Is Pique a World Class CB?

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Post by Cruijf Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:36 am

The second leg was already played, Chelsea is out.

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Post by Lucifer Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:54 am

guest_07 wrote:i found out that this thread is still alive

is there any chance that chelsea can make a comeback against psg in this cl campaign?

Am afraid they can't. We can bet if u want though.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:13 pm

Are you guys serious about Pique? I thought you were just baiting Free. Barca fans have seen Pique be far from WC, so you should trust us when we say that Pique has turned himself around in the last 2 years.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:40 pm

farfan wrote:Gotta love the " Piqué plays in the best team in the world  therefore he can't be shit " argument  Laughing
Just like Roque Junior wasn't a shit defender when he started in a world cup final with Brazil AND a CL final with Milan the following year ? hmm  
Piqué is a garbage defender and will get torn to shreds  every week if wasn't playing in a team that monopolizes possession , presses opponents into oblivion, and accentuates his few qualities while masking  his endless flaws  .


If it's so easy why can't everyone do it?  This argument is just as moronic as the one you are claiming against.

The if and buts argument is hilarious, fact is he does play for a big team and for good reason.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:00 pm

I think the right answer lies somewhere between the two. Piqué is one of the best defenders in the world, but as a defender, your job gets easier when everybody around you helps you defend.

Imagine if he was at Madrid where only 6 players defend and your LB doesn't even bother to track back, would he be as solid as he is now?

There's a reason guys like Ramos, Pepe and Varane seem to struggle very often not to leak goals.

I don't agree with those who say that Piqué is "a garbage defender". That couldn't be more wrong. Garbage defenders don't get to start at Barça. But I do however agree that Barça's style makes their CBs' job easier.
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Post by Casciavit Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:13 pm

farfan wrote:Gotta love the " Piqué plays in the best team in the world  therefore he can't be shit " argument  Laughing
Just like Roque Junior wasn't a shit defender when he started in a world cup final with Brazil AND a CL final with Milan the following year ? hmm  
Piqué is a garbage defender and will get torn to shreds  every week if wasn't playing in a team that monopolizes possession , presses opponents into oblivion, and accentuates his few qualities while masking  his endless flaws  .


What are his endless flaws? Please do say. He isn't perfect by any means, but he isn't some scrub. Why do you act as if he's a 2nd division quality player?
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Post by rincon Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:39 pm

He definitely isn't a scrub. Like BC says, he came a long way these past few years. Its normal for center backs, who doesn't get better closer to 30?

I dont think he is world class though, a level below maybe.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:43 pm

Now this has actually been made into a thread we can actually discuss this....

It depends how you define World Class tbh, i think he is but only because i struggle to think of many who are better there are not many outstanding candidates.

Also i don't want to hear the team makes it easy for him to defend crap either. All good teams protect their defense, they just do it differently to others and defending is a team orientated thing anyway.

Just as an example, before Simeone came to Atletico and sorted them out Godin looked look like complete crap. Now he's widely recognised as one of the best CBs in the world.
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Post by farfan Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:47 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
farfan wrote:Gotta love the " Piqué plays in the best team in the world  therefore he can't be shit " argument  Laughing
Just like Roque Junior wasn't a shit defender when he started in a world cup final with Brazil AND a CL final with Milan the following year ? hmm  
Piqué is a garbage defender and will get torn to shreds  every week if wasn't playing in a team that monopolizes possession , presses opponents into oblivion, and accentuates his few qualities while masking  his endless flaws  .


If it's so easy why can't everyone do it?  This argument is just as moronic as the one you are claiming against.

The if and buts argument is hilarious, fact is he does play for a big team and for good reason.

I've seen you use the " Duh , scrub x is only doing great because he's playing in team y " narrative before , so don't act like you're above resorting to these type of arguments. Laughing
He does have decent ball control and passing compared to your average CB so he fits well in Barça in that regard while other defenders might struggle with that aspect of the game .

" If it's so easy why can't everyone do it? " It's not like they didn't win a CL final with Yaya starting as a CB Laughing .
Is Alba a good defender too ?
Is Valdes the greatest GK in La Liga history because of his countless Zamora trophies ?

While i'm definitely exaggerating here, why is it so improbable to think that a team could carry a mediocre individual and help him punch above his weight ? I watched France win a World Cup with Guivarc'h starting the whole tournament..

Garbage defenders don't get to start at Barça

Oleguer started for them when they won the CL in 2006 .hmm
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Post by rincon Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:48 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Now this has actually been made into a thread we can actually discuss this....

It depends how you define World Class tbh, i think he is but only because i struggle to think of many who are better there are not many outstanding candidates.

Also i don't want to hear the team makes it easy for him to defend crap either. All good teams protect their defense, they just do it differently to others and defending is a team orientated thing anyway.

Just as an example, before Simeone came to Atletico and sorted them out Godin looked look like complete crap. Now he's widely recognised as one of the best CBs in the world.


Yeah being world class or not depends on how many players we put in, he'll surely be in the discussion depending on the size of that list.

But for example, who would you take, Pique or Bonucci?

Very similar style of CB but I really would pick Bonucci over him. I definitely have bias but I truly see him as rich man's Pique. Then you have other style of defenders, more physical, better positioning, etc. So you get a few in there.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:55 pm

Yeah because Yaya doing it for one game is the same as Pique doing it for his entire Barca career except for a couple of seasons where he struggled to cope without the leadership of Puyol. Rolling Eyes

And no Alba isn't a good defender, in fact he's an awful one but Pique doesn't get wrecked hardly at all like he does.

Pique was the one who would constantly mark CR out of the game in Clasico's in his initial run before the aforementioned struggles without Puyol and he's back to that level.

This whole Barca protect him stuff is complete bollocks anyway, there's plenty of occasions where he get's isolated and has to deal with danger and he deals with it very well.

If it was easy as you'd claim then they would just pick kids off the street and pay them minimum wage. Laughing Besides Juventus don't protect their defenders in the same way? Of course they do, how much defending do you see the likes of Bonucci, Barzagli and Chiellini actually do? very minimal and it's the same with any great team.

It's just a shit excuse to discredit defenders who are good at what they do because quite frankly you don't like the fact he's good and look for reasons to claim he's shit without any evidence to back it up. Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:57 pm

Of course.

/thread
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:00 pm

In fairness, i have done the same to discredit Boateng so don't worry about it Farcefan :wub:
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Post by farfan Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:03 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:In fairness, i have done the same to discredit Boateng so don't worry about it Farcefan :wub:

I know, and i was expecting some support from you when i posted that . Laughing
Forgot you're a Barça fanboy . :facepalm:
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:06 pm

Nothing to do with that Laughing

I think Rakitic is bang average for example and Alba is shite.
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Post by Cruijf Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:51 pm

Bang average at what? His positioning, work rate, and physicality for example are all amazing and Barca wouldn't be the same without them.
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Post by Lucifer Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:57 pm

Rakitic isn't average if u ask me. Not excellent either. Know the role and do it sufficiently good type of player. He is "Clerk" of football imo.

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Post by CBarca Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:29 pm

Pique has in the past been pretty poor but he's no longer that player.

Has been world class for a while now
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Post by Kaladin Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:34 pm







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Post by FennecFox7 Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:32 pm

Showcasing a players own goals doesn't show the quality of a player at all..
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Post by El Blanco Madridista Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:30 am

Pique has had his bad moments, but when in form, it's nearly impossible not to mention him among the world's best CBs.

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Post by titosantill Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:43 am

for the era we're in, yes. you can't mention top 10 CBs without him. its not much of a compliment though when you look at his contemporaries. he is a good center back for barcelona, just like valdes was a good goalie for them...yes, whether anyone likes it or not, a lot of their flaws or in-capacities are masked, but as long as we're not stretching and saying they're all time greats, its all right. i remember in his second year in la liga when guardiola had his midfield/possession fetish, and the spanish media went as far as comparing pique to beckenbauer, 'piquenbauer', remember that? that was a huge stretch, the guy was hardly ever tested. he's good for that system. btw very few defenders presently impress me, .....and NO, i don't care what fifpro says, ramos, kompany, pique are NOT among them
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:25 am

I don't agree that players are "good" for a system so I'll have to disagree. If you're good, you're good. end of.
It was the same thing when Xavi was being called a system player Laughing betch, he IS the system Laughing
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Post by zenmaster Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:35 am

Good player , he was ... passed his prime IMO. World class definitely not.

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Post by Based Bonera Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:34 am

Not sure about world class but hes deff in the top 3-5 list. Not a lot of good defenders left. Thiago silva is still probably the best but even he isnt as good as he used to be.


Last edited by Based Bonera on Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by titosantill Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:50 am

FennecFox7 wrote:I don't agree that players are "good" for a system so I'll have to disagree. If you're good, you're good. end of.
It was the same thing when Xavi was being called a system player Laughing betch, he IS the system Laughing


pique valdes etc are not xavi. i agree with everything bonera mentioned; even though i'm not too big a fan of silva
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