Is Pique a World Class CB?

farfan wrote:Not to be a raging agist, but why are we acting like Shakira is still a catch in 2022?

Yeah and Pique's new gf is 23

VivaStPauli wrote:

M99 wrote:Viva wilding with Bonnuci.

T Silva, Chiellini, Ramos, Pepe, Barzagli, VVD, Kompany, Varane, Godin all ahead of him.

What can I say I fond Bonucci cheeky AF, great lad. Might've been carried by Chiellini a bit, so maybe you have a point. Except for Pepe and Ramos lol.

Completely spaced on T Silva, maybe he takes the cake anyway. Had some ungodly seasons of control. Beast.
Really leaning towards Chiellini CB wise though.
Might be because I really like the guy.

Ramos is a proper legend and Pepe was also comfortably a top class CB. But of course you have an irrational hatred for anything Real Madrid because they continually dumped out German teams while winning their CLs.

BarcaLearning wrote:I still dont understand T.Silva, as Bill said, for Brazil hes overrated as? Maybe cos I didnt watch him much b4 Chelsea, n he isnt exactly great, not to mention PSG, just never convincing defensively. Definitely will see how he does at this WC

"didn't watch him"
"i dont understand"

log off

I would remove Varane and VVD from any discussion on Pique's generation.

Both are from the next generation in my opinion.

Also, T. Silva wasn't actually bad in any WC. Brazil lost 7-1 because he was injured for the Semi-Final.

BarcaLearning not rating him should be proof enough that he is one of the best CBs in his generation.

Ramos under no circumstance is a Legends of the game when the matter is art of defending, are you guys serious? he scored lots of goals in crucial moments ok. so what? He was good attcker for a defender , but when comes to defend pique was quite comfortably better in his prime IMO.Its like Judging Messi on his defensive skill rater than offensive one. Ramos was just physical bully and used that to defend rather than actual defensive skill. on the other hand pique despite shit of years actually had better skill in the art of defend.
I cound not remember a single Ramos defensive Master class in top games that impress me ever. There is a reason he got so many red card. He needed to do lots of foul and use aggresiveness to cover his lack of defensive skill.

Ramos is Highly Overrated when it comes to defensive skill, Because he scored so many goals people rate him very high, in this forum we have whole lots of Madrid fans they overrate him to the moon. Both Pique and Ramos are not Legendary defender in my opinion but respective club Legends.

M99 wrote:Ramos is a proper legend and Pepe was also comfortably a top class CB. But of course you have an irrational hatred for anything Real Madrid because they continually dumped out German teams while winning their CLs.

Bro I'm over 30, to me Real Madrid is a club that talks a big game and then loses to Bayern for some reason. I haven't really adjusted to the past 5ish years yet where they dunked on German clubs a lot.

Also, if you followed this forum a bit more closely, you'd notice that I have way more irrational hatred for Barca than Real.
I also think Ramos is better than Pique.
I just think both are a bit shit.

Ramos would've been sent off in every other match if his team's name wasn't big enough to bully lightweight refs.
Pique was just a permanent accident waiting to happen.

Still love Puyol. And highly respect Mascherano.

agree with beautiful football, Ramos definitely isn't a better defender than Pique

Some serious revisionist history going on here. Pique might have never belonged at the very top, but there was a period of 5ish years where he was very close to it. You need to understand that there are simply not that many ball playing CBs who could play in a high line and be paired up to a midget and still come out looking decent. Just need to look at Barca's ever totaling CB slot to see that it's a very difficult role to fill. And he managed to do it even with a highly regressed Alba and Busquets in more recent years, and a headless DM for his partner.

Is he a legend? No, surely. But he was exactly what barca needed for a long time and thats good enough for me.

Last 3 years were bad tho

Also the Ramos comparison
One of these 2 is judged as a defender, the other on outscoring Benz in pivotal CL matches

When judging whether or not a player is a legend or not or just assessing a player’s role, everything a player does on the field is taken into consideration. So in relation to Ramos, his goal scoring, his heading ability, his leadership are all in consideration as well as his defensive capabilities. This discussion started as is he a legend or not!

VivaStPauli wrote:

M99 wrote:Ramos is a proper legend and Pepe was also comfortably a top class CB. But of course you have an irrational hatred for anything Real Madrid because they continually dumped out German teams while winning their CLs.

Bro I'm over 30, to me Real Madrid is a club that talks a big game and then loses to Bayern for some reason. I haven't really adjusted to the past 5ish years yet where they dunked on German clubs a lot.

Also, if you followed this forum a bit more closely, you'd notice that I have way more irrational hatred for Barca than Real.
I also think Ramos is better than Pique.
I just think both are a bit shit.

Ramos would've been sent off in every other match if his team's name wasn't big enough to bully lightweight refs.
Pique was just a permanent accident waiting to happen.

Still love Puyol. And highly respect Mascherano.

Lmao the vitriol is so apparent. Bringing up the dead past, dont watch dont care, blaming refs

Ramos has 4 CLs with multiple clutch performance in big games. He is surely in the top 10 of his generation at the very least. Denying that is something that only hipsters and haters would do.

Is he a legend? Yes. Absolutely ridiculous to deny so.

Of course he has 4 CLs, got carried by the likes of Modric, I don't know how it would directly follow from that that he's a good CB.

Pique won the CL as well and is not a great defender.

In fact they both won more at club level than Chiellini, which is just ridiculous.

He contributed to those CL wins as much as Modric, Ronaldo and Benzema. Awfully convenient of you to think of past years and ignore last 5!

People talk a lot about his red cards etc, but little mention how he covered for Marcelo as well as his CB spot. Are you trying to say that the only CBs worth considering are the stay at home defensive specialists? If so you are ignoring the game transition to the sucess RMad, Barca and Spain’s NT have had. That is ball handling CBs that have a large offensive role as well their defensive responsibilities and able to play and advanced line. Just as Ramos playing that aggressive style, playing this offensive role comes with risks. It’s these risks, that you are voicing your criticism! But I maintain that is sacrifice for the success they have had.

I am aware of the past 5 years, I just meant they're too recent for me to have developed a dislike of Real from it.
I am just the right age to dislike tiki-taka Barca.

I’m not referring to tiki taka, nor any style in particular. Ramos, Pique, Puyol and I’m sure lots of others are ball handling CBs, who you seem to want to disregard. Yes the style at Barca and Spanish NT played tiki taca, but Madrid didn’t. But it does show thru Ramos that these ball handling CBs can play a variety of playing styles.

People are still doubting Ramos in 2022 ? He has more memorable CL performances than some of these guys have appearances.

Without a doubt the best of his generation and an all-time great, the only one who ticks all the boxes - world class ability, leadership, longevity, clutch moments and accolades. No other comes close.

Those looking at him strictly as a defender (and as a defender, he's still at worst as good as the others), are doing him an injustice. He's a complete, world-class footballer playing in defense.

Had he played with Messi at Barca (or vice-versa), they'd have 9-10 CL's or so.

VivaStPauli wrote:Of course he has 4 CLs, got carried by the likes of Modric, I don't know how it would directly follow from that that he's a good CB.

Pique won the CL as well and is not a great defender.

In fact they both won more at club level than Chiellini, which is just ridiculous.

Chiellini who played in one of the best organized defensive teams of the decade ? I'd like to see him play a high line with Marcelo, Kroos and CR by his left side. Same applies to Godin. Great players though.

Ramos has not won everything that he's won being a passenger. He was the heart of our all-time great team that destroyed Bayern every time they met, leading from the front and an absolute wall in big games.

futbol_bill wrote:I’m not referring to tiki taka, nor any style in particular. Ramos, Pique, Puyol and I’m sure lots of others are ball handling CBs, who you seem to want to disregard. Yes the style at Barca and Spanish NT played tiki taca, but Madrid didn’t. But it does show thru Ramos that these ball handling CBs can play a variety of playing styles.

Are you high?
I wrote like four times already that Puyol is a fucking legend.

And the only balls Ramos handled was when he kicked people in the nuts when the ref wasn't looking. That guy wouldn't have won anything* if his big name club didn't bully refs. Never seen him in a tournament where he didn't evade at least one straight red he should've gotten.


*His club/NT would've probably still won some stuff while he was in the shower after having been sent off.

Edit: Ramos still >>> Pique though.

Valkyrja wrote:He was the heart of our all-time great team that destroyed Bayern every time they met, leading from the front and an absolute wall in big games.

Bayern 3 - 1 Real; 21 June 2019, Ramos played
Bayern 2 - 2 Real; 1 May 2018, Ramos played

In fact, while Real won a bunch against Bayern, they "destroyed" them once: the 4 - 0, on 29th of April in 2014, which, you know, fair play to them, but that's like 8 years ago. And happened once.

VivaStPauli wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:He was the heart of our all-time great team that destroyed Bayern every time they met, leading from the front and an absolute wall in big games.

Bayern 3 - 1 Real; 21 June 2019, Ramos played
Bayern 2 - 2 Real; 1 May 2018, Ramos played

In fact, while Real won a bunch against Bayern, they "destroyed" them once: the 4 - 0, on 29th of April in 2014, which, you know, fair play to them, but that's like 8 years ago. And happened once.

What games are played in June ?

Since Bayern kicked us out at penalties in 2012 (because we had El Clasico the weekend between the CL SF matches and Jose parked the bus after 2-0), we've eliminated them from the CL 3 times - 2014, 2017 and 2018

Valkyrja wrote:What games are played in June ?

Some shitty friendly or fake cup, I assume.

Since Bayern kicked us out at penalties in 2012 (because we had El Clasico the weekend between the CL SF matches and Jose parked the bus after 2-0), we've eliminated them from the CL 3 times - 2014, 2017 and 2018

Yeah and fair play to you, but I'm not really trying to convince you that Dante is better than Ramos, am I?

VivaStPauli wrote:
Yeah and fair play to you, but I'm not really trying to convince you that Dante is better than Ramos, am I?

You've just said that to you, as a 30 sth yo, Real Madrid is a club that talks a big game and then loses to Bayern for some reason.

We haven't lost to Bayern in 10 years dude. Kicked them out of CL 3 times in the meantime.

Valkyrja wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:
Yeah and fair play to you, but I'm not really trying to convince you that Dante is better than Ramos, am I?

You've just said that to you, as a 30 sth yo, Real Madrid is a club that talks a big game and then loses to Bayern for some reason.

We haven't lost to Bayern in 10 years dude. Kicked them out of CL 3 times in the meantime.

Yeah I know.
Madrid is on a roll.
Great team for a decade now.

I said that in reply to someone who said I was biased against Real, which I'm not. At my age I'm biased against Barca. If anything. Obviously I'm never biased at all.

My point is I'm in that age group, where I don't really think of Real as a team that Bayern can't beat. Honestly, I'm more in that age group where I'm still vaguely afraid of Mou's Inter.

Ramos is definitely a legend. Doubting him and saying he got carried by Modric and co is as ignorant and lazy as that Souness who said Casemiro got carried by Modric and Kroos.

Ramos had a bigger influence than Modric and Ronaldo in two of the four CLs that he won. Especially LaDecima.

Yes, he was hot-headed but that's what made him such a great captain. I wish he was still with us if not for his leadership abilities alone. Benzema and Modric are not leaders like Ramos was and we could have done with his leadership to protect young Vini.

At Madrid you play a different way. Many games as a CB you are left alone against 4 attackers on counters because that's how we've always played. Both Pepe and Ramos are legends of the game. Ramos one of the best as he did it at the top for alot longer than Pepe but as a pure defender I rate Pepe higher.

Pique is a legend for his club but never overall in his generation. He is Barca's Varane who rode on Puyol's coat tail in Barca's most successful period.

Glad to see Viva still hating on things Ramos and sometimes Madrid.

On the topic of Ramos, I still don't think he belongs in the category of "Legends of the game" but history is going to be kind to him as we'll eventually just see the 4 time CL, 2 Euros and a WC smashed in the middle while being, whatever you might think, an essential part in all of those winning campaigns.

And more than likely, the same would be applied for Pique.

Viva sounding like Harmonica rambling about refs carrying Real.

And bringing up a draw and pre-season friendly, thats an all new level of copium

Ramos defending was not drastically worse than Pique in fact i prefer Ramos style tbh, more agressive, better tackler, better in the air, trustworthy in desperate situations

Ramos legacy is much higher than Pique be it only for his clutch goals he had more direct influence on his own incredible palmares. Soon enough Pique's edge in defensive IQ or whatever will be forgotten then achievements and charisma will prevail. Nobody in 10 years be like, you remember Barca in 2015 lead by Pique the big lockdown nobody could pass by him ?? they had a few decent guys in attack and midfield as well

you're not wrong @Warrior, but still doesn't change the fact that Pique was a better overall defender