts more than performance when determining who would win games .

Us, fans of teams that are having a good season, would probably look at performances when determining which one is the best team. If Barca and Atletico are above the league table, that leads me to believe that they are in fact, the better teams. But I know that the table is not all, so I look at head to head games this season, and both come out on top again. Both are also in the semifinal of the CL. How Madrid is better than Atletico I don't know.

Madrid, Juve and Bayern don't play in the same league. Juve and Bayern are winning their leagues and competing for their cups. Madrid is doing neither. Fair enough, La Liga has more competition up top. Has Madrid played them this season? No. Have Madrid's performances been great and shown consistency above them? This is subjective but I think most would say no. The most recent tie between Juve and Madrid was last year, when Juve won. Thus is my reasoning. Madrid having 10 CLs and 100 semis doesn't make them pass the ball better.

I'm not criticizing their consistency I'm talking about the best teams today.

You're also resorting to ( albeit recent ) history to make your case .

How did you establish that you're better than Madrid this season ? last time i checked you couldn't top your group and got eliminated in the second round while Madrid are in the semis .

So what if AM are above Madrid in the table? the season isn't over year. Was Dortmund more of an elite team than Bayern in that 2011-2012 season ? i don't think you'd agree with that assessment .

The irony here is that you're using last year's tie to claim that Juve is more elite than Madrid, but we can't use the fact that Madrid KO'd atletico from the CL and finished above them in the league the same year Juve defeated Real because it's " history " .

farfan wrote:You're also resorting to ( albeit recent ) history to make your case .

How did you establish that you're better than Madrid this season ? last time i checked you couldn't top your group and got eliminated in the second round while Madrid  are in the semis .  

So what if AM are above Madrid in the table?  the season isn't over year. Was Dortmund more of an elite team than Bayern in that 2011-2012 season ? i don't think you'd agree with that assessment .

The irony here is that you're using last year's tie to claim that Juve is more elite than Madrid, but we can't use the fact that Madrid KO'd atletico from the CL and finished above them  in the league  the same year Juve defeated Real because it's " history "  .

I'm only using the CL tie because it was the only time this Juve team played Madrid. Disregard the tie then and focus on this season.

-Has Madrid been playing at a level higher than Juve this year?

-Had the tie been Madrid-Juve last round would you have felt like straight favorites?

-Injuries and transitions made us suck at the beginning of the season, we lost our group and we were bad. Then the team picked itself up and turned around the season. Juve is 22 games unbeaten in the league and on course for a domestic double. Madrid is out of 1 domestic competition and 3rd in the other one. You can argue the strength of the league, yes, still dropping point to Betis, Neville's Valencia or Malaga doesn't seem so outstanding.

-Maybe now we all forgot about it since they got to semis, but most of the Madrid crew here was freaking out and bashing their players for underperforming and playing a disjointed game. Pointing out many flaws in the make up of the squad. Sacking a coach. Appointing an unproven coach. The 0-2 with Wolfsburg and all that.

What about Madrid's performances inspires such confidence?

-Has Madrid been playing at a level higher than Juve this year?  

Hard to tell . Juve doesn't have competition like Barça and Atletico and both teams dropped points at certain points this season .
Real finished first while Juve blew it against Gladbach and Sevilla, not very elitish of them .

-Had the tie been Madrid-Juve last round would you have felt like straight favorites?

Juve are capable of the upset again , doesn't mean i should rate them as more elite than Real .

What about Madrid's performances inspires such confidence?  

It's not really a case of Overconfidence but more of  a belief that a couple of Liga matches and a one CL tie doesn't make Atletico and Juve more elite  over  a team that's been in the mix for a long time and continues to make it to the SF even in a shaky season like this .
The classico was a clear indication that Real can still defeat anyone on a good night .

so two games change all the history and they are shit?

I remember similar comments on a Chelsea who dominated the Premier League last year when they were kicked out by a Psg in bad form with 10 men.
From a top team Chelsea has suddenly become shit.

In a knockout competition many things can happen and I am sure that psg can beat all the teams you mentioned, it just was not the right day.
But to say that they have become shit and are overvalued after a game is ridiculous, only shows up how some football fans are mentally limited

@Farfan

Again, how are you defining elite? I'm not talking about the club, the infrastructure or the history. Two teams play a game, performing is all takes to better or worse.

Given Madrid's performances this season, the unrest in the team, axing a coach, appointing a rookie, losing to Atletico, losing to Wolfsburg, weekly flipping on every player being either a "total scrub" or the "best in the world", you don't get the impression that Madrid is having a particularly good season.

Win the CL, win a tough semi, beat Barca to the title, or lose the CL while impressing with a top performance, overtake Atletico, either way, a team has to do SOMETHING of note to be so unquestionably better.